electrics

[pimms]

Hi all,

Finally connected all the wiring, but of course it does not work all taht well.
Checked everithing but seems to be the right colourds connected. IO still have a few problems:
* when switching on the battery switch the right front indicator comes on ( continuisly ) immediately, if i then switch on the side lights the indicator is off.
Whem the left indicators is switched on all is well when the right indicator is on my left heasdlight starts indicating.
Is this a typical earthing problem? Which positions has the column stalk for the light from top to bottom. top dimmed and bottom main lights is what i thought??
* also without ignition on my charging light is on, i can start the engine :) but it does not stop when the igniton key is turned off :( It does not stop when the battery switch is turned of , it only stops when i take the earth off the battery.

Any help please for i am not to good at this :o

[chris.richard]

* also without ignition on my charging light is on, i can start the engine :) but it does not stop when the igniton key is turned off :( It does not stop when the battery switch is turned of , it only stops when i take the earth off the battery.


You have a direct "live" feed from the battery side of the battery switch to the ignition circuit. Is the switch one with the condenser? I would check that the terminals on that switch are correct.

[chris.richard]

* when switching on the battery switch the right front indicator comes on ( continuisly ) immediately, if i then switch on the side lights the indicator is off.
Whem the left indicators is switched on all is well when the right indicator is on my left heasdlight starts indicating.


:confused: Wow! you couldn't have done that if you'd tried! :rolleyes:
I think you need 2 people, a resistance meter and disconnect each wire individually to see what they're connected to. The right indicator is teh common part - start with it's wiring.
My cerebrum is confundit! :D

[CorseChris]

I'd love to be able to make some really useful suggestions, but this sounds like it needs the treatment Chris has suggested - one wire at a time. It sounds as if there are at least 3 different problems to me, but it's hard to be sure.

Try disconnecting the light & indicator switch first and see what it does. If you still have problems, then investigate the loom itself and how the lights are connected and earthed.

Permanent ignition feed is the first thing to sort though. Again, one step at a time, starting with the battery isolator switch.

Sorry that's likely not very helpful.

[jadefarms]

If you are using the Hawk wiring loom the indicator wiring is a bit confusing as you seem to have too many wires going forward. The lack of wiring diagram does not help either as you are just working from colour codes, which have to be matched up to your donor.
The indicator wires have to be doubled up, where they attach to the front indicators, to return to the rear wiring loom. If you get one of these wires cross-wired it could give the symptoms you describe. But as the others have said, it is a case of testing everything out, piece by piece...
Struan
:)

[strat6v]

I think you have the wiring crossed where it connects to the stalks. Just to confuse matters, there are many sets of stalks that look the same but have different amounts of cables and colour codes. My advice would be not to put heavier current loads through the stalks, just use those feeds out to switch relays. I gave up with the usual column stalks and decided to use thema items, along with the thema wiper motor.

There is a revised wiring diagram drawn up by an SEC member that shows things more clearly but only suits the older looms and colour codes.

[pimms]

Thank you guys for your input, the big search is on this weekend, could in the garage though below freezing!

[chris.richard]

minus 4 in my garage yesterday. Turned round and back to the house. :(

[pimms]

Did some searching today, with the heater at max. Solved a few problems :rolleyes:

First was a stupid mistake of myself :o :o
I managed to get all the wires in one of the front harness connectors all wrong. Indicators work fine now :)

Also put in my spare ignition switch which soved the sytarting stopping problem of the engine. Charging light works also fine.

Last hurddle are the lights; when turning on the main battery switch the main light come on directly, they stay on with the side light switch on in first and second position.
The column switch works ok but main lights are on the top position and dipped beam is in the lower position of the column switch, is that the wrong way round :confused:

Shouldn't the side light switch turn on the side lights at the first position and the dipped lights at the second position? After that you can change beam with the column switch, yes?

[pimms]

Last hurddle are the lights; when turning on the main battery switch the main light come on directly, they stay on with the side light switch on in first and second position.

Problem was in the fuse box. I use the x 1/9 fuse box for my Gr4 dash , so i switched all the wiring from the Hawk fuse box to the x 1/9 box. Just put them nicely in a row next to each other but did not notice that some of the fuses are connected in the fuse box ( see pic ). Thats why no 3 fuse gave power to the no 4 fuse and the light switch got continuos power. A simple change of fuse position did the trick. Everything works fine now, just in time for the new year :) :)

[Matt No VAT]

Well done Pimm, another step closer !

A great way to end the year. :D

[Chris J]

'Just got my new dashboard back together and tested the electrics:

Charge light on even thought the ignition isn't
Charge light brighter when the ignition is on
Push on push off hazard switch lights up without flashing
All indicators light up together without flashing (can't remember how?)
Indicator stalk does nothing...except it does work the wipers and park!
Wiper stalk also works the wipers, park and washers

Everything else is fine, oh, apart from the demist fan switch, which doesn't do anything.

I'm going to start by bypassing the indicator stalks, there is a feed going in, I know that much so far.

[madham]

Can't wait to start on my electics sounds like you people are having a good laugh !

[ginger]

Can't wait to start on my electics sounds like you people are having a good laugh !

Hahaha psycho
car electrics is a noghtmare :-)

[Chris J]

'Just got my new dashboard back together and tested the electrics:

Charge light on even thought the ignition isn't
Charge light brighter when the ignition is on
Push on push off hazard switch lights up without flashing
All indicators light up together without flashing (can't remember how?)
Indicator stalk does nothing...except it does work the wipers and park!
Wiper stalk also works the wipers, park and washers


Well, I had the green/red (flasher N/S) connected to the red/green (wipers) and vice versa. That sorted a few problems out!

Indicators still don't work though. I'm not sure the right wires are on the right terminals of my Hella hazard switch. Similar to this type:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/img/hella-hazzard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/hella-hazzard.html&h=454&w=442&sz=19&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=qi-THpVt8NNdjM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhazard%2Bhella%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DG

[madham]

Hahaha psycho
car electrics is a noghtmare :-)

Reckon I'll be starting mine about December time, so it will be "The noghtmare before christmas" :-):D:D:D

[Chris J]

Indicators still don't work though. I'm not sure the right wires are on the right terminals of my Hella hazard switch. Similar to this type:
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/img/hella-hazzard.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/prod/hella-hazzard.html&h=454&w=442&sz=19&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=qi-THpVt8NNdjM:&tbnh=128&tbnw=125&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhazard%2Bhella%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26s a%3DG

'Just realised what those numbers on switches and relays refer to:

Bosch terminal numbers (30 87 85 86 49a 15 etc.)
That'll narrow it down, I hope.

[Chris J]

'Just realised what those numbers on switches and relays refer to:

Bosch terminal numbers (30 87 85 86 49a 15 etc.)
That'll narrow it down, I hope.

These:

http://www.type2.com/library/identifi/bosterm.htm

[John]

Wow, Chris! That list is just brilliant. Never seen that info written down before.
There is a good explanation of how Hazard switches are wired in the "Haynes Auto Electrical Handbook".

[Chris J]

Wow, Chris! That list is just brilliant. Never seen that info written down before.
There is a good explanation of how Hazard switches are wired in the "Haynes Auto Electrical Handbook".

Thanks John, that Haynes book sounds like a good buy? (for the likes of me anyhow!) I do struggle to keep the smoke in.

[Chris J]

Right, I've sorted the Hella hazard switch and indicators now.

This hazard switch related thread helped:
http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1935&highlight=hazard+switch

Bosch terminal No. and Bosch description - Hawk loom colour

30 (input from battery terminal) - Purple
15 (switched and downstream of battery) - Dark Green
49a (output) - Light Green/Brown
49 (input) - Dark Green/Pink
R (right side?) - Green/White
L (left side?) - Green/Red
31 (return to battery) - Black

As on Mick's thread:

Ignition power for indicator function
Battery power for hazard function
Power out to flasher
Power in from flasher
O/S circuit
N/S circuit
Earth

Everything's fine now except that the dash light for the indicator flashes for only the first click of the indicator unit.
When the hazard is on the dash light flashes for every click???

Hazard and indicators use the same flasher unit, and all exterior indicator lamps are working as they should in both indicator and hazard modes. It's just the dash lamps that aren't working as they should.

[Chris J]

'Can't get my head round this.

Why does my turn signal dash lamp light up for only the first click when the indicators are on, but all the time with the hazards?

[Bernard]

CJ

Sounds like you have some smoke and flames stored in the wire's !!..... take those 6" nails out of the fuse box and fit proper one's !

B...... alway's there to help and advise !!

[Chris J]

CJ

take those 6" nails out of the fuse box and fit proper one's !


But they were the very best 6" nails I could find??

[Sando]

.....Ah yes but they are probably zinc plated so the impedance is all wrong ;)

[guy mayers]

Did you ever hear about the guy in the States who won a Darwin award for using a rifle cartridge to replace a headlight fuse that blew one night? He lived which is unusual for the recipient of an award but the rules merely say that you have to stop yourself passing on your genes :eek::eek::eek:

I'd recommend galvanised nails. Less likely to rust.:p

[CorseChris]

'Can't get my head round this.

Why does my turn signal dash lamp light up for only the first click when the indicators are on, but all the time with the hazards?

Is the 'relay' a bi-metallic type or electronic? If the former, it's likely due to insufficient current being drawn in 'indicator' mode after the initial warm-up. First cycle makes the carriage move all the way over, allowing the indicator circuit to make, after that, it never quite manages a full cycle as it's a pretty mechanical and iffy process. Try adding an extra lamp temporarily (or changing the side repeater bulb for a higher wattage) and see if that helps. You might be able to open up the 'relay' and tweak the warning lamp contact to 'make' a wee bit earlier.

Possibly!! This is very speculative as they vary a lot in how they work......

[Chris J]

Is the 'relay' a bi-metallic type or electronic? If the former, it's likely due to insufficient current being drawn in 'indicator' mode after the initial warm-up. First cycle makes the carriage move all the way over, allowing the indicator circuit to make, after that, it never quite manages a full cycle as it's a pretty mechanical and iffy process. Try adding an extra lamp temporarily (or changing the side repeater bulb for a higher wattage) and see if that helps. You might be able to open up the 'relay' and tweak the warning lamp contact to 'make' a wee bit earlier.

Possibly!! This is very speculative as they vary a lot in how they work......

Now that's the sort of advice I was hoping for...Mr. Bernard....with your nail and smoke jokes!..:p

Many thanks Chris.
The front indicators aren't fitted at the moment, just the side repeaters and rears, so maybe that's what's upsetting the flasher?

[Bernard]

CJ......... you ungrateful young bu**er !

CS is far more clevererer than i am...... me and my son are from the old skool....

if it aint broke don't fix it......... if it is broke hit it with the largest 'ammer you can find !!

then stand back and watch the smoke !

Lots 'a Luv

Bern

[pimms]

'Can't get my head round this.

Why does my turn signal dash lamp light up for only the first click when the indicators are on, but all the time with the hazards?

I have exactly the same problem, did you manage to fix ir Chris?

[Chris J]

me and my son are from the old skool....


Don't bring your son into this..., have you seen the smokeless quality of his wiring??

[Chris J]

[QUOTE=CorseChris;37562]Is the 'relay' a bi-metallic type or electronic? If the former, it's likely due to insufficient current being drawn in 'indicator' mode after the initial warm-up.QUOTE]

One brilliant diagnosis Chris! That's exactly what it was.
Fitting the two main front indicators fixed the problem, so they must draw enough current to make the difference?

Is the integral bulb in the hazard switch enough to make a difference too, or is it just that with the hazard on there were enough lamps (two side repeaters/two rear indicators) drawing current? (even though the fronts were'nt fitted)

Pim, see above. Make sure all your indicators are fitted, lit up and earthed properly.

[pimms]

[QUOTE=Chris J;
Pim, see above. Make sure all your indicators are fitted, lit up and earthed properly.[/QUOTE]

Well then my problem should resolve itself when i refit the rear of the car :rolleyes:

[CorseChris]

Chris,

It would have been that with Hazards on, you had enough total load to make it behave. In that mode, you had 2 main and 2 small lamps - this is effectively normal 'indicate' loads.

They are delicate things at times. Very dependant on having the right loads to work correctly. Electronic ones are far less fussy usually.

[mudhut]

What Chris S said.

Tried "adjusting" my thermal type and completely ruined it. The electronic type with a relay is less touchy and makes a louder click - something that I felt was important in a Stratos with the high cabin noise level - so that's what I used.

I looked up the data sheet for the chip that acts as the controller. Was surprised to find that it was a purpose-designed item. One of its characteristics was that it was load-sensing and designed to flash at twice the normal spped if a lamp failed. You would still hear the click though, unlike the thermal type.