Clutch release bearing

[chris.richard]

I'm stuck with how to remove an Alfa release bearing from the coverplate spring fingers. The manual (as usual) tells you to use a special tool, but I can't figure out a way of doing it that doesn't require four or five hands! Any suggestions?

[Stratos]

Is this a 24v pressure plate?

If so, it's almost impossible.

Don't bother - replace it.

And while we are on the subject of clutches .....

If the clutch has been slipping or is well worn, the flywheel must be skimmed before fitting a new clutch plate, or you'll end up with either judder or slip. Apparently the 164 flywheel is very prone to distorting.

I was getting clutch slip at Abingdon, so I replaced the plate, and didn't know anything about this flywheel issue.

Drove the car just up and down the street to check the clutch was OK a few days before the Azimghur Stages last Saturday. Seemed fine.

Went to the rally. Dropped the clutch off the start line, pulled away OK. Selected 2nd, and got loads of clutch slip - couldn't believe it.

Stripped the clutch out after the rally, and spoke to my friend, Keith Waite, who runs a local Alfa garage. he told me straight away what it would be, and sure enough when I felt the flywheel, you could feel the distortion with your fingures.

So my flywheel was skimmed this week, and it and the clutch assembly were replaced last night. New clutch plate and pressure plate. It seems OK now.

The clutch plate that I took out showed that I had been using only half the friction material. Half the friction material is still rough, as it comes when new, showing that only half the clutch plate had been in contact with the flywheel.

Keith tells me he has a policy at his garage, that he will refuse to change a clutch plate, unless the customer agrees to also have the flywheel skimmed, because he has had too many problems when the flywheel wasn't skimmed.

[chris.richard]

Unfortunately it IS a new clutch! Long story, but it looks like a trip to the local garage, or even the Edinburgh Alfa dealers...

[Stratos]

Originally posted by chris.richard
Unfortunately it IS a new clutch! Long story, but it looks like a trip to the local garage, or even the Edinburgh Alfa dealers...

Then why do you need to remove it?

It's not easy, but it is possible, to refit the whole assembly with the release bearing attached to the pressure plate. I've done it.

[chris.richard]

I don't see how to fit the lever forks into the loops on the release bearing while it's attached to the coverplate.:( All suggestions gratefully received.

[Stratos]

Very, very carefully, as you push the gearbox toward the engine.

It is possible. Took me a lot of goes to get it lined up. I nearly gave up on it.

There's a right way, and 180degree wrong way for the release bearing.

Is the engine out of the car?

I still had the engine in the car, and was trying to manouveur the gearbox onto the engine, while lining up the forks onto the release bearing.

AND, when you finally do get it all going right, you suddenly realise that you need both hands to keep hold of the gearbox, and you can't reach the bolts to start them.......

It'd be easier with 2 people.

But persevere, it is possible.

[chris.richard]

Hmm..
How do you tell the right way from the 180 degree wrong way?

I'm also worried about the weight of the box sitting on input shaft while i'm doing the Gynaecological bit to line up the forks.

The engine is out of the car at the moment. Interested that you can get the box off with the engine in the car - is that just in Corses, or can it be done in Hawks?

[Stratos]

Originally posted by chris.richard
Hmm..
How do you tell the right way from the 180 degree wrong way?


If you look carefully at the release bearing, when it's lined up ready for the fork, the bit where the fork goes into isn't quite the same length each side. If I remember correctly, the longer side goes towards the fork - we're only talking couple of mm difference.



Originally posted by chris.richard
Hmm..
I'm also worried about the weight of the box sitting on input shaft while i'm doing the Gynaecological bit to line up the forks.


Hmmm..... I did my Gynaecological bit last night. I'm pleased no-one was watching.



Originally posted by chris.richard
Interested that you can get the box off with the engine in the car - is that just in Corses, or can it be done in Hawks?

It can be done on an Allora, only just!! - don't know about a Corse or a Hawk.

