Stratos comes alive

[Matt No VAT]

Today has been the best day so far of 2002 - because my now very much alive Hawk Stratos HF3000 returned to my house rather than being at Auto Integrale in Reading.

I am extremely pleased with the car as its now a runner, granted there are a few teething problems but nothing too major.

Today has mainly been clearing out the interior and making a list of everything that needs to be sorted out, but every so often I fire her up just to listen to the engine/exhaust note..... needless to say I quickly have a cheesey grin on my face once I have turned the key.

The biggest issue is water circulation... or lack of it - I recall seeing on someones car or a pic that was posted on here one of the large water pipes that comes thru the centre tunnel from the radiator had a T piece off of it, mine does not have this and I'm thinking that this is why that water is not circulation properly. Can anyone throw any light on this for me? Where does this T piece route to?

The other issue is that the oil temp. and oil pressure guages seem to be working in a very strange way - they did look at it briefly but I said I would take the car home and resolve it myself, granted I have not had a chance to log the symptoms rather I was just told that the guages seemed to be working backwards?? Are there any known issues after such a conversion or am I looking at a wiring issue?

To everyone I met at Abingdon, regards to all and thanks to David for organsing the Stratos element. I had an excellent day )apart from being on-call) My apologies for not saying thanks earlier but life has been utter chaos since the builders arrived, as the extension goes up the bank balance has gone down!! Work, Cars and sleep...thats all there is at the moment.

[Stratos]

Matt,

Congratulations on getting the car back, and running.

Soon you'll be whizzing around in it, going to Stratos meetings, etc, etc - you're gonna luv it!!!


When you say lack of circulation what do you mean? Are you getting water through to the radiator?

Has the engine been bled at the 14mm bolt on top of the thermostat?

Has the radiator been bled?

[rutthenut]

I'd have thought that any T-piece was probably for the heater take-off, although that may not be the most efficient route if you want the heater matrix to warm up before the thermostat has opened for main radiator flow.

I would suggest comparing the pipework routing with that of the standard Beta, as I think it should work out the same - except for the extra five foot length to the radiator!

There had been reports in the club some time ago where people had found the Beta engine sometimes overheating when in traffic, which was apparently due to the water pump not having quite enough 'oomph' to circulate the water properly over the extra pipe run when being used at tickover. It seemed that just raising the tickover slightly would solve that problem on those engines. But this is all from comments I recall, it's not something I ever had to look into (the V6 seems to pump just fine at low revs).

Another consideration is that the water pipes through the spine have often been installed with a small diameter bore, so restricting water flow that bit more. Even so, I'm sure plenty of the cars have been built in this way and have continued running fine for years.

Obvious things to check are that the thermostat does get to open (when the water has heated up) and that there are no air locks, which requires bleeding and coaxing air out of the system at both front and rear of the car.

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

Sorry - I haven't got any helpful suggestions regarding water flow. Congtats on getting your car back though.

John B.

[Matt No VAT]

The problem seems to be that the water in the main block gets warm/hot and it does flow to the radiator only not very quickly.

As this is the first experience of Alfa V6's I think the first thing I'll do is to ensure the system is bled properly and make sure there are no airlocks... are the V6's prone to airlocks when in a HAwk/other kit?

Luckily, I have a Beta Coupe in my garage so I'll compare the two sysems and go from there.

Fingers crossed its an airlock!!

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Matt No VAT
The problem seems to be that the water in the main block gets warm/hot and it does flow to the radiator only not very quickly.

As this is the first experience of Alfa V6's I think the first thing I'll do is to ensure the system is bled properly and make sure there are no airlocks... are the V6's prone to airlocks when in a Hawk/other kit?

I didn't think there were any particular problems, other than those caused by the radiator being so far from the engine and needing to be bled at 'both ends' of the system - from the radiator top as well as the main hose/header tank area.

Matt, which engine does your kit have? I thought it was a four-pot at the moment but maybe that's just confusion with your experience of Betas and Deltas.


The standard (12-valve) Alfa V6 pipework does route some of the coolant through the header tank, which helps to bleed the system as it runs. From memory, the heater return pipe has a T-piece somewhere 'above the gearbox', which connects to the side of the block and also continues up to the throttle body. This benefits (?) from being heated, with the flow then continuing into the header tank.

The other connection to the header tank goes into the top of one of the main pipes going to (or from) the radiator. I'm not sure right now which way the water flows in this pipe, but I think it is from the thermostat housing and on towards the radiator - but it could be the return pipe, so don't trust that statement!

I don't have a heater on my car, but do have a pipe as a take-off from one of the radiator pipes, which goes through a valve to the return pipe. The intention was to fit a heater into the circuit at this point at some time in the future (that was six or seven years ago, ahem). I think this setup does/did mirror that of the original car, but I have probably explained it in reverse, as the heater should get hot water before waiting for the thermostat to open, so what I've described as a return pipe may well be a feed pipe for the heater, joining the radiator return pipe.

I am not entirely sure, from memory, which way the water flows throughout all of these pipes, and would like a schematic diagram of this - which is what I suppose you would like to see right now.

Have you got a heater installation in your system? And if so, does it have it's own pipework or is it simply plumbed 'in parallel' with the radiator? Also, do you have pipework that runs from the 'back' of the engine through the throttle body and into the header tank, and then back to one of the main pipes?

Other, more simple, consideration - what diameter are the pipes that run through the centre spine of the car? And have you bled the system from the top of the radiator as well as at the engine?

[Matt No VAT]

My car has the V6 12v engine installed now.

I think, based on your description and explanation, the issue is probably down to an airlock somewhere in the system. I think the system may have just been flooded with water and then fired up, after bleeding the system at just the rear end rather than also at the radiator or vice versa.

My car doesn't have a heater fitted, I may well choose the "Rut the Nut method" and plan for one in the "Ahem" near future ;~)

I'll see how I get on with those two large pipes running thru the centre section for heating the interior (which must from memory are approx 25mm diameter)

Thanks for your help

[rutthenut]

Personally, I haven't found much need for a heater in my Strat anyway. Maybe because I've got enough of my own insulation:eek:

There is plenty of heat soak through my ally rear bulkhead, since I have a lack of insulation in the car, so it gets warm enough once it has been running for a while. And I get hot air from the radiator as that comes through the front bulkhead at the steering column aperture - I never did get to seal that properly either!

Having to scrape ice off the inside of the screen wasn't too great though, so I did buy a cheapy 12-volt electric fan/heater that I would fit on the dash when needed, at least prior to the start of a wet race when the car would always steam up. Not sure it would comply with the SVA rule about having a working demister, but it worked for me!