At what speeds are the roof wing and rear spoiler needed ?

[Patriq Backlund]

I thought I'd ask you who have first ran without, and then fitted rear spoiler and wing on the roof:

At what speeds is it worth the effort to have these fitted ?

Is the difference significant ?

[chris.richard]

At what speeds is it worth the effort to have these fitted ?


At any speed that you will be viewing the car at! :p
I like the visual effect. I suspect that they'll only be aerodynamically effective at 100km/h +

[SUSIT]

I thought I'd ask you who have first ran without, and then fitted rear spoiler and wing on the roof:

At what speeds is it worth the effort to have these fitted ?

Is the difference significant ?


As far as i am aware they have little or no infulance on downforce at all Patriq, if i remember correct then the talk was that the roof spoiler help create an area of low pressure above the engine cover and in theory help cooling by drawing hot air out.

Stephen.

PS It is said a front chin spoiler aids high speed stability but i have never seen a car with one fitted but i believe Hawk might be able to supply

[strat6v]

Wasn't Dallara supposed to have come up with the design for the rear spoiler and wing through wind tunnel tests:confused:

[SUSIT]

Wasn't Dallara supposed to have come up with the design for the rear spoiler and wing through wind tunnel tests:confused:

The roof wing is wing shape in profile but the right way up for a wing if you get my drift therefore in my humble opinion it will generate lift instead of down force,b
Please some one correct me if i an talking carp:D:D

[strat6v]

I know where you are coming from re the wing, i think it was just used to divert some flow onto the rear spoiler:confused:

[guy mayers]

And I thought it was there to direct air down over the rear louvres, drawing the hot air out as Stephen suggests.

Andrea thinks it's there so you can take the Stratos on aeroplanes as hand luggage.:D:D:D:D:D

[Elliott.L]

PS It is said a front chin spoiler aids high speed stability but i have never seen a car with one fitted but i believe Hawk might be able to supply

My car, a Hawk, originally built by Roger Donnan had a chin spoiler supplied by Hawk fitted to it when I bought it. Roger, remember, used it for racing. He told me that the chin spoiler made a noticable difference.

Hopefully, he will post further on this when he sees this thread. I removed it for aesthetic reasons.

Elliott.

ETA: If you have a copy of this year's S.E.C. calendar, have a look at 'Miss March'. There you will find a photo of the car with chin spoiler fitted.

[Sando]

If you have a copy of this year's S.E.C. calendar, have a look at 'Miss March'. There you will find a photo of the car with chin spoiler fitted.

There are still a few copies left if anyone wants one....:rolleyes::D

[Patriq Backlund]

I'm actually not a member, yet.
How much is it a year ?

Regarding the wing on the roof - I've also heard that it was there to lead the flow of air down to the rear spoiler.

I'll see if I can find an image of those chin spoilers.

[Stratos]

How acurately does anyone fix the spoilers in relation to what the original designers had in mind?

So how do any of us know what effect our spoilers are actually having in the real world.

They could even be having an adverse effect.

However, they do have a pleasing visual effect. :)

[Patriq Backlund]

Thanks for all answers so far.
I was really after someone who had had a noticable effect from fitting them (or losing them....)

Personally I prefer the design without them in most cases.
My favourites so far are; the in-your-face-orange Prototipo, the Pirelli livery (with spoiler), and the plain red Stradale - without spoiler. Stradale with black wing and spoiler are quite ok too - but I prefer it without.

[Stratos]

Towing the car on a trailer with the Stratos facing backwards causes problems with the roof spoiler.

I lost one roof spoiler that way.

I don't suppose it was designed for rearward motion at speed, but that probably means it does have some effect.

(However, I was possibly a tad over the trailer speed limit on occasion.:)

I think Steven had a similar problem.

[catswhiskers]

if i remember correct then the talk was that the roof spoiler help create an area of low pressure above the engine cover and in theory help cooling by drawing hot air out.

Stephen.



That is also my understanding of the principle of the roof spoiler. It was also incorporated onto the Ferrari 308 and 328 for the same reason (so I was once told by a Ferrari engineer.)

Mick

[CorseChris]

The best non-mathematical description of how a wing works I've seen describes how the air is turned by an aerofoil (it's from NASA, so I'll take it as valid!). Clearly, air is turned pretty effectively on my car, as the top/forward face of the rear spoiler is always quite warm after a run, so theres a good flow of hot air coming out of the rear louvers and running across the back. Be interesting to put a smoke generator under the engine bay and see what it looks like at speed. At a guess, good flow across the top of the rear deck and a big kick up over the rear spoiler - should break away really nicely from the blunt back end shouldn't it?

[Stratos]

Here's an earlier discussion on this.

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556

[Patriq Backlund]

Here's an earlier discussion on this.

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=556


Thanks !

Many good pictures and thoughts there.

[Chris J]

However, they do have a pleasing visual effect. :)

I'm going to weigh them. I hope they're heavy!

Roof wing and rear spoiler together are 5.6 kg.

[Stratos]

It you're concerned about weight, have you weighed your headlight motors?

[SUSIT]

It you're concerned about weight, have you weighed your headlight motors?



What head light motors:D:D:D Long gone:D:D

[John]

have you weighed your headlight motors?

Beats me why you all don't convert to the Ford/Mazda motor. It weighs about a quarter of what the FIAT motors weigh and it works all the time.
You can't want originality that much....?