I suppose I'll probably find out eventually, when I finally get around to doing something with my Corse.



Chris,

I have a christening tomorrow afternoon, so I won't be around afternoon or evening, but, if you need to discuss this, you could call me tomorrow morning on 07976 672987.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by chris.richard
[BInterested that you can get the box off with the engine in the car - is that just in Corses, or can it be done in Hawks?[/B]

I've managed on my Hawk, although I would say it was easy.

The left-hand strut/hub/driveshaft was removed - which I guess would be expected when removing the gearbox from that side of the car!

Also had to detach the right-hand wishbone from the chassis, plus the a.r.b., and undid the central driveshaft bearing to allow the intermediate and off-side shafts to be pulled to the right, so they came out of the diff housing.

Removed the nut on top of the rearmost engine mount (as well as the left-hand gearbox mount. Can't remember now whether I disconnected the exhaust manifolds from the silencer, but that might well have been required to get enough free play (and new gaskets afterwards).

This meant that it was possible to jack up the engine on the sump just enough to get access for the gearbox/bellhousing/diff to drop over the left-hand chassis rail and mate up with the clutch and flywheel.

Some stress was put onto the flexible hoses for the coolant pipework, but there is enough play there for that not to matter - although different plumbing arrangements may be better or worse, perhaps needing pipes to be disconnected and drained as well.

Anyway, I managed to lift and tilt the engine just enough without taking off the ancillaries and connections other than those in the driveshaft area. Hope that you can manage to do the same without too much trouble...

[David May]

I would say it's about the same on a Corse I too - and a bit tighter with a 24V. I seem to remember that you need to take the operating arm off the clutch pivot to get the forks into the release bearing.

Dave May

[chris.richard]

Just been to the local garage. They say that the clutch HAS to be put in with the release bearing on the forks already, because it is a pull-to release, not the usual push to release. Alfa & Peugeot are like this. They suggest either tie the bearing to the spring fingers with thread to stop it rotating, or loop a piece of wire or string through the inspection hole and round the loops to keep the alignment. Then "all" you have to do is get the forks to engage as you slide the box on. They said it took six hands last time they did it!:(

[Stratos]

Originally posted by chris.richard
They say that the clutch HAS to be put in with the release bearing on the forks already, because it is a pull-to release, not the usual push to release.

Chris,

They are COMPLETELY wrong.

There is a plastic surround over a spring on the release bearing. When you fit it all together, ie gearbox back on engine, you pull the release lever the wrong way, it pops the bearing through the forks, but the plastic surround doesnt go through the forks, so the spring gets released at the other side of the forks, expands behind the forks, and locks the bearing onto the forks. It's this spring which makes it impossible to remove the release bearing from the pressure plate after it has been fitted.

Regardless of what the garage say, I have a pull-to-release clutch like you, and I managed to fit a new clutch plate with the bearing already attached to the pressure plate - it's not easy, took a lot of effort and frustration, but I did it on my own with the engine half-in, half out, which must be worse than with the engine completely removed.

Having said that, when I fitted yet another clutch plate on Friday night, i fitted a new pressure plate and release bearing, which meant I was able to put the release bearing on the mainshaft of the gearbox, fit the release arm into it, then offer the gearbox up to the engine. IT IS 100 times easier that way.

Personally, it would probably be worth the cost of a new pressure plate and clutch for the ease of fitting.

BUT, it can be done the other way - even by a numbskull like me.

Like I said before, call me if you wish, I'll be in the garage this evening. I can explai a few things quicker by phone than via email, and you could take your decision from there.

[SUSIT]

Hi all
Had similar problem with Legacy Turbo. Its release bearing has to pull on the clutch cover fingers. There is a spring ring that you remove to release it but you can only do that with the cover removed. I dont know the Alfa set up (yet) but is there not a similar arrangement? I had a really difficult time at the first attempt until we sussed it out.

Stephen Struthers