Hawk Conversion To Alfa V6 From 4 Pot

[chris.richard]

Can anyone provide a list of the things to do when making the conversion? I know that Hawk supply a conversion kit of engine mounts etc., but from the forum I see references to other things like petrol tanks and moving chassis rails, so a complete rundown would be very useful.

Many thanks,
Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris,

Since I'm familiar with the car you're considering, and looked into this conversion myself, I can try to provide a little more info. Still, I'm no expert, so if I overlook something, somebody please feel free to correct me.

To convert from Beta to Alfa, there are a few things you'll need to get from Hawk Cars. I think most of these are included in the retrofit kit, but some might be separate items. They include:

Engine mounts
Half-shaft adapters
Shift linkage
Exhaust system.

I think everything but the exhaust system is included in the kit, but you should contact Hawk cars to be sure. Gerry Hawkridge usually recommends upgrading to the Leda rear struts if you fit a V-6, but this is not absolutely required, and Chris Pollard's car may already be equipped with the Leda's. Again, I don't have my notes anymore, and it's not readily apparent in the photos. Chris should be able to tell you which setup he has.

The frame, fuel tank, and wiring loom may require modification.

The reason that the frame will have to be changed is that the Alfa engine's water inlet housing tries to occupy the same space as a diagonal brace on the right hand side of the frame. The brace runs downward from just forward of the rear strut to the lower frame rail. Cars built specifically as HF3000's don't have this problem, but HF2000's do, since they were engineered for the Beta engine from the outset. This, and installation of the revised engine mountings in Gerry's kit, will require the services of a welder to complete.

The right hand fuel tank needs to have a potion cut away, either because of moving the diagonal brace, or because of clearance to the engine, I can't recall which. Again, tanks made specifically for an HF3000 have this done at the factory, but HF2000 tanks do not. You may luck out in this regard, since Chris' car was only fitted with a left hand tank. Unless he installed one last year, you can order a right hand tank for an HF3000 from the factory, and it will bolt right in. Expensive, but no welding required.

The wiring loom will of course require some modification, since you're swapping engines and changing the engine management system. I don't think this requires a new loom, just a little splicing. I'm sure there's somebody who can provide you with details on that.

I think that covers the minimum required to swap Alfa for Beta. If I've overlooked anything, or more detail is needed, I'm sure somebody else here knows better than I do.

Cheers

[Stratos]

One small point, and it probably relates to any kit, is that with the 4 cylinder engine you aare probably running on carbs, and therefore probably don't have a fuel return back to the petrol tank.

With a fuel injected engine like the V6, there must be a fuel return back into the petrol tank.

[roger001]

If you have an old hawk/transformer exhaust, dont bin it it can be recycled!! (and sounds good too)

[roger001]

I'll try again

[Matt No VAT]

Hi Chris,

I have just done this conversion and I can assure you theres a lot to it !!

ECU wiring is quite complicated, OS fuel cell needs to be cut down, fair amount of welding - I had the new engine mount brackets in Hawks kit box welded for extra strength.

You'll need some different cables (I've not got to this bit yet)

E-mail me for any specifics as the list of things that need to be done it too long for me to remember off the top of my head!!
(I'm getting old I think)

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Matt No VAT
ECU wiring is quite complicated

Matt,

Why did you think that this was complicated?

If I remember correctly from when I converted my car, there were only 3 feeds to the whole engine loom.

Did you slit the wires to the ECU and shorten them to make it a more tidy installation? Is that what you thought was complicated?

(Matt, not trying to criticise, just trying to find out where your complications came from.)

[Matt No VAT]

My complications came from the fact that the car was already stripped out when I bought it and none of the wires leading to the dash had been labelled.

This was hard work tracking everything back as remember I have no build manual either so I have to learn everything the hard way!!

There are additional sensors on the V6 that aren't on a Beta TwinCam. I managed to get hold of a copy of the Alfa Romeo V6 Electrical system manual and worked out the wiring from that.

BTW - did I tell you that I hate working with electrics?

[Stratos]

Matt,

Understood.

Wouldn't like it if mine had been similar. I was lucky in that I removed everything, and I kept the Alfa engine loom as a complete unit.


Originally posted by Matt No VAT
BTW - did I tell you that I hate working with electrics?

Me too - especially on my Allora.

Apart from the wires that have been added since I bought the car, EVERY wire on my car is RED - it's fun trying to trace things!!!:confused:

[Jeff Davison]

This would be the "black box" that would be very useful in using the Fiat tachometer meant for 4 cylinders when doing the Alfa V6.


http://www.dakotadigital.com/Detail.cfm?Category=122&PartNumber=SGI-8



Jeff Davison

[rutthenut]

From the original list, you have to add recalibration of the rev counter, but that's now been noted.

Depending on your HF2000 spec, you may need to change to hydraulic clutch actuation, if that wasn't already in place for the four-pot unit. Or you may try to work out a cable solution.

Chassis mods aren't necessary if fitting a 24-valve engine into the HF2000 chassis (Jerry Bailey found this out).

It would [presumably] be possible to change the water pipes from the 12v to the 24v setup if you wanted to avoid the chassis and fuel tank mods, but I don't know of anyone who has done that.

If you use a 2.5 litre V6 from an Alfa 155, that has the 'better' water pipe positioning but also has a cable shift for the gear linkage, which is not something that Hawk Cars have worked with.

Actual water pipes are an obvious area that will need to be changed in the engine bay as part of upgrading to the V6, possibly with a different header tank.

A different fuel pump will be needed for the injection system, if going from a carb-fed engine. Maybe also needing different pipework into and out of the tank(s).

The throttle cable will also want to be changed to suit the new engine, but that comes under the same sort of thing as sorting out new wiring connectors and the like for different sensor positions on the engine. These are smaller details that you would have to expect in making any sort of engine change, I guess.


Another thought, once you've got a V6 in there, you will probably want to upgrade the braking system!

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
This would be the "black box" that would be very useful in using the Fiat tachometer meant for 4 cylinders when doing the Alfa V6.

http://www.dakotadigital.com/Detail.cfm?Category=122&PartNumber=SGI-8

But at eighty dollars, surely it's cheaper to just have the tacho recalibrated and do away with the gadget?