abandoned projects: where's the blame?

[bigodino]

Hi all,

While I'm investigating the possibilities of buying a replica Strato's, the option of buying an abandoned project has also crossed my mind.

It would save a lot of trouble and time and it could be a relative bargain.

But I was wondering: why would someone abandon such a project, technically wise? What scares you kitcar builders the most? Electrics? Upholstery? Engine? Neccesary parts not avialable?

If I were to buy an abandoned project, I would certainly try to commission it to someone who could finish it. Sensible?

Thanks for your thoughts.

[Stratos]

A lot of them get abandoned because of the amount of time needed to finish them - not because any particular job is too difficult.

I've bought 2 abandoned projects for exactly that reason - one of them had never even been started.

[CorseChris]

Hi Peter,

Good question actually....

I've built two cars from scratch, rebuilt and re-engineered (if I can be allowed to use that term) another and am currently building my third.

Originally, I fully intended to buy a kit and start from scratch, but ended up taking on what could only be loosely described as a part-started kit - better description would be a pile of junk.

I did look at a part-started car but it was too expensive - this particular one is now nearing completion by Gerry Manalo (having been bought by him for a much more reasonable price than I was asked for it).

My point (eventually;) ) is that there probably isn't one single reason - they vary as much as the people making them.

David's point about time is probably one of the most common, or possibly more accurately, lack of commitment on the part of the builder. These things take a LOT of effort and can be very daunting at times. My first full build was a Westfield - went together like an Airfix kit and is still just as good now as it was 11 years ago when I built it. At no time in the short process of that build was it ever anything less than a pleasure. The second was a Cobra replica that I don't like to talk about..... this could so easily have become an unfinished project if I wasn't so stubborn.

Probably the next most common issue would be individual skills - some folk are good at bodywork, some are good with spanners, some are good with electrics. A very few are good at everything, quite a lot can't hold a spanner straight (not talking about anyone I know personally....). It seems unlikely that anyone falling into this latter category is ever going to complete anything as tricky as a Strat.

The unfinished Strat I looked at was in a sorry state and required a full strip before it could be built properly - Gerry has done this.

The history of my own car is very chequered. The first attempt failed at an early stage as far as I can determine - didn't get any further than aluminium panels on the basic chassis. The second attempt failed as it turned out to be quicker and cheaper to start with a fresh chassis than to repair what had been done before.... third attempt - frankly, I have absolutely no idea if the person I got it from was ever intending to build it or not - they even removed part of the roll cage....

Fourth attempt at getting this one built would be me.......and I haven't finished yet so it would be premature at this point to go any further

:D


Any conclusion?? Probably not - I think every case is likely to be slightly different but I bet lack money figures in them all.


Bet you wish you hadn't asked now don't ya ;)

[Matt No VAT]

I too went down the unfinished project route, thinking initially that the car was pretty well put together. However, as things have progressed I have asked myself on many occaisions whether I made the right choice. This is mainly due to the hidden things that surface when you least expect them.

As Chris says, the individual skills play a big part in the grand scheme, I'm happy swinging the spanners but electrics are my weak point. But even with my limited understanding of auto electrics, I know that 4 inch nails are not supposed to be part of the wiring loom!! Just one of the many surprises I've found and has lead me to check all the electrics for other 4 inch nails and the like.

The other thing is that most unfinished cars are based on the 2000 Beta engines, which most seem to want to convert to V6, so your already into a lot of work just to swap the engine configuration.

If I were to build another kit I'd probably go for a new kit next time. I've ended up stripping the car either because of the V6 conversion or checking everything out to ensure its all up to scratch.

I agree with Dave's point regarding the time element, this is a major factor and I can see why people get fed up with a car that is in pieces for a good 12/24 months, costing money but never being driven.

I'm still enjoying it though and cant wait for the end result....
:D

[manalog]

I also went for an unfinished project, it's a 1988 Transformer HF2000 and found that it is becoming more costly and frustrating specially if you were to buy an old kit where the parts doesn't fit properly or someone has already put together the kit very badly. I think mine had two or three previous owners before I bought it from Melvyn - I don't think Melvyn has worked on this car at all as he was already working on a Countach kit. When I bought my car I was quite optimistic but I ended up stripping the whole car, sandblasted everything and had them painted. I have been building this car for nearly 4 years now, Chris Savage and I bought our unfinished project almost at the same time and none of the cars are on the road yet, on my part is due to lack of time and commitment. . At one point I was so put off by the panel fittings that I stopped working on the car for a year!!! I also spoke to Graham Bates to do the bodywork for me.To build this car I now realised after talking to Kevin (he owns the Gold Transformer Stratos) needs a lot of commitment and determination and I am now more determine than ever to finish it.
I don't really know much about working with fibreglass but I will give it a try before I get Graham to do the work for me as the car is almost finish. Thanks to Chris Savage for giving me a lot of support and encouragement to finish the car on my own. If you have any tips on how to work with fibreglass it will be much appreciated. I need to know what type of sandpaper is the best to use, type of primer etc... At the moment I'm doing a crash course on fibreglass repair. The reason for this is because the doors seems to be a lot smaller than the door aperture!!! Must have shrunk in storage or perhaps someone was trigger happy with the hack saw - the latter is the most likely explanation.

