SVA questions

[CorseChris]

Not sure how well this will work, but I'll give it a go!

The idea is to start a thread on SVA questions/worries in general that might turn into a useful reference.

If possible, can we avoid speculation and stick to personal experience of actual test results please? These seem to vary wildly enough as it is....

We already have some great threads on specific topics that have spread somewhat but I just thought it might be easier to find things if they are all in one place. I realise that this won't be of interest to a lot of people so apologies in advance!

Can I start things rolling by asking what the experiences have been regarding the bonnet louver? Just dawned on me that it might come under the ruling on return edges??? I am using the Hawk components on my car by the way.

TIA

[STR470S]

Chris,

My Transformer HF2000 went through SVA at Gillingham, Kent in April ‘02. Although it failed first time on a few minor points, I was surprised just how easy it was.
The car was tested unpainted, minus rear and roof spoilers and no roof vent. If rear spoiler is fitted, then mirrors have to be raised up on blocks. Failure points were:-

Fuel tanks weren’t full.
No sealing on fuel tank caps.
Rear edge where spoiler fits was too sharp.
No handbrake warning light on dash.
Front wishbone fixings exposed inside cabin – just covered with foam on re-test.

There was no mention of the return edges on the front louvers. Other points to be aware of are :- must have reversing and rear fog light, screw heads within lights should be filled with silicon, E marked glass front and rear, exhaust tail edges need to be rounded.

I didn’t have any emission tests, Beta 2000, but had to go with a letter from Fiat UK proving when engine was built – albeit the engine now having a turbo and fuel injection!!

Design weights I used on the application form were Axle 1 = 475KG, Axle 2 = 629KG, Axle 3 N/A and Gross weight 1104KG. Can’t confirm these are spot on for a Beta engine Transformer, but these are the figures on the Certificate they issued.

As other people have said, it really is the luck of the draw on the test centre you use, the examiner on the day and if they have tested one before!!

Hope the info helps.

Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris,

Design weights look to be analogous to GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) here in the 'States. These have to add up to the gross vehicle weight, which is supposed to be the kerb weight of the car fully fueled, plus passengers, plus the rated cargo capacity.

If you have a car that weighs 900 kg, and you add 100 kg for each passenger (I think its 250 pounds per person in the US), and assume another 50 kg (for arguments sake) in luggage, the Gross wieght would be 1150 kg.

I have no idea how much you can safely put in the boot of a Stratos. Maybe it's more than 50kg.

Also, I'll delete this post if it's off topic.

[CorseChris]

Chris,

That's all useful experience - thank you. The screw heads filled with silicone is a suprise I must say. That sounds like one of the more stupid and nit-picking interpretations to me. If anyone is hit by the light fitting hard enough to injure themselves with the screwhead then I suspect there may be other issues of more import. Ho hum - I have been warned!

I should be OK with rear spoiler and mirrors as I am using Fiat Barchetta mirrors on tall uprights.

Front wishbone bolthead - I had reckoned on convering mine with foam and carpet but thanks for the warning in case I don't get it trimmed before the SVA.

The weights are useful as well as I don't have any for my Corse.

The letter from FIAT is a top tip. How did you go about getting yours from them?

Scott,

I think you are right. My problem is as I just mentioned, I don't know what figures I should be using and if the wrong ones are quoted, the brake tests can be problematic as the figures are used in the test calculations.


Keep 'em coming folks!

[Sando]

Great stuff!

Chris D.
How did you take it with regard to the headlights? Fixed up or operating? Did they check the radus of edges when the lights were up? - mine are a doubtful but they've been painted so I don't want go sanding them down if I can help it....could always silicon something on though I suppose..........what a game this is???

With regard to the Axle weights, were they from Hawk?

How did you get on with the brake test with these figures and are you running the standart Fiat / Beta setup?

How did you go on with the speedo accuracy? what set up are you using?

Any tips on the fuel cap seals what did you use? - I've gone for some B&Q big nylon plumbing (sink waste seals I think) washers that with slight trimming will do the job.

sorry to ask all at once, but I've been saving them up!!!!

Thanks for the pointers all very useful.
cheers
Rob:cool:

[rutthenut]

There are discussions on the PistonHeads site about SVA tests.

