Beginning to look like Bobster's

[chris.richard]

Having a trial mock-up today before taking the plenums (pleni?)to the welders next week. The "Alfa Romeo" logo will get milled off too.

Why? well, just because, really!

[chris.richard]

You can see the difference in throttle body apertures

[chris.richard]

how they compare 2

[chris.richard]

Going to try and graft the throttle body neck onto the Lancia one. A job for a plasma cutter and a Tig, I think.

[strat6v]

Would it have been easier to have a lancia badge milled, milled the 'alfa' of the plenum and stuck the new one on??

Seems like this would be something a lot of people may want. I'll have a word with my cnc programmer buddy regarding having some lancia badges milled from ally blanks, what he needs drawings, sizes etc and get a rough cost.

Once i've got my build out of the way, I would be happy to mill the plenums for people as long as they don't all come at once. Could do on an exchange basis with the plenums as i have a couple of spares ;)

[stableblock]

I'd have thought that there was a big risk of heat distortion if you try to weld this. A lower temperature process might produce better results (lumiweld etc) as its hardly a highly stressed area, or even careful preparation and a high performance epoxy adhesive / filler may well work.

I did something similar with the alloy tailhousing on a gearbox a few years ago. The tig welded one looked great but was distorted. The next one I glued with epoxy after careful preparation and that was then fine.

Just a thought...

[Steve Strain]

Hi Chris

Sorry to digress from your thread topic a little.
I noticed the red air pipe to the AFM, this looks like a bit customisation on your part. I managed to damage the same pipe on my 12v cloverleaf (since repaired) but thought of making another out of alloy to better align the AFM and air pod to where I want it.
Assuming some similarities with the 12v where do the idle motor and sump breather pipes from your 24v motor attach? Are they just hidden from view in the photo?

thanks

Steve

[chris.richard]

My sump breather is vented to atmosphere via a filter. this (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=P/CC9024B)
The idle vale input will be tapped into the silicone hose with a self cutting joiner. these (http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/products/ProductDetail.asp?cls=MSPORT&pcode=GLOSST01)

[chris.richard]

I'd have thought that there was a big risk of heat distortion if you try to weld this. A lower temperature process might produce better results (lumiweld etc) as its hardly a highly stressed area, or even careful preparation and a high performance epoxy adhesive / filler may well work.

I did something similar with the alloy tailhousing on a gearbox a few years ago. The tig welded one looked great but was distorted. The next one I glued with epoxy after careful preparation and that was then fine.

Just a thought...

The exact alignment of these isn't critical in the way that it is with gearbox shafts - it's connected to a silicone hose to go where I want it, so I don't see it as a problem Peter. I hadn't thought about just Aralditing it though - are you serious? Getting the whole lump of aluminium up to lumiwelding temperature would be a pain.

[Steve Strain]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the link to the self cutter joiner, I hadn't seen anything like this before, I will see if I can get some locally. Silicon bends are readily available here if you like Bright Blue (obviously aimed at a different market).

Thanks

Steve

[chris.richard]

Steve, these wouldn't be difficult to manufacture. It's a circular cutting tool that you whack through the hose, then a flanged, threaded tube that tightens onto the hose wall to seal. Cut the hole with a scalpel. Drill out the centre of a suitable bolt, some silicon goo, two washers and a nut and you'd have the same effect.

[John]

Cut the hole with a scalpel. Drill out the centre of a suitable bolt, some silicon goo, two washers and a nut and you'd have the same effect.

Years of NHS training paying off now Chris!! :D :D

[mudhut]

Revotec (http://http://www.revotec.com/Self-Seal.htm) (or one of their distributors) were at Stoneleigh last year when I picked up a leaflet.

Not sure about the prices being charged there but as the show is only a month away, this might be an opportunity to pick some up at a price possibly less than Demon Thieves.

We might be able to help Steve out on this too.

Just a thought.

[stableblock]

Hi

The distortion may affect more than the tube joint - isn't there a big flat area on the outlet side?

Epoxy can be very strong, the stuff I used was quite a bit thinner than araldite and as always the key is in the preparation. You'd need to etch prime or something similar. Try it first on the bit you cut off.

RS do a two part metal loaded epoxy which would do the job.

Hope this helps.

[Swamprat33]

Hey, Hey, Look what i found....

Lancia Plenum (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lancia-Thesis-3-0-3-2-V6-Ansaugbruecke-Saugkruemmer_W0QQitemZ320222600635QQihZ011QQcatego ryZ36474QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m11 8.l1247QQcmdZViewItem)

I assume, that this will only fit a 24v motor.
Is there a 12v version???