IMHO it is best to go for a brand new kit. In the long term it will be less expensive and quicker to build and less headache. Good Luck

[CorseChris]

Thanks for the thanks Gerry - I shall now feel responsible for all your fibreglass related headaches :( But at least you can think of me struggling along with mine as well...:)

As both Gerry and Matt say, buying new is probably the more rewarding and less stressful route. Also quite likely to be cheaper long-term unless you get really lucky with what you buy. I know I have spent a lot more than I thought I would (not really a surprise). To be fair, I have brought a lot of this on myself by adding complications that most people are happy to live without in these cars (A/C, electric windows etc).

Matt's 4 inch nail wiring loom problem is a good indication of the sort of things people will get up to either in ignorance or through desperation. Usually not the sort of thing a typical Strat oner is likely to want to live with I should guess. One thing seems certain - things rarely get better the closer you look......

Best pre-enjoyed buy has to be a complete but untouched kit - rare beastie indeed.

Second-best is probably something like Gerard bought - a complete, pretty well sorted car with just a few trim/cosmetic jobs to complete.

And of course, they are never, ever finished :D

[chris.richard]

Depending on how far the part-build has gone, there might be some advantages. Mine had made it on the road, so I have no registration / SVA worries. All the sourcing of hard to get bits might have been done. However as someone just said, it rarely gets better the closer you look! I've found woodscrews holding bodywork and dashboard components on! Do you think it is something about the sort of person that doesn't finish kits?
What would be really good would be a kit that included virtually everything, for those of us that can assemble things, but aren't so good at truffling about on websites and breakers yards to find obscure / alternative solutions - I can't see Hawk ever doing that though. Whether the re-launched Corse will come like this wait and see!

[Matt No VAT]

I think Chris has hit upon a good point about the sourcing of bits and bobs, but I think thats where the club comes into its element as theres lots of people out there that have sourced hard to find items and have them tucked away or know who can supply them.

I choose to remove the electric windows and A/C from my car, all I want is a raw car, no frills, just a big V6 behind me with plenty of torque!

Anyway it adds excess weight to the car!!:D

[SUSIT]

You can always try to find one up and running in not too bad a condition. I found mine by accident complete with MOT and Tax. I will be the first to admit that there are better finished cars and more powerful cars. Its only an 1800 at the moment. but i get to drive it every day and its great. The fun i had in about 8 mins of competing at Abingdon would be worth double the cost of my car. Two ambitions in life now completed. To own a stratos Replica and compete in one. Plan is to get the bits together for the V6 conversion and uprate the brakes and suspension. The trick is to acheive them all without taking the car off the road for long periods. So brakes first suspension second then the V6. In between must get the car logbooked for rallying.
So keep looking all things come to those who wait.

Stephen Struthers

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by Matt No VAT
[B

Anyway it adds excess weight to the car!!:D [/B]

Matt, I add excess weight to the car!

[Sando]

Wow you've covered most things there.

I was lucky that I jumped at a chance to buy a car that had most of the expensive bits but the guy just threw them all together loosly at the car. In this respect it has been worth while because I probably have saved quite a bit of money and scrapyard grovelling! I've had to track the rarer bits down but all by post so still no grovelling in mud and oil !

On the other hand apart from the bodywork (G4 which he did do a reasonable job at) I've taken it all to bits and started again.

The worst bit was the wiring (92 Transformer/Hawk - I'm still not sure what I should call it !) and having spent many, many hours modifying to work properly with all the relays and SVA requirements etc. this would definitly have been better to have gone and baught a later more developed loom.

Originally I wanted to buy a fully built car and avoid SVA but couldn't afford the really good ones, and the cheaper ones I saw were just not worth the asking prices. I just fell on the right deal at the time. I'll keep the Beta engine in for now, to get through the SVA emissions, a V6 will be later addition one winter.

Do I have any regrets? No not really, after doing all this work (2 years so far and the car was for sale as 90% completed !!!!) I'm so attached to it it's unreal, I can really appreciate what the guys feel for theirs that have had them from 'birth' instead of being 'adopted'

Can't wait to get her on the road, should be a couple of months max :rolleyes:

PS to answer the original question. Should you commision someone to build it for you? You would have to trust them very much and have very deep pockets for the hundreds of hours work!
- It's great Great therapydoing it yourself.......I never knew I had so much determination and patience.
Good Luck
Rob:cool: