Campagnolo Wheels

[guy mayers]

I know that someone was trying to push new Campagnolo wheels at Abingdon last week (graham.earl@tiscali.co.uk 01442877876 or 07719122583) but Gerry Hawkridge is also testing the waters seriously. About time.
He is planning aluminium wheels only from a reputable UK manufacturer (he will have sole rights as he will pay for the tooling) and expects to produce 8" and 10" wheels with a choice of Ferrari or Alfa bolt patterns.
I want a set from somewhere but am not willing to commit to anyone until I get a firm price understandably.
Is anyone else seriously interested in a set? I understand that Graham Earl is planning to produce 12" wheels. All will be 15" diameter of course!
And does anyone know if Omicron got anywhere with producing 16" wheels as an alternative?
Guy

[rutthenut]

Guy, you mention that the coffin-spoke Group 4 wheels would be 15" diameter, but what about the other 'stradale' type?
Were/are they 14" or 15"?

(not that I'm looking to get a set of them anyway, but I don't have a copy of the leaflet)

[guy mayers]

7.5" * 14"

[mogul_x]

Originally posted by guy mayers
I know that someone was trying to push new Campagnolo wheels at Abingdon last week...Is anyone else seriously interested in a set?

I'm still in the market for a set of wheels for my car. I had been leaning towards the coffin-spoke Image wheels, but would consider alternatives if the price is right. Obviously, I wouldn't be going for 10" or 12" wide rims on my Stradale, though.

Since my car is a Stradale, I'd consider a set of replica Stradale wheels if they were available. Assuming they would fit Alfa 164 brakes and bolt pattern, naturally.

[guy mayers]

Hi Scott, Gerry is planning to produce wheels in 8" and 10". I don't know if I can squeeze 345's on a 10" rim but you should be able to fit the 8" fron and rear easily enough. That's what I've got on the front at the moment.
Guy

[mogul_x]

Guy,

Is Gerry only planning on doing the coffin spoke alloys, or was he also going to do the Stradale rims as well?

[guy mayers]

No Scott, just the coffin spoke rims although you could try graham.earl@tiscali.co.uk who was at Abingdon testing the water for both the coffin spoke and stradale wheels. You could even try Gerry who may have some of the original Stradale wheels lying around. But he's at Le Mans until next Tuesday......
Guy

[mogul_x]

Out of curiosity, does anybody know what the original lugnut pattern on the Stratos was? Is it the same as the Alfa 164 (5 x 98?) or was it different?

I'd also need to know about the diameter of the hole at the center of the wheel. Anyone know what it is?

Guy's suggestion about original Stradale wheels got me thinking. I don't suppose there's anybody who knows whether a Stradale rim will fit over 164 brakes.....

Cheers,

[guy mayers]

Alfa and Ferrari PCDs are different although Gerrys proposal would be drilled to suit either option.

[Steve_R]

Marchesini actually owns the original Campagnolo tooling for the coffin spoke wheels as well as a bunch of other 60's and 70's Ferraris and Lamborghinis. The coffin spoke wheels are pretty much made to order in magnesium. I checked on them about 5 years ago and they were available in 8x15 through 12x15 in 1" increments if I recall correctly. They were near $1000US per wheel back then so they're probably a little more now.

That said, I spoke to a restoration shop last year that had been waiting nearly a year for 8 wheels that they had already paid for.

If any of you have a motorbike, you'll know all about Marchesini wheels. They're just about the best wheels out there and used by all the top race teams.

-Steve

[Bob Planet]

:) Hi

Here is a photo of 16" wheel made in Australia. It is aluminium. It can be drilled to any 5 stud pattern. It will come in 3 widths 7.5", 9" 12" Almost ready for production. Is any one interested.

[guy mayers]

Have you got a picture of the 12 inch wheels? I suspect there could be interest from up to 10 people!
Thanks,
Guy

[Cloggie]

Bob,
Great to hear from you! This looks and sounds fantastic! You could have many immediate Customers for your wheels!!

Please can you provide more information:

- Picture of your rear wheel design (9 & 12")

- General drawings of the wheels showing the offset depth of the wheels on the various rim widths, etc.

- Detials of finish and grade of Aluminium used

- Price, delivery and leadtime of individual

- Details of discount if a bulk order was placed

Looking forward to your info.

Thanks, Nico/

[guy mayers]

Hi, just a little query! I currently run 345*35*15 tyres on the back (obviously) but if I went to a 16 inch rim what tyre size should i use to keep the same rolling radius on a 12 inch wide wheel? And is that size readliy available? No point in spending a large sum on wheels if the tyres can't be had!
Guy

[mogul_x]

Guy,

A 345*35*15 would be about the same as a 345*30*16, if there is such a beast. A quick look at Tirerack.com didn't turn up any available sizes in that range.

Then again, the only 345 series tire I could find on Tirerack was the 345*35*15. Didn't see anything in 16" or 17" that was close.

I did find lots of choices in sizes appropriate for 16" wheels on a Stradale, though.:)

[Steve_R]

Scott - Check out 315/35-17's ... it's the stock size for the Viper and is meant to fit on a 12" rim. I bought a set of Michelin MXX-3's a few years ago on sale in that size and they just barely fit with the early GP4 arches if I trim the return flange on the wheel arch back a bit. As for fitting under a Stradale rear fender, it doesn't seem likely without the GP4 square arches.

I've heard really good reviews on the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 (also availble in that size) for what it's worth.

The 315/35-17 is about 0.8" bigger in diameter than the 345/35-15. I did notice that the Pirelli PZeros Assimetrico's come in 345/35-15 for those of you who want an alternative to the Yoko's.

16" seems like an orphaned wheel size, there's hardly anything in that size with a decent width.

-Steve

[Cloggie]

Hi Steve,
For what it's worth, I'm using the Pirelli PZeros Assimetrico's in 345/35-15 and they're great, much better than the Yokahama's.

[guy mayers]

Me too, and they are a huge improvement over the Yokos especially on the wet! I've tried both!
Guy

[mogul_x]

Originally posted by Steve_R
Scott - Check out 315/35-17's ... As for fitting under a Stradale rear fender, it doesn't seem likely without the GP4 square arches.
Oh, I wasn't planning on it! My car probably won't be seeing anything much wider than a 215, since I want to keep the same size wheel / tire at all four corners. I just need to settle on a wheel diameter.

At least, that's the plan now. Maybe I will opt for a slightly wider rim on the rears, but certainly nothing in the wide arch range.

16" seems like an orphaned wheel size, there's hardly anything in that size with a decent width.
Certainly not in a width / profile combination appropriate to a Stratos rear. Either not wide enough, or too high a profile, from the looks of things.

[Steve_R]

I've had the old AVS's (on and X 1/9) and the PZeros (on a '95 twin turbo RX-7). I agree completely ... there's no comparison wet or dry. I know those two cars are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but I drove the wheels off both of them and hated the AVS's.

Scott - I thought you were sticking with the Stradale bodywork, but you never know. It seems like there are only a few choices in 16's. Just enough to replace tires on OEM applications. 17" tires are even getting sparse compared to what's available in 18". If I get a chance, I'm going to photoshop some 17" wheels on a Stratos just to see how big they really are.