[Stratos]

I bet it still weighs more than a short alloy bracket that you manually move :)

[roger001]

Stephen.

PS It is said a front chin spoiler aids high speed stability but i have never seen a car with one fitted but i believe Hawk might be able to supply

I fitted Hawk's front spoiler to improve front end stability at speed when using the Car in Circiur racing. It proved very effective at speeds up to 130mph ( Les Combes straight at Spa).

I will post a photo to the newly mended gallery.

PS Have just returned from Cadwell Park where I thought the Stratos was quick - managed to shave 5 sec a lap of my prev best using the crossle !!!!

[Elliott.L]

PS Have just returned from Cadwell Park where I thought the Stratos was quick - managed to shave 5 sec a lap of my prev best using the crossle !!!!

That Crossle looked the business when I saw it in the barn! I'm delighted for you that it has lived up to your expectations.

Unfortunately, I've not yet managed to get the Stratos up to 130 mph down here in North London. However, now Boris Johnson has usurped Ken Livingstone as mayor I have renewed hope! :D

[roger001]

Towing the car on a trailer with the Stratos facing backwards causes problems with the roof spoiler.

I lost one roof spoiler that way.




I can't say I've lost a roof spoiler towing but I have lost the complete set of louvres - much more of a pain to replace.....

[Patriq Backlund]

Just to sum up the conclusions so far:

No one has any real experience of better handling with the roof and rear wing/spoiler.
But the front lower spoiler is known to improve understeer at some situations.

Right !?

[mudhut]

But the front lower spoiler is known to improve understeer at some situations.


Improves straight line driving too I'd say.

Mine's so light at the front at around 100mph I've only ever done it once. There's a substantial wedge of air trying to lift it.

[Patriq Backlund]

Thanks for all answers so far.
I was really after someone who had had a noticable effect from fitting them (or losing them....)



I feel I have to clearify myself here. With loosing I off course meant removing.....

Since, all the examples quoted of loosing really was loosing ! :D

[SUSIT]

I feel I have to clearify myself here. With loosing I off course meant removing.....

Since, all the examples quoted of loosing really was loosing ! :D


Patriq,

I have run without the roof spoiler and i am sure in terms of handling at speeds under 90mph (Never driven the car faster)I could not tell the diffirence. My feeling is that neither of the spoilers will do anything for the stability or handling. I do feel a chin spoiler would be of benefit but IMHO spoils the looks and in my case as a forrest rally car would be ripped of within a mile of the startline on stage one.
However they are relatively easy to put on and take off (boot & roof spoiler)
that you could easily test yourself. In the price of both available kits you get them I believe.

Stephen

[Chris J]

In the price of both available kits you get them I believe.

Stephen

£556.95 extra for Hawks (roof + rear).

[Patriq Backlund]

I see that Graham Scott's car is running both the wing and rear spoiler + an extra rear wing. I wonder if he did any test in a windtunnel and found that he wanted both rear spoiler + wing ?

And is it Hawk based his car ?
Did Hawk do the front spoiler and modifications to the side on this car ?

[Stratos]

Graham Scott's car is a CORSE, originally built by Lionel Gooch.

It ran in the British GT Championship before Graham Scott purchased it.

I can't remember whether the rear wing was on when it was running in the GT CHampionship, or whether that was something that Graham Scott added later when he was using the car in the LeMans Auto Italia Championship.

[John]

Yes, Lionels old car did have an additional rear wing when running in the GT championship.

[vindi49]

I think the main issue for the effectiveness of roof or rear spoilers are what they are attached to, one of the guys in my old kit car club fitted a wing for racing, and removed it as soon as it was pointed out that all he was achieving was flexing the fibreglass at the rear of his car!!
Look at the rear wing on most racing cars and the wing will be hard mounted onto the chassis, not the bodywork.
I seem to remember from an article in Practical Performance Car that they start to have a noticeable effect at about 110 - 115 mph and more, depending on the shape / weight of the car they are on, of course.
Russell

[strat6v]

What Russell says is correct and is why some rear body hinges are bending........:rolleyes:

[mudhut]

What Russell says is correct and is why some rear body hinges are bending........:rolleyes:

My rear cover is just too heavy for the hinges when it's open. The hinges really are puny and I'll redo them to a different design for the refit.

[Swamprat33]

Never really had an issue over 100mph apart from one day at Bruntingthorpe airfield.
The car ran out of steam at 138mph.
The only problem i found was that the wiper arm was trying to lift off the windscreen. I would definately tie it down next time.
Christ knows what damage that would have done ripped off at that speed. I guess it would have taken a good part of the front scuttle with it.

Hey ho

Tim

[Arthur]

Windscreen wiper coming off - I've now got a Kwik-Fit off-the-peg blade with wing attached - works crap as a wiper, but doesn't lift off the screen and wave around any more, so far tested to just over the ton.

Roof spoiler - doesn't seem to do anything, so I haven't got one. Whether it aids cooling - who knows.

Boot spoiler - probably does help, but you'd have to run back-to-back tests to be sure - certainly it makes pushing the thing easier, provided it's well secured. Certainly ensures that all the goo and filth gets properly bonded to the rear panel.

Chin spoiler - should work, at any speeds above 50 ish - shifts air around the car rather than underneath, so is acutually better for fuel economy, and should cut inherent lift, which the Strat has at silly speeds - front gets kind of light at 120 plus. (but that's also dependant on chassis rake, so its hard to quantify).

Best of luck. How's the club test track coming along?
Arthur.