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?f=30&t=52153

Main points covered here are about testing centres, MOTs, and the legality or otherwise of driving the car to and from the different tests.

One major point to note was the claim that the inspectors at Southampton seem to very 'anti kit car', if anyone is in that area...

[STR470S]

Chris C,
I spoke to a chap called Tim Speechly (Homologation Manager),at Fiat UK, 266 Bath Road, Slough, phone no. 01753 511431. If you quote the chassis/engine no. of the donor, he can lookup the date of manufacture.

Andy,
I think 2 or 3” blocks should do the trick, just enough so that the rear spoiler doesn’t obscure any of the rear view. You might have to move them outwards as well, depends on the mirror.

Rob,
Lights were fully functional, i.e weren’t fixed in the upright position. I think this helped me, in that they went round doing all the external radius checks first, but when it came to checking the lights, they didn’t appear to check the edges of the pods!!. However, I do remember spending hours filling and sanding the top of the pods to get some shape into them, i.e. same curve as the body, so the edges are fairly rounded anyway. As you say, you may get away with some sort of edging strip if they pick up on it

The axle weights I calculated from Chapter 21 of SVA inspection manual. It gives an example vehicle and I just substituted the kerb weight, which I think I got from Chris Smith who had recently SVA’d a V6. I used 954KG, which was probably a little on the heavy side for a Beta, probably should have been closer to 900KGs, and a front/rear weight distribution of 45/55. As you say the figures are used to determine braking efficiency, so couldn’t of been too far out as that is what they issued on the certificate – maybe they couldn’t be bothered to work it out on the day!! May be somebody else out there that has had a Beta engine car go through SVA could post the axle weights from their certificate.

The brakes are 4-pot calipers, separate handbrake caliper with no servo and bias adjustment (see pic in gallery). Bias was locked so that fronts would just lock first. No problem with the brake test, even though the pads weren’t really bedded in yet.

Fiat 124 speedo was sent off to Speedy Cables for calibration and a Certificate of Accuracy was returned. Just required chassis number, height of rear hub centre to ground (12.84 inches in my case) and number of rotations of speedo cable to 6 revolutions of the rear wheel (11). At the time the Gillingham test centre couldn’t test speedo accuracy, hence the certificate, but I think they can now.

Fuel cap seals - I just used some thick gasket material in the top of the cap. Plastic seals sound like a good idea, but might just want to leave one in some petrol to check it doesn’t go all soft.

Keep ‘em coming and I’ll try and help!!

Chris

[Sando]

Originally posted by STR470S

....May be somebody else out there that has had a Beta engine car go through SVA could post the axle weights ......

Chris

Hiya
Anyone got any other figures they have used for a Hawk - V6 or beta? Not that I don't trust your figures Chris, I just don't have 4 pots and bias brakes::D
I've emailed Gerry. but he's not replied.

I'ts holding me up getting my form sent in and a date to aim for. That'll make me pull my finger out !

I'll probably give Chris Smith a ring too, I'm sure he'll know.

Thanks
Rob:cool:

[Arthur]

Well, here we go.

This for a CorseI with group 4 rears running on 205 fronts and 225 rears, V6 12V lump, fire extinguisher under the front. Brake bias adjuster in cabin.
Tested at heywood, Manchester, passing 2nd attempt Jan 20th 2000.

So, my photocopy of the MAC gives Design Weight front axle 360 Kg, design weight rear axle 540 Kg. Gross weight 900 Kg.
Now forget that, you'll never see those figures again.
The brake test sheet says :-
Running weight with driver - front axle - 418Kg, rear axle 646 Kg
Kerb weight no driver - front axle 369, rear axle 599
Design axle weight front - 410 Kg
Design axle weight rear - 700 Kg
Design gross weight 1150 Kg.
Down the bottom of the same sheet, we get Laden weight Calculations - Front axle calculated weight - 436.1 Kg
Rear axle calculated weight - 681.9 Kg
Gross calculated weight - 1118 Kg.

I shouldn't worry about weights, its not a test, I just quoted Hugh Carson's best guess, which was the 360/540 Kg, and the guy at Heywood ignored them, weighed the car, added a guess for driver, passenger, fuel and luggage, and that was that.