-Steve

[Bob Planet]

Hi Nico

Here is rear wheel casting photo as requested.

Bob

[guy mayers]

Bob, that's a beautiful looking wheel! I'm still very interested in a set and I'm sure that there are lots of others as well but my ONLY concern is the availability of tyres that will fit under the Group 4 arches. I currently have 345s on the back but I haven't been able to find anything available in a reasonable width to fit a 12 inch wide rim! Do you have any suggestions and a picture of a wheel and tyre mounted on the car?

[Cloggie]

Bob,
Thanks for coming back to me, and for the photo.

I have the same interests, but also concerns and thoughts as Guy. I await your recommendations...

In the meantime, I was hoping you could please provide me with the following information:

Please can you provide more information:

- General drawings of the wheels showing the offset depth of the wheels on the various rim widths, etc.

- Details of finish and grade of Aluminium used

- Price, delivery and leadtime of an individual wheel set order (4)

- Details of discount if a bulk wheel order was placed (20+)

Looking forward to your info however, if you preferred to talk about price and other commercial issues offline, please contact me via Email on secretary@stratclub.com.....

Hope to hear from you soon.

Regards, Nico/

[Ken Tomblin]

During a conversation I had with Chris Smith yesterday he mentioned that he has found 20 new 285/40X15 tyres complete with E mark, they are a good choice for 12"X15" rims as used on the original group 4 cars and I currently have them fitted to my Rothmans car.
Give Chris a ring for details of cost etc.

[Jeff Davison]

Pirelli's or Yoko's?
Does Chris have an email address ? Contact info?

Thanks!

Jeff Davison

[Media]

I would be very interested in a set of 15"Coffin Spoke Wheels for a new build Group 4 Stratos, subject to availability and cost. Any feedback Guy from Gerry on this. Please add my name to the list of those who are interested in a set.

[guy mayers]

Jeff - did you get a contact number for Chris Smith? If not, email me privately and I'll send it across.
This thread has gone quiet this week. I've had two more people ring me and express an interest in these wheels, I asked them to post here to show interest and hope they will still do so! But, in the meantime, we await Bobs next posting with news of any progress!
Guy

[lyndon]

. GUY,.
you can put me down for a set of wheels but they will be for the stradale, sorry for the delayed reply but i,ve just arrived home from hols.

lyndon.

[Jeff Davison]

Guy,

Never recieved contact info :(

Jeff

[STR470S]

Jeff,

Chris's daytime phone number is 01858 880580.

Chris

[mogul_x]

Guys,

I've gotten confused over which wheels everyone is signing up for - is it the 15" replica wheels that Gerry Hawkridge is investigating, or the 16" wheels that Bob Planet showed us?

Or have we moved on to new 17" replica coffin spokes due to tire choices? :confused:

[guy mayers]

It's gone quiet on all fronts at the moment. I haven't heard from Bob Planet for a while and I assume that there is a problem with the rear wheels. The fronts look fine and should suit anyone with a Stradale for both ends of the car but I haven't heard if they are in production yet. From the pictures on the site it looks as if tyres are available. As for those of us with the Gp4 cars it looks like we'll have to wait until someone comes up with 15" rims. I am not sure which diameter Gerry was looking into but I will try to talk to him at Donnington this coming weekend and post an update next week.
Guy

[Jeff Davison]

I'm on board with gerry and the 15's

Jeff Davison

[chris.richard]

If Bob Planet has the goods in pre-production, as it seems from the photos, would Gerry really go ahead with a competing tooling & manufacture?

Nico, did Bob ever answer any of your questions posted above?

[Bob Planet]

Hi Everyone,

Nico has had a long talk about the 16" wheels and has a lot more information.

Best regards
Bob Planet

[chris.richard]

Any further news on this?

[rutthenut]

Gerry's position on this - as I understand it - is that he would only want to manufacture wheels of the original size and design, so 15" diameter and correct style, offset and width for front and rear of Group 4 cars (or front style all round for Stradale cars).

He needs to know for sure whether or not he can get the required number of sales before he can commit to the not inconsiderate tooling costs (many thousands of pounds) and subsequent purchase and storage of a large number of wheels as a minimum order quantity is currently required. That may improve, but he still needs to numbers of potential and actual sales.

Anyone interested should make sure that Gerry knows about them, and also to check on the likely costs for a full car set of Grp.4 or Stradale wheels.

[omicron]

15" magnesium repro wheels for genuine bolting pattern already available in Europe.

Our 16" wheel project was in association with an Australian company who won't reply to our emails or faxes. Whats the latest???

[rutthenut]

Forgot to make that important distinction - the wheels that Gerry is planning for will be in aluminium, not magnesium.

They would be offered in alternative PCD's (all five-stud, I believe) for original fitment as well as the Lancia/Alfa five-stud pattern as on the Evo Integrale and Alfa 164.

I don't know any more about these plans though, I think Nico and Guy have been more involved. Hopefully they can post any further info if they know of it - whether sourcing wheels through Gerry or possibly elsewhere. Not that there is enough demand for multiple manufacturers of this particular item!

Regards,

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by omicron
Our 16" wheel project was in association with an Australian company who won't reply to our emails or faxes. Whats the latest???

Is that the Bob Planet operation that has been teasing us here with photos but no info?

[Cloggie]

Hi Folks,
First of all, my apologies for not being in touch on the "Wheel Situation" recently, but all my other club priorities have taken my recently limited time, and I;ve not followed this up with the rigor I wanted.

However, I'm going to be travelling abroad for the next 2 weeks, so I always find that an effective way of getting lots of Club stuff done in the evenings!!

The Replica Wheel situation is now getting complicated. We have two new options (other than the expensive Techno route..):

- 15" Exact Replica Wheels from Gerry Hawkridge in UK
- 16" Authentic Replica Wheels from Bob Planet in Australia

As you can see from John and Guys posts, Gerry is CONSIDERING a 15" wheel project, but as yet has not committed on tooling, pricing, timing, etc. Although he did receive an indication from me of how many people are interested. So, at the moment, in my view, this is a long term possibility only ....

Regarding the Bob Planet wheel offering, here's the background and current situation:

I spoke with Bob Planet at length during my holiday and he did give me the whole story about his wheels, and what he could help us with.

Main points were as follows:

- Had an accident with his original car, damaged his wheels and couldn't find replacements.

- Decided to make his own! (As you do!) Found an after-market wheel manufacturer, and originated center tooling. (16 inch)

- Made 2 sets of wheels, painted and finished, and has been using them for a couple of years now.

- Did have agreement with Omicron for 20 sets, but for some reason, this didn't happen.....

- Has shown his car in Australia, and has had orders for 3 more sets of wheels for original / Replicas.

- Would like to work with the club so he can continue to re-coup some of the money that he invested in the tooling.

- Would like us to gather our potential needs (# of wheels and rim widths) and come back to him with an idea of lot size.

- He can then get prices and delivery times to us. Obviously, it be more cost effective the bigger the lot size.

- In the meantime, he's prepared to make 2 sample wheels, and send them over to let people see what they'd be getting.

- If the samples are good, and we like what we see, then he'd expect an order.

- He did insist making only 16", and 5 stud, but could go to any PCD or rim width (7.5, 9, or 12") or offset.

- He could also do powder coat painting and finishing if required, but it was optional.

- He didn't commit on prices, but I think he's talking around 300 GBP / wheel plus shipping, etc.

On the technical side, there's a potential "risk" that the welding of the wheel could be a weakness, but I've really not got any information yet about the magnitude of the risk. II need to get the pro's and con's of welded wheels. Obviously cast wheels which are either cast (complete with rim or with a circuar ring of luminium at a diameter of the center that is then cold rolled out to the required rim
width) have a homogenous material structure, but you do have much higher tooling costs.

So, that's where we are with Bob Planet, but the next stage is to see if any of the folks who expressed an interested in Replica wheels is prepared to accept Bob's 16 inch welded version.

My first step would be to ask everyone. Here's the list I'm going use as the basis of the potential buying group, and to communicate to:

- Gerry (Might buy some!)

- Nico (8)

- Chris Smith (4)

- Phil Dolby (4)

- Scott McGill (4)

- Mark and Marcia (4)

- Others (4-12)? (I've had 3 enquiries from others..)

I'm guessing without Gerry buying for future kit sales, we could probably get 30-38 wheels made, and if Gerry did buy some, it be a number maybe nearer 50 wheels! That's certainly going to be interesting to find out more from Bob when I get back to him with a potential buyer requirement list.

So, that's were we are in the process. I'm going to get a firmer quotation and commitment from him on the price and delivery, hopefully in the next few days, and then come back to you.

Please let me know if you have any questions, but in the meantime, I'll be contacting all these folks in the next few days to firm up requirements

Cheers, Nico/

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Cloggie
Found an after-market wheel manufacturer, and originated center tooling. (16 inch)
...
On the technical side, there's a potential "risk" that the welding of the wheel could be a weakness, but I've really not got any information yet about the magnitude of the risk.
...
Here's the list I'm going use as the basis of the potential buying group, and to communicate to:

- Gerry (Might buy some!)

Nico, I hadn't realised that these 16" rims consisted of a centre piece and a welded split-rim design. In that case, I'd be more than a little surprised if Gerry would even consider them!

It's not just a case of technical risk, but more a case of Gerry only wanting things that are designed and manufactured to his requirements and standards.

To me, this sounds like something of a bodge - albeit with benefits in varied rim widths and offsets, and not necessarily manufactured poorly in any way (no intention to slate the production, of which I have no knowledge). If having split rims, then trying to cover this up by welding the parts seems wrong to me (IMHO though).

I also thought that coffin-spoke style centres were already available for split-rim wheels in the UK. In any case, that does kind of prevent getting a really accurate copy of the original design, as the spoke overlaps the rim and is shaped differently for front and rear wheels on Group 4 cars.

Enough from me on this topic anyway, just commenting on my own views as an interested observer rather than a potential or likely customer.

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by Cloggie
but could go to any PCD or rim width (7.5, 9, or 12") or offset.

Is that "any rim width as long as it is 7.5, 9 or 12"?

Good sleuthing Nico.

I'm impressed that someone couldn't buy the wheels so made his own!

[omicron]

16" wheels.

We had the moulds made from our own set of genuine 15" wheels. We were unable to give selling prices to our customers because Australia never provided cost prices to us.

A sample wheel was promised which never arrived. We were not dealing with anyone called "Bob Planet".

15" wheels.

They have been remade in, I believe, magnesium rather than aluminium. These are for original cars or those using the same fitment as original.

Wheel manufacture in the UK

We can get wheels made in the UK to either 15" or a 16" formats - but we would need to place an order in the region of 100-120 wheels. There would be no international shipping, and no import duty to remember to add on to the costs.

The benefit of a split rim design is that it makes making different width designs very easy. I would have to talk to the UK wheel manufacturer if there was sufficient interest to see what could be done and what costs.

[Zarathustra]

Greetings Gentlemen from the left coast of The United States of Terrorism,

If people are interested in accumulating a group of people to either help fabricate or buy reproduction Stratos wheels, why not enlist the help of the various Lancia clubs around the world?
More importantly, has anyone contacted Thomas Popper to see if he can contact the owners in his database? (Thomas maintains a registry). Thomas can be reached at: stratos@iawhk.com

On a different note, there are some beautiful period pictures of strati at: www.geocities.com/simontmallett/stratosgal.html

Cheers,
Gary Robinson

[Andrew Way]

As I'm also interested in a set of campagnolo's for my stradale I thought everyone might find this interesting

http://www.lancia-stratos.de/Bilder/Felgen_01.jpg

Anyone know anything about these? Are they originals (£££ and probably magnesium that past its best) or repo?

Andrew.

[SUSIT]

They look like they have the original PCD. wont fit many replicas with that?

[tryphon]

Hi,

That's a coincidence! I contacted the guy just the day before yesterday.
These wheels are the same as the ones I've talked about higher up in this thread. A front wheel moulding was used to make both front and rear wheels so the rears do not look like the original.

Don't go into the trouble of asking him how much he wants for them, here are the prices:

9" x15 each 1.375 €
8" x15 each 1.350 €

Up to you to judge but I find them extremely expensive, I would be prepared to pay that kind of money on the originals but not copies.

Cheers,
Tryphon

[Chris J]

The wheels in photo that Andrew Way included a link to, ARE all the same as the original Works Stratos Campagnolo 15".

Remember that ONLY the narrow (8") should have the spokes reaching to the very outer rim. The wider rims ALL had shorter spokes. The deeper the dish, the greater the angle to support the rim as it gets further away from the hub.

The white one in the foreground looks like a 12", but the wide gold ones further back look like 9"s or !0"s. You can see that the spoke are different on each wheel depending on the rim width.

Chris

[tryphon]

The wheels in the picture the link refers to are indeed the original.
However those sold by Mr. Sparwald and for the price I have already mentionned are not.
I attach pictures of the wheels that are for sale:

[tryphon]

Another one:

[colin artus]

At the prices he is asking i think this lot will be hanging around on his shelves for quite some time. I cant see how a single cast wheel should be more than £400.

Colin

[rutthenut]

Roberto Cassetta is selling remanufactured wheels in either magnesium or aluminium alloy.

Initial sizes available are 8x15 and 10x15, with 9x15 and 12x15 to follow (maybe available already). Don't know if they are all drilled for original stud pattern or not, so may not fit Alfa hubs.

Prices are in the region of 1,000 Euros for magnesium wheels and 800/900 Euros for aluminium. These prices may be for trade sale only, with bulk orders of ten or more to be purchased. The prices may also be out of date, so apologies if they are wrong, but this is a guideline at least.

Cheers all

[tryphon]

Cassetta's wheels are exactly the same as Sparwald's, only cheaper. I guess they were manufactured by the same company.

Believe me our only choice is to make a batch ourselves based on the original patterns. All others I've seen are bad copies and very expensive.

[rutthenut]

OK Tryphon, thanks for clearing up the issues with some of these suppliers. I know Nico has been 'going around the houses' in trying to source this type of wheel too.

Well, it does at least look as though accurate replicas of the Campag wheels are now going to be produced by Gerry Hawkridge, but that will depend on firm commitments and orders before tooling is paid for. If you will want any yourself, do contact him - if you don't hear from him or Nico first, that is!

The prices of the resultant wheels (aluminium only) is certainly going to be an improvement on those listed so far.


One further question for you Tryphon - have you considered joining the Stratos Enthusiasts Club? (see www.stratclub.com for some further info, or contact me, Nico or Guy - or David Watson)

I expect Nico will contact you soon to try and 'twist your arm', but the club is aiming to cater for owners and enthusiasts of the original cars as well as for the replica guys. By joining, you will also get the newsletter, which I hope you would enjoy reading, and could also benefit from any content you would care to provide for the rest of the club readership. Anyone joining from now to the end of the year can expect to get their membership for the following year included in the price.

[Chris J]

John

An order to cast a number of wheels made by a few (a lot of?) club members would be cheaper WITHOUT involving Gerry, who would want to make a profit, how ever small, wouldn't it?

I realise that Gerry is exactly the sort of person who could make it all happen, though. Is that something to take into consideration?

I'm not one to knock Gerry, ...without him I would never have had a Stratos. And I'm not the first one to say that. You've gotta make these things clear, have'nt you?

Chris

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Chris J
An order to cast a number of wheels made by a few (a lot of?) club members would be cheaper WITHOUT involving Gerry, who would want to make a profit, how ever small, wouldn't it?

This is a commercial venture, so yes there is an element of profit involved for Gerry - he does have a somewhat altruistic nature but this does hold an element of financial risk and he will balance that against the potential return on the exercise.

Besides the not inconsiderable costs of tooling to be covered by the sale of these wheels, there is the issue of minimum order levels from the manufacturers. Someone has to stump up the money for all of these, then store them for however long it may take to sell them all.

The club can't do this, and I'd suggest that none of the individuals concerned are likely to manage it either. So, it has to be done by a business of some sort - there is nothing to stop anyone else going this route if they want, but as you indicated, Gerry is someone who will make this happen. Others have tried with apparently little in the way of results, or with prices that seem unreasonable for the products on offer.

Consider that of the number of wheels that must be bought and paid for from the manufacturer, it could be some years before they are all sold. This isn't a small volume, quick return project. I don't know the costs and margins concerned, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did not even cover it's costs before perhaps 80 percent of the initial batch were sold. And that may take a long time, even ignoring the costs of storage and the cashflow implications of holding expensive stock for any amount of time.

Setting it up with the involvement of the club is to protect both the buyers and the seller, so that financial risk is reduced. The buyers are fully protected if manufacture does not proceed, and the seller (Hawk Cars) have the guarantee of a certain number of sales before committing to the expenditure needed to realise a return on the investment. More will be posted on this soon, allowing all parties the option of committing to purchase at a discounted price from the first batch of wheels to be made.

Nico has tried many other 'suppliers' to try and get these wheels, but it seems that none have actually come up with the goods, or that those available may be of different sizes or designs to the originals, and/or at very high prices. You should ask him about his frustrations in dealing with these other people, and his confidence that this solution will be workable and affordable.

That's my two-pence worth for this morning, anyway!

Regards,

[Chris J]

John

Thanks for the two pence.

Just out of interest.

I talked to a ‘Jumbo’ Robinson of Taylor’s Foundry Ltd. of Haverhill Suffolk at the 2002 Autosport Show about the possibility of casting road wheels.

I got him to give my a quote based on overall sizes for 8 x 15” and 12 x 15” wheels and gave him very good close up photographs of Ken Tomblins’s Technomagnesio front and rear wheels. I asked for a price for one set and four sets, although he said at the show that a minimum order would be ONE wheel!

This is what he supplied me with:



Price would be same for 4 or 16 off

8” wheel

Pattern equipment £975.00
Castings fully machined £244.64

12” wheel
pattern equipment £1040.00
Castings fully machined £303.70

We would require an example of each wheel to copy for the pattern equipment.
Trust the above is satisfactory, if however you have any queries please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards jumbo




As I understood the estimate, and with VAT added, I worked out that one set (two fronts and two rears) would cost £3,656.22

And one of four sets would cost £1880.51.

When the Technomagnesio items were still being advertised as available in this country in April 1998 the quoted price for two 8x15” and two 12x15” wheels from Ian Elvin of AutoTorano, Salisbury, including VAT was £2643.75 + £15.00 delivery. Before VAT, 8”s were £500 each and 12”s were £625. Silly prices I know, but I thought that was the going rate for such rare car parts. I would have ordered some at the time had I known that they would soon become unavailable. I was a bit skint back then, and I didn’t want to go over two and a half grand further into the red. Usually my heart rules my head though. I’m sure that some time in the future Italian cars WILL bleed me dry!

I hope the above information is of some use.

By the way, the Technomagnesio wheels are definitely no longer available from anywhere aren’t they? I read earlier on in this thread that someone had a notion that you could still get hold of them. That can’t be right surely?


Chris

[rutthenut]

Chris, that manufacturer sounds like they could be/could have been worth dealing with.

It certainly makes a difference on the costs if the minimum order quantity is reduced. The tooling costs also need to be amortised over the sales figures and it clearly helps if these are reduced.

I am sure that Nico and Gerry will look at those prices, but may have concerns about the reliability of the manufacturer and the quality of the product - that depends on whether they already make wheels and can point to existing customers for reference.

That aside, I am under the impression that the original Campag's are indeed no longer available, although with the various would-be suppliers talking about copies of them, it is hard to be completely certain. I thought I had heard that TechnoMagnesio had the tooling at some stage and that this was then destroyed, but that could be incorrect, through the mists of time and the effect of Chinese Whispers (or should that be Italian Whispers?).

Since I'm not actually looking to buy some of these five-stud wheels anyway, I'll butt out now. Thanks for the additional information anyway. It seems that there is little than can be depended upon - other than the fact that getting wheels of this type and size is never going to be a cheap, or easy, exercise!!!

[guy mayers]

I have to agree with all Johns' comments regarding the sourcing of the wheels and Gerrys' involvement. This project will need someone willing to take a risk to get the ball rolling and anything the Club can do to help Gerry is being done. He is the only one with the ability, position, respect and contacts to do this in my humble opinion! And he's already been there with the Cobra wheels.......

Whilst suggestions from alternative suppliers are always welcome I for one would want to know a lot more about the potantial manufacturer first. What else has he produced, examples of satisfied customers (or otherwise) and proof of product liability insurance would be nice!

You can be assured that the Committee is aware of the subcontractor Gerry has been talking to for some time now but that this IS commercially sensitive information and it will not be disclosed to anyone except by Gerry. Suffice to say they know what they are doing.

So, all I can add is, be patient, things are happening and watch this space for more news from Nico soon.


PS Is this really the longest thread we've ever had? What did I start!
Guy

[Andrew Way]

Before I re-mortgage the house for a lovely set of coffin spokes I’ve just had a thought! :eek:

I’ve never seen a Stradale with coffin spokes all round. Do the 8” rims look OK on the back of the car? Has anyone got a picture of a Stradale with 8” rims all round?:confused:

[Jeff Davison]

Here's I piccy

JD

[Jeff Davison]

'nother

[Jeff Davison]

'nother angle

[Jeff Davison]

1 more

[Jeff Davison]

last 1

[Jeff Davison]

The wheels look to be narrow at the rear, but the tires look to be the wrong size.

Jeff

[rutthenut]

The first picture, of a car with white wheels, appears to have the same sizes front and rear, with the same spoke/rim design. So I'd guess that they are 8" rims all round.

The photos of the car with gold wheels shows a different spoke/rim design on the rear wheels, which is what differentiates the 8" and 12" wheels. They do not look like 12" rears, which would not fit under the Stradale arch. So are these 10" wheels?

The wide track of that car would suggest that they are, along with the apparent tyre size.

My own car has 8" wheel rims all round and they fit under the Stradale arches quite easily. In fact, they could do with more offset to give a wider track to reach the outer edges of the arch, so I have used wheel spacers to make a better setup. I think that a 10" rim can fit the standard rear arch, but it would depend on the offset as to whether or not you could get away with it.

Any views on whether these gold rears are 10" width then?

I believe that the campag's were available in 8", 10" and 12", but don't know what the difference in design is between all of these. Perhaps that is what you can see in these wheel types.

[omicron]

Campagnolo supplied wheels as standard in 8", 9", 10" and 12" widths.

[Steve_R]

At least that is what I was told by the Marchesini importer here in the US. I know of one company who had tried to get them to make some but it seems like they aren't really interested in it unless they can make a reasonable batch of them. Roberto Marchesini bought the original tooling from Tecno when they were bought out. I was told that they had the original tooling for all of the Campy wheels of that period (Alfa, Ferrari BB, Lambo Miura, etc.)

They are the originals and Marchesini makes excellent magnesium wheels. He makes the factory Ducati bike wheels as well as a bunch of other factory bike wheels. I'm sure they wouldn't be cheap, but I'd try to contact them first and see what kind of minimum order they want and how many kidney's you'll have to sell.

-Steve

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but even if we can get the rims, don't we still have the problem of finding tires to put on them.

I've looked around a bit (Pirelli, Avon, Michelen, Goodyear, Hoosier). There are a few choices for the 8" width but there seems to be very little for 10" or 12". There is the Pirelli P-Zero Asym, in 345 35R 15 and that's about it. I don't think these will fit the 10" rims Gerry is working on though so you'll be stuck buying 12" originals or the 3 piece. You can also get some Avon tires that might work (As seen on the original Marlboro liveried car running historic rallies recently) but these don't seem to be DOT/E certified and it looks like the tread has to be hand cut.

I'm starting to wonder if the best (which to me means affordable wheels and easy to find affordable tires) solution might be to get the 3 piece repro rims with 8x16" fronts and 10x17" rears. It wouldn't look exactly right but it would be very close and affordable and there is plenty of rubber available.

Is this a terrible idea and do you think the 17" rears would fit under the rear arches?

John B.


PS - See Jeff, told you I'd post something. :D

[tryphon]

I have to agree on the tire issue, this is a big concern.

If repro wheels are made they must be 16", I wouldn't go for the 17" as these are too far off the original.

In 16" the tire choice is vast.

The 10" wheels will not fit 345 tires you have to use 12".

Cheers,
Tryphon

[David May]

Yup, that's the real problem these days. I'm not sure that 16" has much to offer in really wide sizes and appears to be a dying breed. The 17" or 18" sizes seem a much better bet for the future but I personally don't like the appearance of a Stratos on ultra-low profile tyres.

Dave May

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

I agree that the 17" rim is probably too big but I haven't found any 285(ish) tires for the 16" ones. I just don't think the G4 arches look right whithout at least a 10" rear.

John B.

[tryphon]

10" is the size to go for for the rear. Will fit happily 255 or 285. 12" is really too much especially in these diameters.

I think that 16" will be around for quite some time as it's a first fit in many very large production models (VW and Audi for instance). Additionally 16" will not make the Stratos look like some kind of "tuning" derivative.

I would very stongly suggest that if we make replica wheels they are made in 16".

Tryphon

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

I agree - 10" rears look best but I'm starting to think that maybe 7x16" fronts and 9x16" rears are going to be the best we can do. I'm seeing widths from 205-255 in the 16" but no 285's. Most of the Pirelli's are available in these sizes including the P-Zero C (competition model). The rears would probably look a bit thin but not too bad. Maybe we could use a thin spacer to widen the stance and fill the arch better. I've also heard that the car drives better on the skinnier rears (compared to the 345's I've got now).

Anybody got an opinion on this?

John B.

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

As a correction, I found one 16" tire in 255 but a lot in 245 including The Pirelli P-Zero C and almost all of the Michelin Pilot series.

John B.

[Zarathustra]

John,
Gerry is having 12" rears reproduced, not 10". The Pirelli PZero 345/35 YR 15 fit these 12" rims perfectly and they're too wide for a 10" rim anyway. This is one of the best tires out there.

The purists are going with 15" coffin spoke wheels. Those seeking choice and function can mount 16" 308 Ferrari wheels or minilites or whatever strikes their fancy.

I would like to encourage everyone contemplating wheels to get behind Gerry's effort. He is commendable for helping create parts for the Lancia and he's the spiritual father of replicas out there.

Cheers!

[Cloggie]

Folks,
It's great to see lots of healthy discussion still going on about wheels!

Just want to make sure everyone is clear on some of the facts on the SEC and Hawk Cars replica wheel project:

- Initially we will only be making tooling for 15"x8" and 15"x12" coffin spoke wheels, sold in sets for stradale or group 4 cars.

- The wheels will be exact copies of the original Campagnolo design so they will fit original and replica cars.

- The only design change is a slightly thinner rim wall section shown as a larger internal rim diameter (good for bigger discs and calipers) as the wheel technology of today is better than that of 30 years ago.

- Many club members are or have run 285 and 345 tires on 12 inch rims, and those who have ordered wheels are also going to do the same.

- 15" tires are difficult, but not impossible to find. Yokohama and Pirelli do still make tires in these sizes, and are still on the product lists of these 2 companies.

- The SEC has taken the initiative to support the re-creation of the original wheels. I would propose (although this would need to be supported by the SEC membership) that the next project we will support will be the manufacturing / sourcing of a batch of tires that again would be done as a consortium in the club.

It could be temping to go for a 16" diameter wheel, but I personally think this is modifying a major element of the car which gets away from the original ethos of the car.

I hope these facts and points of view do not deter any of you from thinking about ordering a set of the Hawk Cars wheels. I'm going to start a new thread that Guy and I will use to update everyone on how the orders are going.....