Cheers

Tim

[pimms]

Going to try and graft the throttle body neck onto the Lancia one. A job for a plasma cutter and a Tig, I think.

What is wrong with these kinds of throttle body's? I bought this engine which i will collect soon. It has a similar throttle body but not Lancia on the plenum but on the valve cover:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6164

[chris.richard]

Hey, Hey, Look what i found....

Lancia Plenum (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lancia-Thesis-3-0-3-2-V6-Ansaugbruecke-Saugkruemmer_W0QQitemZ320222600635QQihZ011QQcatego ryZ36474QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQ_trksidZp1638.m11 8.l1247QQcmdZViewItem)

I assume, that this will only fit a 24v motor.
Is there a 12v version???

Cheers

Tim

that's subtley different from mine. Single throttle butterfly from the look of it, different tappings for pipes.

[chris.richard]

What is wrong with these kinds of throttle body's? I bought this engine which i will collect soon. It has a similar throttle body but not Lancia on the plenum but on the valve cover:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6164

Dual butterfly has a smaller total area = more restrictive.

[Chris J]

Chris,

Do you think the plenum that Tim has found on ebay might be from the earlier (164) generation of 24v Kappa, rather than the latest type like Rob's and the one that your plenum was attached to?

[chris.richard]

No, I think it's later. The Lancia Thesis was introduced in 2002, with the 3.0 24v, then upgraded to 3.2 in 2003.

It is a 6-cylinder unit in a 60° V shape, with an aluminium crankcase and cylinder head. The combustion chambers are of the 'roofed' type with a central sparkplug, and the valves are positioned at an angle of just 37°.
The engineers have modified the crankshaft and pistons to increase the capacity to 3,179 cc, extending the stroke to 78 mm, an alteration that says plenty about the type of performance they were looking for. To boost the power delivery, it would actually have been sufficient to modify the timing gear, fuel supply and electronics. Increasing the capacity by extending the stroke, on the other hand, is a change that aims not only at achieving absolute performance and high power and torque levels, but also a regular, smooth delivery even at slow speeds. Which is what you want from a car capable of outstanding performance, but also suitable for use on everyday roads.
The increase in capacity was obviously accompanied by a number of other measures. The intake and exhaust manifolds were 'tuned' with new valve gear timing. The injection system is also new. It adopts a Multipoint system with sequential injection, Bosch Motronic ME 7 electronic management and a 'returnless' system with selective knock control.
The accelerator is of the 'drive by wire' type, with no mechanical connection between the accelerator pedal and the throttle valve. The latter is driven electronically by the engine control unit. It is a solution that guarantees known advantages in terms of reducing consumption and emissions, as well as making the car more enjoyable to drive.
For example, cold starts: the warm-up phase is shortened because the catalytic converter is activated more rapidly, but at no detriment to torque or to driveability when setting off. The driver has more control over acceleration, because the control unit receives the data related to his requests 'before' it gives an order to the throttle valve. And he can enjoy the advantages of electronic speed adjustment provided by Cruise Control.
To bring the engine oil to the right temperature more rapidly after a cold start, the 3.2 V6 24v has a water-oil instead of air-oil heat exchanger.
The many advantages of this engine include the fact that it requires little maintenance. Apart from an oil change, the first programmed maintenance is set for 100,000 km. This is made possible by a number of technical features such as spark plugs with double platinum electrodes, hydraulic tappets and automatic tensioners on the timing belt and the poly-V belt for the auxiliary equipment.
The 3.2 V6 24v is a spectacular engine but it is also a clean one. It incorporates two three-way catalytic pre-converters in the stainless steel exhaust manifolds and a double catalytic converter under the floorpan, complete with four heated lambda probes. The fuel system is of the returnless type, i.e. the petrol does not return to the tank, and a pressure adjustment valve is incorporated in the fuel pump. The result is to reduce vapour emissions.

[Chris J]

Oh yes, I'd forgotten it said 'Thesis'.

I see it says the 3.2 has a water oil cooler (as standard).

[John]

then upgraded to 3.2 in 2003.

You don't have a link to a photo of that engine do you, Chris?

[chris.richard]

So, £60 lighter,

[chris.richard]

Revotec (http://http://www.revotec.com/Self-Seal.htm) (or one of their distributors) were at Stoneleigh last year when I picked up a leaflet.

Not sure about the prices being charged there but as the show is only a month away, this might be an opportunity to pick some up at a price possibly less than Demon Thieves.

We might be able to help Steve out on this too.

Just a thought.

It was a doddle to use.

Here's the instruction sheet