Now, when I did mine, the full force of the internal radii stuff was still to come into effect, but the guy did point out a couple of things, like exposed bolt heads for the front suspension, and the brackets for the door bars, which would have failed under the full regs. But, roll cage foam formed or laminated would be just fine to cover these, and that's all you need. Plus you only need them once - they can come off after, cos once you've got the MAC, its back to "construction and use" regulations, and forget the rest, otherwise there would not be a legal road rally vehicle in existence.

Engine age - I claimed mine was 1983. No-one cared one way or the other (I believe in fact its 1993, but I can't remember whether its a 3 in a circle or a 3 in a diamond, and as the casting mark is buried under the starter motor, I won't be looking any time soon). The only reason for this is emissions regs, and remember here you get the oldest component - if the car itself is older then 199 whatever, then that's the emissions rules you use. If the engine is that age, again, that's the emissions rules you work to.

Bonnet louvres were not mentioned.
Exhaust - outlet only needs to be radiused if it's outside the floor line of the vehicle, as measured using that 30 degree (I think) cone. The cone gets pushed to the vehicle, establishing a line from the point at which it comes into contact with the bodywork, and the inside edge of the cone on the floor is the line. Anything protruding beyond the line has to be radiused.

I have Fiat Barchetta (electric) mirrors. I hacked the minimum off the pillar bases to get the fit to bodywork. No problems. In fact, I think I only needed the driver's side wing mirror to be legal on the SVA test stand - the car was surprisingly close to being legal (considering the total lack of rear 3/4 vision, I still find this hard to believe). Plus they are S-marked, and have the 10-kilo breakaway loading.

Now, you may drive your vehicle to and from the test station (with bona fide appointment) provided you have insurance. It will have no number plates, it isn't registered, so can't be taxed, and will probably be on temporary insurance on the chassis number. No matter, its still legal.
Provided the SVA station don't impound it as being dangerous, if they fail it you can legally drive it to and from a repairer to address the failings, then back and home from the SVA station again.
There is no directive concerning which station you have to use. Scottish borders peeps could go to Cornwwall quite legally.

Brakes - were just legal, having covered some 30 miles in total to the test station, and in no way bedded in. But they made it.
Tester required - his interpretation - that with the adjuster full front, I had sufficient rear brake capacity, and with the adjuster full rear, I had sufficient front capacity. So that's what we did.

My headlamps popped up. Only point was the beam aim, which he allowed me to adjust on his jig, and that only more-or-less - he let me take it away on a promise I'd get it set-up.

Had to add a quantity of cable ties to restrain wire bundles to his satisfaction.

Couple of suspension locknuts came loose on the short drive - beware a paint coat on the locking faces of nuts etc.

The locknuts on the Tilton brake box backplate were not quite down to the last thread on the studs - failed. Had to pull the box off, unscrew the studs 2 threads, and refit them so the the nuts had full depth thread. Questions / observations to Heywood, please, not me.

Plastic side windows - not at any price. So don't have them fitted when you turn up.

Seat mountings flexing - I put a 25mm stainless angle iron under the rear bolts of both driver and passenger seat - they're still there. Did OK, in that there is less flex, but I wasn't aware of any flex when in the seat, and the belts would restrain it and me anyway, so I'm not to sure of that, other than to prevent totally unsafe fitments.

Rear indicator repeater - had to fit one. Not visible 5 degrees behind and 5 degrees below the car.

Brake lines, Aeroquip etc. They failed me on having a fitting which contained a ferrule. Been discussed elsewhere, but the regs do say you can't have a ferrule, specifically to prevent anyone using plumbing pipe and olives. I changes the ones you could see, left the rest, passed no probs next time round (we wouldn't have failed it first time, they said).

All my glass - I should say "both my glass" were S-marked. Front screen is the Finnish original only Stratos part on the car. Rear flat glass had an S mark as well - no idea where Hugh got this from.

All the lights are marked - but I got all this in the lighting pack from Hugh. Front side lights and indicators are Renault, headlamps Cibie standard inserts, rears - no idea to be honest.

And that was that.

Oh yes, speedo - if you need it calibrating during test, this will severely limit your choice of test station. Not all of them have the kit. Up to you to prove it doesn't......

Anything else surfaces in the memory, I'll post it....

[Sando]

Wow thanks Arthur, pretty comprehensive that.

I've spoken to Chris Smith who has now put three Hawks through the test.
Spookily he had used exactly the same Axle weights as Chris (STR470S) ie. 475kg front, 629kg rear with a Gross weight of 1104kg..........not a million miles away from yours Arthur.

Things Chris said to look out for that the Nottingham guys have picked up on:
Side windows - no problem with Hawk letter.
Body Catch radius on the alloy exposed part when shut.
Interior window slider edges sharp.
Front indicators being seen from 80 degrees and when the bodywork is open (ie hazards when broken down) - front and rear
Front emblem flag tip not blunted
Brake fail warning light - recognised symbol sticker. + test from handbrake. (vehicle wiring products do a sticker sheet with one on)
Dash rheostat projecting and not likely to break when head butted....
Suspension nuts in the footwell not radiused
Mirrors, obviously
Steering wheel needs 2.5mm radiused edges or padding.
inspection of tunnel seatbelt mounts - may require a trip back with passenger seat removed.
Wiring in boot needing clipping if not protected. ie no carpet!


A few points to ponder - especially the hazards when the body is open. Short cables there then!!

cheers
Rob:cool:

[Arthur]

Some replies and things that slipped my gourd :-

Things Chris said to look out for that the Nottingham guys have picked up on:
Side windows - no problem with Hawk letter. I HAD A COPY OF THE HAWK LETTER - CUT NO ICE AT HEYWOOD, HAD TO TAKE 'EM OUT FOR RETEST.

Body Catch radius on the alloy exposed part when shut. I DIDN'T USE TARGA TOP CATCHES (not a purist!) I USED DZUS FASTENERS FRONT AND BACK SPECIFICALLY TO AVOID THE RADIUS WORRIES.

Interior window slider edges sharp. NOT MENTIONED.

Front indicators being seen from 80 degrees and when the bodywork is open (ie hazards when broken down) - front and rear
I MOUNTED THE RENAULT COMBINED SIDE AND INDICATOR PODS ON ALLY BRACKETS TO GET THEM FORWARD ENOUGH - ONLY AN INCH OR SO - TO COMPLY WITH THAT SVA REQUIREMENT DURING BUILD

Front emblem flag tip not blunted I DON'T HAVE ONE.

Brake fail warning light - recognised symbol sticker. + test from handbrake. (vehicle wiring products do a sticker sheet with one on) I USED FORD ESCORT SWITCHES MOUNTED IN THE TILTON CAPS TO DO THE WARNING LIGHT, AND USED A EUROPA CATALOGUE ROCKER SWITCH WITH EMBLEM AS THE TEST SWITCH. HANDBRAKE - REVERSED THE 164 SWITCH ACTION BY RELAY, AND USED A EUROPA SYMBOL WARNING LIGHT.

Dash rheostat projecting and not likely to break when head butted....NOT GOT ONE (OLDER 164 WIPER MOTOR AT THE TIME)

Suspension nuts in the footwell not radiused ANYTHING WILL DO - STICK-ON CARPET, CHUNK OF FOAM, ETC. DOESN'T NEED TO BE PRETTY, JUST LEGAL.

Mirrors, obviously BEEN DONE TO DEATH.

Steering wheel needs 2.5mm radiused edges or padding. MINE IS A MOMO - NO, I LIE, I LEFT THE 164 WHEEL ON. NO PROBS AT ALL, AND IF USING A LARGE DIAMETER WHEEL, THE LARGER THE BETTER - YOU GET A FEW CENTIMETRES ALL ROUND THE LINE FROM THE RIM WIDTH IN LINE-OF-SIGHT IN WHICH YOU DON'T NEED THE RADIUS OR BREAKAWAY WEIGHTS, COS OFFICIALLY YOUR HEAD WILL NEVER HIT THEM. THE WHEEL MUST BE PADDED, AND MUST NOT HAVE LIGHTENING HOLES IN THE SPOKES WHICH ARE VIEWED AS BEING ABLE TO SNAG BITS OF YOUR PERSON, LIKE CUFFLINKS. CENTRE BOSS MUST BE RECESSED AND RADIUSED, OR ADEQUATELY PADDED.

inspection of tunnel seatbelt mounts - may require a trip back with passenger seat removed. I HAD HUGH CARSON WITH ME OBSERVING AND HELPING - SINCE HE BUILT THE TUBE FRAME, HE ASSURED THE TESTERS OF THE ATTACHMENT OF THE CAPTIVE MOUNTING POINTS, AND THEY WERE HAPPY WITH THAT.