I can assure you, in the same way the SEC committee has met the requests of the membership in developing these wheels, we will do the same if necessary for tires to fit these wheels.

I hope this clarifies.

Cheers, Nico/

[guy mayers]

Hi all, I hope I am not preempting a post by Nico on the wheels subject. We will be starting a new thread very soon to keep you all informed of the progress of the project, those in the club will have received an order form with their last newsletter this week. Earlier in this thread Bob Planet posted details of a 16" wheel he has manufactured to suit his Stradale and has said that there are also rear wheels available for the Group 4 cars. However, no one has been able to provide me or anyone else with a tyre size that has the same rolling radius and will fit the 16" wheel for the Group 4 body. Nor have I been able to find any manufacturer who makes such a size. And that will exclude anyone wanting copy wheels for a Group 4 car. The majority of peolpe expressing an interest are after Group 4 wheels!
To my mind there is no point in replicating what Bob Planet has already done. If you want 16" wheels for the rear of a Stradale then Bobs should fit but there are no prices available, ours are now published so you can make an informed decision.
On the subject of rear wheel widths the choice is either 10" or 12" widths. There are tyres to fit either BUT the 285*40*15 width is notoriously difficult to obtain. I have never had any difficulty getting the 345*35*15. Having tried both Yokohama and Pirelli on my car I can tell you that my car will only ever have the Pirellis fitted. They are far superior, especially in the wet, on the Stratos.
As has been pointed out, the 345 section will not compress onto a 10" wide rim. However, the 285 will stretch to the 12" rim very easily.
Ken Tomblin has kindly loaned his original wheels for copying and he uses the 285 section on his 12" rims. We therfore have a choice by manufacturing the 12" wheel that wouldn't be available if we made a 10" rim.
I'd also like to echo what "Zarathustra" has just posted, the purists are only ever going to be interested in the 15" wheels and that is going to include a lot of owners of the replicas! Whilst praising Gerry for getting this project off the ground a lot of effort has also been provided by Nico Alonzi, our Club Secretary, and without a joint effort between him and Gerry together with the very generous loan of precious original wheels by Ken Tomblin the project would not have started let alone be where it is today.
Thanks to all you guys! Whilst nothing is guarateed yet I think we will end up with copy Coffin Spokes early next year.
Please keep watching this thread and the news to be posted on the new one soon!
Guy

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

That's great - I'm certainly glad Gerry is making the 15" replica wheels. You make it sound a bit like we're not supporting Gerry or the club by considering other options though.

It doesn't seem like it would be too hard for Gerry to put together a 3 piece wheel with the coffin spoke center and 16" diameter sides in any width we wanted. He'd still make a profit and we'd get our tire choices.

Seems like a win-win situation to me.

I have a set of almost new P7's I'd love to mount on the 15" replica wheels, but I'd only use them for show. There's no reason I can't have one set of each now, is there?

John B.


(added 'set' to last sentence for clarity)

[Zarathustra]

Very few people would want to pay for engineering and producing multiple sizes of 3 piece wheels.

With over 400 Stratos out there and who knows how many replicas, I would imagine most would prefer to keep their cars as original as possible. It doesn't appear that Gerry is out to make much profit in this endevour. Reproducing original parts is the most prudent marketing decision.

[Cloggie]

I agree with Zarathustra's comments, and I should add a little of the research we did before going for the full replica option:

- We looked at split rims and there was 3 big issues:

1 - The Coffin spoke wheel design increases the dishing (angle) of the spokes as the rim gets wider. Theroefore different sized rims would need different center designs anyway to be authentic. By not following the dishing pattern, you would really compormize the look o fthe wheel.

2 - Split rims need bolting together, so the bolts would show unless we used blind heads, but then you'd need specoial rims also, and the cost started going up. We also looked at putting a ring around the outside of the wheel to cover the bolt heads, but that wouldn't work easily either....

3 - The cost of a split rim wheel was not that much different to making exact copies of the originals, therefore most people would probably chose the replica version anyway....

So that was some of our rationale not to go for the split rim option. Hope this clarifies.

Regards, Nico/

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

That's funny, all the three piece wheels I've ever seen are available in pretty much any diameter adn width you want because the sides are interchangeable and easily changed. I understand that the centers chage for different widths but Gerry must already have the center for the 8" width and I'll bet it would work just fine with a 7' or 9" width too. This should require no extra engineering. If memory serves, Image Wheels were producing the Coffin Spoke center for Gerry. Why couldn't he just get the sides from them in a different diameter?

Please don't try to make this about the 'purist' - how many the purist have RHD replicas? This is about you guys making sure that everybody is on board for the 15" wheels because you need to sell 30 sets before they can be made. I really don't mind that - what I mind is being told I'm not a 'team player' (with the implication that I should just shut up) because I'm discussing other options.

I understand that Gerry needs to sell 30 sets of the 15" one piece before he can commit to making them. I've already said that I'd like a set myself. What does it hurt to discuss the possibility that for little or no extra cost, Gerry could provide a 16" wheel to those of us who want to take our cars to the track occasionally? We probably don't care if these wheels are not exact replicas (bolts around the split rim for example), but it would be nice if they at least resembled the wheels that belong on the car.

John B.

[Cloggie]

Hi John,
I apologize if it seems like I or others are trying to push one solution over another. It's not the intention at all. I also apologize if you're feeling pressurized to conform. In reality, we can all bolt whatever wheels we like onto our cars....

What we have tried to do with the other stakeholders in this project is to meet the requirements of the largest population that we can within the technical constraints faced. We are offering an option, and a choice. It's one of many solutions...

Unfortunately, we have no perfect solution to meet everyone's needs, and we are trying to do the best we can. If we sell 30 sets, that's great. If we don't, then our understanding of what the majority of people wanted was incorrect....

There are solutions for people that want 16" wheels (As Guy mentioned Bob Planet is producing 16" Replica Wheels) and you can always get the image split rims that look similar.

I really don't want this thread to become an argument about right and wrong, purist or not. It's all about people's points of view, and sharing them. I apologize if you feel people don't want to hear you, but if we didn't, we would bother to answer!

I don't think I can say more than that....

Cheers, Nico/

[guy mayers]

Hi John, no one is trying to stop us discussing options here, this thread has been going quite a while now! And it's by far the most viewed one on the site and has the most replies.
As far as I know Gerry had nothing to do with the Image Wheels split rim design, I don't even know if they are still available although several club members did but them for their cars. Both Colin Artus and Adrian Jackson fitted them to their cars, both of which strangely are lime green left hand drive group 4 cars and Chris Smith fitted a set to his lime green RHD group 4 car as well!
Trouble is, whilst the fronts are fine the rears don't look quite right.
After a lot of discussion between interested parties the project had to go somewhere and the consensus of opinion was that the most popular choice was an exact copy of the original wheel at an affordable price and that is what Gerry and the Club have decided to go for. That doesn't mean to say that all things are excluded for all time.
There are still discussions about making a 10" wheel and this may yet happen in the future. Furthermore, once the basic tooling has been made the manufacturer may choose to offer their own versions in split rim/larger diameter using the basic centres. This will be in agreement with Gerry who will have the rights to the moulds. But that's just speculation on my part so don't take it as gospel!
So, I would say that at this point market demand is dictating what is going to be produced but all things are possible in the future - but nothing will be possible unless the initial order goes ahead which will create the needed tooling! I hope you will join us and order a set of "parade" wheels for your car!
Guy

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

You know - I think this just all went wrong somehow so...

