New Corse chassis

[John]

I thought you guy's might like to see the first Corse chassis to be produced by our new chassis partners, CAGED in Frome, Somerset.
It features a modestly re-arranged engine bay and rear suspension pickups.
The ideas behind the mods were to make the engine bay roomier to accommodate different engine options, and in the case of the Alfa, be able to move the engine forward slightly and use the Alfa exhaust manifolds, especially on the 24valve engines.
The rear suspension pickups are all now double shear, and closer to the main tubes.
Apart from that the chassis retains it's simple but effective folded steel construction.
We have been using laser cut panels for some time now, but completion of a Solidworks model will mean that we can move on so that all the tubing will also be laser cut and largely self-jigging.

[John]

And another pic

[John]

And another...

[lpriestland]

Lookin' good there John, well done.

Putting the rear wishbone in double shear rear is a darn fine idea and something I suppose I'm going to have to resort to...eventually.

The engine cradle sure looks tall compared to mine. Oh and the lack of a removable top brace would mean punchin' a hole in our bedroom floor :p

[John]

Thanks, Lee. The rear end is substantially wider and higher, but still fits nicely under the bodywork.

[chris.richard]

Thanks, Lee. The rear end is substantially wider and higher, but still fits nicely under the bodywork.

Looks more like a Hawk every day.... :p :p :D

[Bernard]

You should be on the stage CR................ scrubbing it !

Just had a chuckle at your "location"........... brilliant !

my "current" location.....wrapped in wires, catching sparks

Bernard

[John]

Looks more like a Hawk every day.... :p :p :D
CR! Wash your mouth out!!
A little competition for you. Count how many triangles you can see on the Corse chassis, Now go and have a look at yours.......

[CorseChris]

To quote Armstrong and Miller........"it's kicking off, Pru"............

[Bernard]

To quote Armstrong and Miller........"it's kicking off, Pru"............


MUST HAVE BEEN BEFORE THE WORLD WAR !!..... FIRST WORLD WAR !!

ANONIMOUSE !

[John]

To quote Armstrong and Miller........"it's kicking off, Pru"............

:D :D :D

[Swamprat33]

Hi John. just been looking at the mods you have done to the rear top wishbone mount. Lionel just sent me a better photo to look at.

It certainly looks a damned site better than my crappy setup.

I am about to get mine redone, so will send pix when i get it completed.

Cheers

Tim

[Swamprat33]

Thanks, Lee. The rear end is substantially wider and higher, but still fits nicely under the bodywork.

Erm... John? Have you actually tried it under bodywork yet.

I know i gave you some measurements from my car, but starting to get nervous now :eek:

Tim

[SUSIT]

How much has the price gone up?

[SUSIT]

Also I dont like the use of square tube at the front bulkhead, why not complete the rollcage here by using CDS tube like the rest of the cage?

[John]

Hi Steve,
prices are still the same!
We had to move the chassis fabrication to another contractor, so we just took advantage of the opportunity to make the changes we wanted at the same time.
Do you mean the square section tube which forms the front bulkhead?
It facilitates suspension mounting points.
Of course we could include any full roll cage design which anybody would want. Not everybody wants a full-on competition car of course.
We stuck with the MSA approved design, for the time being.
Tim,
yes, don't panic, the bodywork fits!
Would be glad of a view of your own mods when complete.

[Swamprat33]

Sure thing John. Expect to get the work done in the next week or so.
All the rework will be done with a TIG welder, and the whole top wishbone mount will be refabricated.

I am hoping it will sort this problem out for good.

Tim

[Arthur]

Tim

Any chance of a pic or two of the finished job for a poorer man with own welding kit?

All the best
Arthur

[Swamprat33]

Most definately Arthur. May have to slow things down a little as my punto died today. Need to get the head gasket sorted out, then full steam ahead on the V6 again.

Tim

[Arthur]

Cheers, Tim

Where I am now, the sun's just over the horizon, fabulous view of Taranaki Bay, NZ, as we approach New Plymouth to anchor for 4 days.
Pity I'm looking at it from 114,000 deadweight tons of ocean-going tankship. Still, hoping to be home around the 5th April from Brisbane.