Wiring in boot needing clipping if not protected. ie no carpet! I CLIPPED MINE AT BUILD - I USED AN ALUMINIUM 3 X 3 INCH (very roughly) SQUARE, WITH A TANG CUT AND BENT UP AS THE CABLE SPRAG. I USED SIKAFLEX TO BOND THE ALLY TO THE GLASS SKIN, BEND THE SPRAG OVER THE CABLE, AND BOB'S YOUR AUNTIE. USED A LOAD, AND NONE SO FAR FALLEN OFF.

AND INCIDENTALLY - I HAD TROUBLE GETTING THE BELT CLIPS TO FIT. YOU ONLY GET ONE TYPE OF CLIP PER BELT, SO TO KEEP THE LOAD PATHS STRAIGHT, I USED WILLANS 6-POINTS, WITH FLAT CLIPS, WHICH SUITED (AND HAD ROOM TO FIT) THE SEAT SIDE MOUNTS, AND USED CLIMBING KARABINERS (ALUMINIUM, NEAT, AND ANODISED IN A VARIETY OF COLOURS TO SUIT YOUR PAINT SCHEME) TO GET A STRAIGHT PULL TO THE UPPER REAR MOUNTS. THESE COST ABOUT 8 QUID A PIECE, ARE SPRING-LOCKED SHUT, AND HAVE STAMPED LOADS AND TEST CERTS ON SUPPLY. GOT PAST WITHOUT A MENTION. LOAD RATING IS WELL IN EXCESS OF THE SEAT BELT TOTAL (3/4 TON I THINK) PER KARABINER, WHICH ARE AROUND 0.8 TON OPEN, AND ABOUT 4 TON CLOSED, BUT CHECK IF YOU GO THIS ROUTE.

MY HEADLAMPS POPPED ON FLASH. IT NEEDS 5 RELAYS, OF THE ON/OFF OR CHANGE-OVER TYPE (cleverer people than me can use what they want, but these are a couple of quid a throw from any car shop in times of stress) USING THE FORD/MAZDA MOTORS WITH POWER-ON TO DRIVE UP OR DOWN. (I have a circuit diagram somewhere if its any use to anyone, but its a scan so will be too big to post - let me know if you want one, or if you have a scheme by which I can send damn big emails to someone who can get them posted on the forum).

AND FINALLY, THE GUY DOING MY TEST TOOK 7 HOURS FIRST TIME TO FAIL IT. TURNS OUT HE WAS RE-WRITING THE REG BOOK, AND WAS BEING A TOUCH PERNICKETY. HE CONFIDED THAT "IT WOULD HAVE PASSED IN 20 MINUTES ANYWHERE ELSE". SECOND TIME ROUND, IT WENT THROUGH ALMOST ON A NOD, NO PROBS AT ALL.

I HAVE SINCE BEEN TOLD, REFERRING TO BRAKES, THAT IF YOU HAVE A SLIPPY DIFF (OR CONVINCE THEM YOU DO) THEY DO IT ON AN ACCELEROMETER, COS THE ROLLERS CAN'T COPE WITH THE TORQUE SPLIT, AND ITS POSSIBLE TO PASS ON A DECENT HANDBRAKE.

All the best,
Arthur.

[Sando]

Just looking back at this, I think quite a lot of the important areas are already covered.

One or two additional notes.
Front indicators. I wound the car up on the front suspension to the highest, also temp. mounted the indicators at the top of the recess and proud enough so that they could be seen from the 80 degree side view. The bottom of the indicator lense needs to be 350mm from the ground.
- This has now been put back to 'Sando spec' and will be as GP4 by tomorrow!

Speedo - old Yokahama 285's (I'll check aspect but I think they are 40) used on 15x10 inch rims and the 124 speedo read spot on without modification.