I'm sorry if I was being grumpy. Some of the initial comments just rubbed me the wrong way. I guess I feel a pretty strong loyalty to Gerry and the club. I felt a bit like that loyalty was being questioned.

Like everyone else, I am really excited about being able to get good replica one piece wheels - especially at the prices given in the other post. While I intend to get a set for around town use, I'd like to have something a bit thinner with better tire options for weekend track use. My understanding regarding the three piece rims was that Gerry was involved with them through some kind of arrangement with the manufacturer (Image Wheels?). I thought that an ideal wheel solution would be to get a second set of the 3 piece wheels with coffin spoke centers and 16" sides. I'm not even sure if this is possible but I thought it was at least worth asking Gerry about.

Rest assured that my first set of replacement wheels will be the one piece though. I certainly appreciate and want to support your & Gerry's efforts there. I'll order them as soon as I finish the suspension upgrades.

So I hope there's no hard feelings. I'm not upset at all - just a bit puzzled by how we digressed like that.

John B.


(cleaned up a sentence with wording that didn't convey what I meant well)

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

Oh - and for what it's worth, I think you should stick to the 8" and 12" widths. Like you said, there are almost no tires that will fit the 10" so there's really no point. Most of the thinner tires (245 and less) will fit the 8" so you could probably run 205 fronts and 245 rears both on 8" rims if you wanted to.

John B.

[Andrew Way]

Before I risk be ostracised can I say that I commend the club (Nico, Guy and anyone else) for the efforts in getting this project of the ground by collaborating with Gerry. I also believe the decision to go for 15” one piece replicas is the correct choice. However I’d like to discus the following comment from the flyer we we’re all sent;

“Those who chose to purchase later will pay at least £200 more for these wheels, and will probably need to wait quite some time until sufficient orders are aggregated again to warrant another production run”

I fully understand the economical reasons to why 30 orders need to be placed to make the project affordable. I also realise that a repeat order would need to be of a large enough quantity to make it affordable and therefore might never happen. What I don’t understand is why there WILL be additional costs to pay. Presumably the first order has the tooling cost amortised into it. The second order will not include this cost. By maintaining the same price per wheel (ignoring inflation) there is then enough room to make increased profit over the first batch (I’m assuming and hoping there is profit in the first batch). I get the feeling this comment was made to encourage people to order now, which is fair enough, but if that was the case would it not have been better to say this is a one of batch.

If I’ve got the wrong end of the stick here I apologise but it is an aspect of the project which I don’t understand.

Andrew.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Andrew Way
I fully understand the economical reasons to why 30 orders need to be placed to make the project affordable. I also realise that a repeat order would need to be of a large enough quantity to make it affordable and therefore might never happen. What I don’t understand is why there WILL be additional costs to pay. Presumably the first order has the tooling cost amortised into it.

Andrew,

You are correct on the general financial basis, that the tooling costs are to be covered in the first (and possibly only) run. The point is that normal commercial pricing would/should come out at a higher unit cost and these are being offered at a discount that still allows for some profit if/when all of the batch are sold. This discount can be offered because the orders are confirmed and stock will (should) not need to be held for any length of time.

The note is indeed trying to drum up the initial orders, as without them the manufacture will not be started. If there is a later run, then it is expected that sales would be even slower and with the minimum order size for manufacture taken into consideration, that is a large amount of capital tied-up that should be available to a business as normal cashflow. So, later runs are far from certain, but costs will be higher for any later batch due to the higher level of risk and the time it may take to sell further wheels.

A further thought is that the wheels are offered with a choice of pcd sizes for fitment to original cars or to replicas with Alfa hub patterns. The initial batch of wheels to be made will have the pcd sizes as specified on the orders that are received. Any later batch may have to be ordered with a certain number with Lancia/Ferrari pcd and others with Alfa pcd. That imposes greater risks on those wheels being sold - it would be no good having a remaining stock of wheels with Alfa pcd if potential customers want the Ferrari fitting.

There is also a considerable sum of money to be put up for tooling and manufacturing costs. If alternative sizes are to be made, this will require yet more capital investment into tooling (in the thousands of pounds range) and minimum order quantities make this a high risk venture if undertaken on a prospective basis alone - hence the confirmed order route to ensure that manufacture can progress and wheels will be made and delivered.



Other comments relating to 'loyalty' and the like are all fair enough. We all have a lot of loyalty to the cars and to the suppliers and manufacturers of real and replica parts, as well as to the club as a whole. That is not being questioned when the issues of costs and alternatives for manufacturer/tyre sizing/etc are being raised.

So don't worry about asking such questions as they are all perfectly valid and are not seen as an attack on the club, individuals or companies concerned (unless it is posted as such, free speech and all that). I'm certainly as grumpy as anyone else when sometimes responding to a message which I feel is not correct to my way of thinking, but expect anyone else to have the same right without questioning their integrity, loyalty or other characterisations.

All the best,

[tryphon]

I have to agree that 15" is/should be the size to go for. I still have some worries about finding tires but 15" should be doable...

I have just mailed Hawk cars asking for details on how to order/pre-order a set. Waiting for their reply.

Cheers,
Tryphon

[Andrew Way]

if/when all of the batch are sold.

I was under the impression the casting order will be placed when 30 members place orders (pay). Would this not also be the case if a second batch was run? I think most people would appreciate this is a very limited demand wheel and would understand that they could only have a set when enough people place an order.

The cost to machine these wheels is a minor part of the total cost; particularly if the whole batch is machined together (we're talking about 120 wheels here, with only two stud patterns).

I can fully appreciate the cost of tooling this job as I've designed and procured a few castings in my time. Having said that if its more than 10% of the total cost for the first order (for the two patterns) I'd be surprised. Don’t forget we’ve got members with the skills to detail the design requirements, although looking at the flyer sent out this has already been done (is the sat/iges file available;))

Cheers,

Andrew.

[guy mayers]

Hi Andrew, thanks for the points raised and thanks for your support. I will just reiterate here what John has said and also point to the other thread Nico started regarding the status of the project.
Whilst not being privy to Gerrys finances I am aware that the prices being accepted for the first batch are very close to the actual cost, leaving little room for any unexpected errors in producing these wheels. Ultimately the final decision as to whether production actually happens will rest with Gerry but this is entirely dependant on the minimum batch number being acheived. Again, Gerry will decide what that number is and how many sets he is willing to stock. That obviously has cash flow implications for him and this has to be covered by a profit element. We are trying to encourage as many as possible to join the consortium so that the project can proceed sooner rather than later, if at all.
Say we only get 20 sets ordered through the club - that means Gerry is going to have to decide if he can afford to stock 10 sets and at what PCD and width mix. So, say he does stock them, how long will it take to shift them? Who knows - I certainly don't, and, once that stock has gone he is not likely to order again until another batch of 30 sets can be accumulated. Do you really think it likely that that many will be needed again? I'm not sure either!

