Yellow 308 HF

[T910GAL]

I recently purchased the yellow 308 powered
lancia replica that some of you have mentioning. It is now located in Franklin, PA.
Not being the most familiar with these, can anyone tell me more about it.
On the driver side, it has a tag stating a manufacturing date of
09-75 and an id # of 2089. Is this how the Hawk replicas are tagged?
I was told that the frame may be original, but of course everything else updated etc. It has the ferrarri 308 engine and is set up for the track, but is drivable (with the exception of learning how to get in and out of it without hitting my head!)
All of you out there that are experts, please help show me the light and tell me anything else on the car.
Thanks to everyone in advance.

[guy mayers]

If it's left hand drive, right foot into the footwell, left hand on the rocker panel (sill to the British!), right forearm on the windscreen column, left foot into the footwell, right hand onto the steering wheel and drop your bum into the seat! Easy!
The manufacturing date of 09-75 could be the age of the original donor car? Hawk cars were formerly known as Transformers, mine has a chassis number from of 8805048 which breaks down as a chassis built in 1988 in the month of May (05) and chassis number 48. Is the chassis number you quoted complete? You should be able to find it in 2 places. The first is on the brake booster mount under the nose panel, stamped on the radiator side, and the second place is on the back of the rear chassis, left side, next to the removable section.
Having seen the pictures in teh link posted by John, the car doesn't have a booster - look just above the mounting bolts securing the twin brake master cylinders on the balance bar side of the bracket!

[x19er]

Here is an old ad for the car when it was in Canada:

http://www.priceofhistoys.com/showroom/stratos/

$22,000 US at the time. I tried to buy it back then but was too late.

John

[T910GAL]

I will definatley have to work on getting into the car, but your tips are helpful!
I looked near the brake cylinders and it is stamped SPY 90 10 78
on the other side of the car, basically same location, there is another bronze or copper take that is riveted into the frame that just says lanci stratos, and the same 2089 number.
Does this make any sense to anyone??
Thanks!

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by T910GAL
I looked near the brake cylinders and it is stamped SPY 90 10 78 on the other side of the car, basically same location, there is another bronze or copper take that is riveted into the frame that just says lanci stratos, and the same 2089 number.

That would seem to indicate that the car has a 'Spyder' chassis, which was one of the sub-contractors used by Transformer. I don't know how the other numbers are decoded though, although someone else in here is likely to be able to help with that - or else contact Gerry Hawkridge via email and he will no doubt give you the brief run-down of that VIN number.

If there is a further plate stating that the car is a Lancia Stratos, that is an add-on by a previous owner, as these are not provided by the kit manufacturers but can be bought from other suppliers and stamped with your own vehicle details.

[mogul_x]

The serial number on your car is SPY901078. It looks like you might be missing a number compared to other serial numbers I've seen. I'd have expected SPY9010078, or perhaps SPY9001078

As John said, SPY means the chassis was assembled by Spyder Engineering, one of Hawk Cars' subcontractors. 9010 means the car was built in October 1990. if it was 9001, it would be January 1990. 078 would be the chassis number in that batch.

The serial number are different on the newer models. Oddly enough, the chassis number starts over again when Hawk cars starts a new batch. That might coincide with a switch in subcontractor, or when a new design is adopted.

For example, my car's complete serial number is: HAWKSHSSHF0111040

where:
HAWK is the kit manufacturer
SH SS are the welder's initials
HF is the model
01 is the year of manufacture
11 is the month
040 is the number in batch.

As an aside, which county are you in? Pennsylvania has four Frankins, and I was trying to figure out how close to you I am.

[colin artus]

Ocober 1990 means that this chassis was one of the last from Spyder before production was moved to Safety Devices in Feb '91. The last number is the consecutive chassis number from that subcontractor. So the first Safety Devices chassis should have ended 001.The Spyder Chassis are about 25kg lighter than later ones as the rear box sections are made from folded 16g steel rather than erw 14g. Also the cage tubing has a smaller od.

Colin

[T910GAL]

Here are some pictures of all of tags/id numbers that everyone has mentioned. The one that is stamped still confuses the issue since it is not exactly like what others are describing, but still does not rule out a typo. Maybe some will confirm a typo or recognize this stamp. The others could have been added at any time like someone else mentioned.
The car is now located in Franklin, PA. The town that is approx 1.5 hours north of Pittsburgh, 1 hour from Youngstown Ohio.
Yes, in very rural PA.

But with this car, and i will admit i am not very well versed with this car ,what is a fair value. The blunt question of the day is if i paid the approx $40K US for this car, did i get taken to the cleaners or is this a decent price.
The engine was completely rebuilt after its purchase from Canada to the excess of over $25K US alone. (yes had to see the receipts as well to believe.) There were something wrong with one of the pistons, and a whole new block was made (not sure of the story but do have receipts.)

If anyone would like to look at it if they are in the area, please feel free to.
I can definaltey use the knowledge gained from people that have more experience than i do.
Thanks

[guy mayers]

From the chassis number quoted I would guess that it means the chassis was made in January 1990 and is number 078 which does fall into line with mine being May 1988 number 048, this would mean a production rate of 2 cars a month, not unlikely given the enthusiasm that it created on it's launch 3 years before I got mine.
Guy

[mogul_x]

Well, it appears that there are no letters missing from you serial number. That's definitely it. Maybe Spyder Engineering didn't always stamp the frame with a 3-digit "in batch" number. (i.e. 78 instead of 078) We are talking about cottage industry parts, here, so I wouldn't be surprised by a little variation.

As for the $40K price tag.... It's not the deal of a lifetime, but it's definitely a fair price for the car on this side of the Atlantic. Let me put it this way - starting from scratch with a brand new kit, you'd have an extremely difficult time building a copy of this car for less than you paid for it. And you've saved yourself many hundreds of hours of labor.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm building my car around the much cheaper Alfa Romeo v-6, and I expect to spend at least $35,000 by the time I'm finished. I think you made out OK, as long as that Ferrari mill is healthy.

[guy mayers]

With second hand cars the ONLY real way to assess it's value is by what you are willing to pay for it. Serial production cars are easy to value - just buy the book or walk around the forecourts but these low volume cars are another thing altogether! At the end of the day the quality of the build, specification and paint finish are critical. Building a car in the UK from Hawk Cars using Alfa V6 power is going to take the best part of £20,000 and that's doing the build yourself. The amount of time sourcing some parts can be unbeleivable or you could just fall lucky or just pay what's being asked for it at the time! There are a few cars built with Ferrari units and those with the Dino have tended to be the most valuable BUT a lot of people are put off for the same reason! The Alfa has slightly better power, more torque, more reliability and is disposable when complete cars can be bought for £500!
At the end of the day you pays your money and you takes your choice - no one forces you to fulfil a dream! Just sit back and enjoy it! Oh - and join the club!!
Guy

[Zarathustra]

Tom,
You didn't get taken at all in today's market. An average Stratos in the US is about $80-90K. (MotorCar Gallery just sold two in that range.) Cars with special competion parts could be somewhat more, if the car is in good shape. I know of one that fetched $130K. Then there are the rats... I vaguely remember a beat, orange racer selling for about $47K at auction about 5 years ago.
For a nice replica with a 308 engine you got a great deal! And it's a lot quicker than a stock Stratos!

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

If memory serves, the fellow that bought the car for $22K soon had engine problems and ended up paying quite a lot more to get the car fixed up. If the engine is in good shape (didn't someone say it was), then you got a fair deal.

Congrats on the purchase & welcome to the addiction erm. I mean club.

John B.


PS - Hi everyone. Sorry I haven't been around much lateley - just really busy with work at the moment.