Mirrors - ran without the rear louvers on, put a big wide Jeep rear view mirror in (close to you so that the field of view is wider) and it sailed through the interior mirror test, negating the need for the nearside mirror (which was marginal but probably would have scraped through).
The mirrors I used were Motorcycle mirrors from a Yamaha FZR750 exup. Not the best quailty, but they do look the part and the stalks make them high enough to see round the arches and rear haunches if mounted slightly further out than say a Californian. All the above vibrate like £*ck when you are on the road though so maybe some more work needed there.

Another one while I remember is the (Stradale) fuel tank fillers, we mentioned the seal before, this is a must, but also the top of the centre ridge could do with a radius. Althouh not proud of the body work it can be touched by the SVA ball so it is down to the man on the day. I got through with it because they were 'blunted' edges. May be worth filing/buffing them off a bit.

Side repeaters - I went with round Beta ones as I thought the radius on the teardrop ones may have been an issue (not sure, - probably not) These were only just visible from the rear side 5 degree view (5 meters back and 450mm out to the side) again I got away with it - just!.

Standard Hawk brake set up was ok, I just lowered the front tyres to 18psi to give them a bit more bite (it was wet but they had dried out by the time the brake test was done inside) all the figures were taken away to be input into the computer to work out the balance. I didn't see this bit so I don't know if he had to change anything to get it to pass.

I'll add other comments as I remember!

cheers for now
Rob

[CorseChris]

As this is about to become topical for me again, I just though I'd bring it back to the top :) by saying a big Thank You to all who have contributed so far.

I will of course add any of my own experiences with the test that might be pertinent when the time comes.......but this is all good stuff for us SVA virgins.

Thanks chaps.

[Sando]

Copied from the Gutter thread to keep this all together.......

I'm sure you would anyway, but run a bit of wet n dry over them to take the sharp edges off......... For the nice SVA man.
Especially the top ones as they are contactable by the measuring ball and have to be 'blunted'......

Yes they are sharp little suckers! a detail most people would do anyway I'm sure.

I'm planning on doing a SEC newsletter article soon and I'll collate all the above info into a one pager of tips for non surfers if nobody minds.
cheers
Rob :cool:

[alfagene]

I hope to someday build a Stratos kit, as soon as I get the money and the time. If (when) I do it looks like I will have a lot easier time registering it here in California than you do in Great Britain.
To register a kit car in California you need to have proof of ownership for the main components, engine, transmission, frame, body, etc., (a bill of sale will do) and then take the car to any Highway Patrol office and have them check the vehicle to verify that it was not built with stolen parts. After that you need to get an emissions check (based upon the year of the engine). There is no emission check required for vehicles of model year 1974 or before. However they have provided a loophole for the first 500 kit cars registered each year in that the car can be registered as a model year based upon the appearance of the engine or the vehicle as a whole. This means that if you were to build a hot rod that looks like a 1932 Ford it could be registered as a 1932 automobile even though there is no component on the car that is more than a year old. A Stratos kit could be registered as a 1973 model year thus there would never have to be an emissions check performed.
You then need a brake and light certificate. This consists of having an approved mechanic check that the brake rotors/drum are not undersize and that when the mechanic drives the car into the check bay the brakes will stop the car. No testing of actual braking ability or force. The light check is similar - do they light up when the switch is turned on, do the brake lights and turn signals work?
Then it is down to the Department of Motor Vehicles to pay the fees, show proof of insurance and get your license plate. In California there is no safety inspection and the worst is that if the car model year in 1975 or later you need to get an emissions check every two year. During the testing process you can get a temporary permit to drive the car on the street for up to 2 months and if needed you can get another two-month extension.
To give you an idea of how many kit cars are registered in California each year they ran through the 500 loophole limit by February 27th this year.
In California if you pay your fees and have insurance you can drive anything. California does have laws concerning lights, window glass, seat belts, etc. but you only have to take care of a problem if a police officer writes you up. There are no regulations about sharp edges, protruding bolts or flexing seats.
The total cost for registering a Stratos valued at $30,000 for the first year, including the emission tests and other checks would be about $300 to $350.
Some states have tighter requirements including yearly safety checks while other states have even simpler requirements. At least with you SVA, MOT and other inspections you don't have to worry about a car falling apart in front of you.

Gene Brown
Simi Valley, CA