So, I think that anyone contemplating ordering a set needs to do it now before the boat is missed.

Guy

[Zarathustra]

Please send a wheel anouncement to all the Lancia Clubs out there. There aren't many Stratos in the American club but it's worth an email: www.americanlanciaclub.org

I'd like to start a new thread responding to John B's discontent with purism. This questions the whole notion of replicas and is part of the SEC's ontology.

[guy mayers]

Thanks for the lead Z! Part of the strategy for the marketing of these wheels is the targeting of owners through Lancia Clubs worldwide. I suspect that most owners who are computer literate have already found this superb website and will be aware of what is happening. I sincerely hope that a few, like yourself, will take advantage of this opportunity and order a set of wheels. The word will spread but the faster the better!

I honestly beleive that this first project, if a success, can be a catalyst for further collaboration between owners of original and replica cars to generate demand for further items. How many cars are there out there are awaiting a few parts to restore them to their former glory? We already know that a significant number of original cars are back on the road due to the availability, from Gerry at Hawk Cars, of replacement body panels and winscreens but what else could be done for the benefit of all owners around the world? I know I for one would like to replace my perspex side windows and that there are people trying to source the front indicators - the Fiat Dino Coupe ones, or oil temp gauges and ammeters! The list goes on and on and it must be as hard to restore an original properly as it is to build an accurate replica!

Purism? Well, I don't expect that from everyone really. Some owners are using their cars, real or replica, in competition and if tyre technology has moved on since the heyday of the 1970's who can blame them for wanting to take advantage? Not me! And the use of any Stratos for what it was designed for can only be a good thing!

The reality of the current situation is that the demand for replica wheels to the original specifications (or better) exceeds that for any other type, whether for the original Stratos or replica. And market demands will be satisfied first - if this leads to further developments, 10" widths or 16" diameter split rim wheels at a later date so much the better BUT we have to start somewhere and the accurate reproduction of the original wheels at a reasonable price must be it! Nothing else will happen unless this project is successful.

There has to be room in the Club and on the website for everyone to express their opinions - free speech I guess! I am the last person who wants to see someones' views suppressed as this can lead to disillusionment with the club, website or car! The free expression of opinions must continue, even if we don't always agree on matters, indeed the resolution of disagreements often results in stronger ties and better decisions in my experience.

So, enough for one evening, please everyone, keep an eye on the thread regarding the status of the project, and, if you are interested in a set of wheels, check it out and consider joining the consortium sooner rather than later - you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.


Guy

[Randle Roberts]

I have a Stratos with 8" and 12" Campys and the tire situation is not good. I talked to Thomas Popper sometime back and he mentioned Michelin was considering remaking the X racing tires. These are semi-slicks with golfball type dimples and may be seen on Stratos racers. They are low-profile compared to Pirelli P7's and look great. I think if enough demand was shown (real and replica owners) Michelin might make them again. They already do the 205/70/VR14 for the Dino 246. I could make some inquiries if there is any interest. One good thing about Michelins is they don't seem to get hard as they age like Pirellis do. Mine still seem fine and they are at least 20 years old. I still have the original Michelins on my Stratos road car and see no signs of cracks on the sidewalls.

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

It might also be worth getting the Lamborghini and De Tomaso guys to bug them. I believe the early Countachs and Panteras also used 15" wheels in similar widths. Michelin could make a lot of people very happy by producing these sizes again.

John B.

[Cloggie]

Great to still see lots of healthy debate!

As I said before, the SEC will continually look for ways to bring value to it's membership through collaboration.

It looks very positive for the wheel project at the moment, and it would make sense for our next collaboration to be a similar type of tyre purchase however, I don't want to effect the SEC official's focus right now until we've got the wheel project completed.

Tyres will probably be something we'll tackle early in 2004. As you can imagine, there's a lot more variance in requirements, so it will be even tougher to please everyone.....

Thanks again for all your ideas and comments.

Regards, Nico/

[Chris J]

Both Colin Artus and Adrian Jackson fitted them to their cars, both of which strangely are lime green left hand drive group 4 cars and Chris Smith fitted a set to his lime green RHD group 4 car as well!

Just going back to the split rims that Guy and JohnB were talking about.

I thought the wheels on, was it Adrian Jackson's car were NOT the Image type, but were a short custom made batch of centres?

I might be wrong.

[Cloggie]

Hi Chris, do you have a photo pf the rear wheel too? I think that's were we'd have the problem with the split rims, as well as the bolts showing.....

[colin artus]

I have put a pic of a rear wheel in the photo gallery. Its not an Image wheel but one of a small batch I had made a few years ago. I used a two part pattern. I covered the details in an earlier thread.

Colin

[guy mayers]

And now you know why we are going to so much trouble to produce accurate one piece copies of the original!
Guy

[guy mayers]

Just thought I'd bring this one back to the top - anyone else noticed how the two most popular threads on the site relate to the wheels and how similar the number of views are?
2520 each right now! Spooky!
Guy:D

[abstamaria]

I would be interested in the 15" competition wheels to fit an original Stratos. I bought a set in the late 80s from Tecnomagnesio but one has started to bubble (magnesium). Still have P7s on these. A 16" set in the same pattern would be interesting. Is Marchessini still selling wheels?

[Cloggie]

Abstamaria,
If you're interested in buying wheels, please contact Gerry Hawkrigde at Hawk Cars as he has now started the tooling manufacture, and should have finished wheels within a few weeks.

The wheels are available in 15" only, 8" or 12" rim width with 108mm PCD.

You can reach him by Email at gerry@hawkcars.co.uk

or by telephone on +44 1892 750341

If you'd like to discuss the specification of the wheels, and what's been done to create them, please feel free to contact myself, Nico Alonzi (secretary@stratclub.com) or Guy Mayers (treasurer@stratclub.com) and we'll do our best to help.

By the way, have you thought about joining the Stratos Enthusiasts Club? Please send me your Email and I'll forward you information about our activities and events. We have many Global members, and we publish a regular Newsletter that our overseas members find interesting.

Check us out at www.stratclub.com

Looking forward to hearing from you soon.

Regards, Nico/

[abstamaria]

Thanks, Nico. I have to apologize for my ignorance, but will the wheels fit an original Stratos (stradale). I have never had to scheck the pdf.

[Cloggie]

Hi,
no need to apologize. I only found out recently about PCD's and what they are....

Yes, the wheels will fit the original wheel hubs (PCD and Centre ring) on a Group 4 or stradale model. Several people who are ordering wheels are Stradale owners fitting 4 x 8" wheels.

Hope this helps. Regards, Nico/

[stewart]

Andres,

Just a quick question not really related to this thread though!

Would your car happen to be a red stradale? If so, would I be right in saying that you knew Joe Gruppe? I have pictures of a red car located in the Phillipines that Joe took photo's of for me a number of years ago when I was in the early stages of my build.

Just thought I'd ask.

cheers,