[Steve Strain]

Hi Arthur

Are you headed any where else in NZ? Perhaps Wellington?

regards

Steve

[Arthur]

Sorry, Steve, I only go where I'm told. I'm currently approaching Brisbane from the East, and I hope to be flying home 6th, arriving in sunny Manchester late 7th for a well-earned rest. The chance of getting off this thing is in any case very, very slim - we work to tight schedule, we have security, and all that carry-on.
I actually got off this thing one time in almost 5 months - new year day, Sydney. Didn't see the celebrations - we'd spent 20 days hanging around offshore, and saw sod-all. The fireworks were a dim glow on the horizon.
Romantic old life, isn't it?

Arthur.

[Marmott]

when will you be producing a Corse s chassis?
Gary

[John]

Hi Gary,
producing another "S" kit is now nearing the top of my "to do" list.
Now that this kit is on it's way to Italy we have some time to look at more modern donors for a strut suspension. With your experience in competition any input would be gratefully received.
Here is a picture of the new kit on it's way...

[John]

And this is how we export them... But before anybody says it, NOT on a trailer!! :D

[SUSIT]

John,
Got your PM will answer more fully later but i question why you would want to buid an S chassis again as the beauty of the Corse is you get the looks of a stratos but with (INMH) vastly improved suspension geometry.
The struts are not a problem if you did go ahead but the hubs and uprights would be the main issue. The top mount would be better being close to an original rather than using a seperate topmount as it allows for a much improved amount of travel in bump

Stephen

[John]

Steve,
thanks for that.
The desire to offer an "S" type chassis again is really at the request of customers.
Certainly in the States and also over here in Europe some potential customers are being put off a little because they cannot fit the original style deep dish wheels to the Corse as it currently stands.
Keeping the improved suspension geometry is not something I would be willing to sacrifice in the "I" chassis, but I am willing to work on a redesigned "S" chassis which could accommodate deep dish wheels, offer improved geometry over the original layout, and also hopefully utilize a donor component which should help to keep costs down. However, we like to offer a more complete kit. As you know the current "I" kit only uses the bare minimum of donor components in the kit as a whole and especially in the suspension. Question is can we do the same with a new "S" kit?

[Stratos]

John,

Could you not talk to one of the suspension suppliers to see if there would be a way to utilise the same hubs as the I but with a strut?

Nigel Killerby at AVO is a very helpful guy, and might be able to help you out.

Spherical top mounts are easily available for mounting the top end of the strut.

[SUSIT]

John,

Could you not talk to one of the suspension suppliers to see if there would be a way to utilise the same hubs as the I but with a strut?

Nigel Killerby at AVO is a very helpful guy, and might be able to help you out.

Spherical top mounts are easily available for mounting the top end of the strut.


Top mounts - you are right Dave and i have used ajustable top mounts with Bilsteins on the rear of my Allora however the top mount and adapter to get it all to fit take up considerable space that I could use to get more bump travel, close to 50mm if my measurements are correct so i have started again to redesign the top mount set up. watch this space. :)

[John]

Hi Dave,
thanks for your suggestions.
The cast alloy uprights are a significant cost in the "I" kit so if we can move to a donor component (like the Hawk) then there is a potential cost saving.
If we can bring the design in using new components from the specialists (like AVO) and offer the same "no donor" package as the "I" then so much the better.
Steve,
yes, quite apart from being able to fit deep dish wheels, increased suspension movement is a goal worth aiming for and attractive to the Rallying boys. I think that's what Gary is after!

[rutthenut]

Interesting to see the changes/improvements you have detailed here. Like the idea of 'self-jigging' parts for later chassis construction.

Regarding the choice of donor struts/uprights, I would suggest that whatever you choose, it would be good if it is (a) widely available, and (b) has uprated strut inserts readily available as aftermarket parts.

[CorseChris]

Re top mounts for struts on an S - I just fitted a pair of adjustable ones from Compbrake, and they take up less space than the old Beta units, allowing more bump if you need it. Roughly 20mm or so 'shorter' (the bottom of the ball is about 20mm below the mounting surface on the chassis). Just needed 2 new holes in the chassis as per Stephen @ Compbrakes instructions.

John, did you see those uprights that Wilwood are selling? They look promising for the front end.

[Stratos]

John,

I expect to be talking to Nigel Killerby at AVO within the next couple of weeks as I require some new struts for my Allora which is currently being rebuilt, so I could mention this to him then. (Thanks to your assistance with suspension parts, the Allora has now been straightened on the chassis jig, and is back with Keith.)

Might be useful to have a couple of pictures of the rear suspension of both the S and the I to show him, and let him comment on possibilities.

I know AVO aren't necessarily the cheapest possible option, but the quality of their units is very high.

[John]

JR, good points you make there of course, thanks.
I know that you guy's who are building or want to build Hawks can still find all the donor parts that you want to make your cars authentic despite the donor models becoming increasingly rare. For some it's half the fun!
The Corse makes no attempt at originality though, so we can be more flexible about what we use.
Chris, the Compbrake top mounts are the same as what John H is using are they not? Like this?

[John]

Dave,
thanks for the offer and I will forward you some pictures of the "S" and "I" setups shortly. Will you get them if I send an email through the forum?

[CorseChris]

Hi John,

I went for the offset type at the recommendation of Stephen at Compbrake - simple circular plate with 30 M8 holes and the large spherical joint mounted off-centre so you can adjust camber at the top end.

I had been using cam bolts to adjust the camber, which were fine, but this feels like a more repeatable setup for those occasions when it all has to come to bits....

[jadefarms]

JR, good points you make there of course, thanks.
I know that you guy's who are building or want to build Hawks can still find all the donor parts that you want to make your cars authentic despite the donor models becoming increasingly rare. For some it's half the fun!
The Corse makes no attempt at originality though, so we can be more flexible about what we use.
Chris, the Compbrake top mounts are the same as what John H is using are they not? Like this?
The Beta top mounts on my Hawk are in poor condition.
Are these a good alternative or are there other sources? :confused: Struan

[CorseChris]

AFAIK, Compbrake made these for Hawk originally? You might have a bit of a fiddle fitting adjustable ones to a Hawk, but the fixed ones John posted the picture of are a simple swap.

I'm sure there are many places to get top mounts, but you may as well stick with a known supplier - I found them very helpful.

[Stratos]

The top mounts are available from Demon Tweeks.

I think I got mine from TAS.

[Sptwoman]

Mine were from Compbrake. Originally supplied to Gerry so had to be quality!

[jadefarms]

Thanks guys, very helpful..:)
Struan

[John]

I Think TAS have gone to the wall. I was certainly told they had. Would not be surprised if Compbrake had or have taken over certain designs from them as I think they had a tie up personnel wise.

[Stratos]

John,

I had a feeling that TAS weren't around any longer, but I've been out of things for a while, so wasn't certain. Looking on the Compbrake site, their top mounts look like some of the stuff that I remember being in the TAS catalogue.

[Martin K]

I Think TAS have gone to the wall. I was certainly told they had. Would not be surprised if Compbrake had or have taken over certain designs from them as I think they had a tie up personnel wise.

I was on the TAS mailing list. When their newsletter stopped, I started getting mailings from Compbrake, so I think probably in some way Compbrake is TAS re-incarnated.

[John]

Just received some pictures from Italy. Looks like it's coming together nicely......!

[catswhiskers]

Hi John,
Good to see things are progressing in Italy.
Can't help thinking that engine looks to be sitting very high though. Rear visbility is going to be seriously impaired (not that it's good anyway):rolleyes:

Mick

[rutthenut]

Can't help thinking that engine looks to be sitting very high though.

I thought that too, but wondered if it's just because I am not used to that particular design of chasss/engine cradle.

[strat6v]

You can see that its half way up the rear window height and the grp roof probably isn't much higher over the cage top.

I think the 156/166 sumps are shallower but they won't suit the oil pickup pipe and strainer of the 164 lump.