What is this part??

[924_CarreraGTS]

Hi. I am building a scale model of a Lancia Stratos rally car (the 1978 Pirelli-sponsored vehicle). I am doing a full-engine build and have been trying to collect reference material to aid me. Although I have found a great deal of the information that I need, one picture leaves me puzzled. Unfortunately I cannot post pictures here and the picture is not online.

The part is a unit mounted near the front of the engine compartment, very low on the chassis and toward the left side. It looks like a pump, with a triangular cover plate visible on the rear, and has at least 3 small-diameter hoses attached to it. It is clearly not a part of the engine as the engine has been removed in the picture. I would think it to be oil-related, but I don't really know. I would very much appreciate help.

Note: This part is definitely on the LEFT side, and I am pretty sure the water to oil cooler assembly is on the RIGHT side, (as well as having a different shape), so I don't think they are the same part.

[tryphon]

Fuel filter:

[924_CarreraGTS]

Thank you, but I don't think that is the part (although I would like to know where that fuel filter is located exactly so that I can add it as well)

I managed to attach a picture file with the part in question circled in green. Perhaps this will help.

Thank you!

Alex

[tryphon]

That my friend is one of the 2 BCD fuel pumps. This is a picture of my car...
The fuel pumps in Group 4 cars used various locations. Some were mounted in the original locations as you can see in the picture (the 2nd one being a little to the left and vertical.
Others used to mount them on a plate a bit higher up and both parallel to each other.
If you're building a model of a specific group 4 car (my guess is you're building a model of chassis 1918 Pirelli livered run by Alen in the 1978 San Remo) then you should try to reproduce it precisely. The car uses a cross inlet manifold as you'll see below in the picture of 1918 engine bay from Reinhart Klein. You can also see the Fispa fuel filter on the left upper corner.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Thank you so much for your assistance!! That is indeed the car I am building. On chassis 1918, is the fuel pump of the type shown in the picture I posted?

I will probably have several more questions about fuel, oil, coolant, and electrical systems as I progress through this build, and I know where to go for help. Thanks again!

Alex

[924_CarreraGTS]

So, the hose closest to the bulkhead (on the fuel filter) loops over to the fuel distribution pipe, connecting on the driver's side, and the hose closest to the engine goes down to one of the two fuel pumps? Would it be possible for me to get a better image of the fuel pumps and their relative locations?

Thanks!

Alex

[chris.richard]

What scale Alex?

[mudhut]

What scale Alex?

With this level of attention to detail, I'm hoping it's 1:1. :)

[tryphon]

So, the hose closest to the bulkhead (on the fuel filter) loops over to the fuel distribution pipe, connecting on the driver's side, and the hose closest to the engine goes down to one of the two fuel pumps? Would it be possible for me to get a better image of the fuel pumps and their relative locations?

Thanks!

Alex

Both pumps feed the filter on which one exit is blanked while the other feeds the engine.
If you're into detail then you should add 2 non-return valves (they appear as small metallic cylinders as in the picture below) on each tube between pumps and filter.

[924_CarreraGTS]

What scale Alex?

It's 1:24, but I pride myself in adding every conceivable detail, most certainly including all fuel, oil, and water lines.

Both pumps feed the filter on which one exit is blanked while the other feeds the engine.
If you're into detail then you should add 2 non-return valves (they appear as small metallic cylinders as in the picture below) on each tube between pumps and filter.

OK...so, there is one pump for each tank, then? And both feed into the filter, so there are three hoses attached to the filter?

I have some more questions, but I'll get this out of the way first.

Thanks for all the help so far!!

Alex

[tryphon]

OK...so, there is one pump for each tank, then? And both feed into the filter, so there are three hoses attached to the filter?

I have some more questions, but I'll get this out of the way first.

Thanks for all the help so far!!

Alex

Yes, three hoses are attached to the filter.

No, both pumps are fed by both tanks. Pumps work one at a time selectable from the cabin, even on Stradale cars.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Yes, three hoses are attached to the filter.

No, both pumps are fed by both tanks. Pumps work one at a time selectable from the cabin, even on Stradale cars.

Which explains the three hoses attached to the pump visible in my pic. So each pump has three hoses. Are the pumps connected to each other, or merely independent? Is this so that the car can still be raced even with a pump failure?

[tryphon]

Yes the two pumps are there as a backup of each other.
A picture speaks more than a thousand words.
Here's the Stradale layout, similar but not identical, to a Group 4 layout:

[924_CarreraGTS]

Thanks! That helps a bunch! Now that I understand the fuel system I can move on to the other things. For other questions, do you think I should start a new thread?

Alex

[tryphon]

Your call regarding the thread, just a warning: If you're building, as you say, a Group 4 model then don't look at Stradale pictures or you may be building it wrong.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Your call regarding the thread, just a warning: If you're building, as you say, a Group 4 model then don't look at Stradale pictures or you may be building it wrong.

Yes, I understand. I have a mix of both in my reference material, and several of my questions are related to the differences between them.

I may as well continue in this thread, since I have explained my situation.

In the picture you provided of chassis 1918, it appears that the oil collector tank is a squarish unit mounted between the engine and the bulkhead? As opposed to the round can on the left side in the Stradale cars?

Alex

[tryphon]

Yes the oil catch tank in Group 4 cars is located in the center of the bulkhead and is made in fiberglass as opposed to the iron Stradale part which is identical to the Dino 206/246.
It has:
- 2 in-going tubes on its left part connected to the oil filler cap bases one on each cylinder head
- 1 out-going tube in the middle which, through along rubber tube is venting to the atmosphere
- 1 out going tube at the right bottom returning oil to the engine

[924_CarreraGTS]

That is VERY helpful! So, the lower line that returns to the engine: Is it the one visible in the picture below?

[tryphon]

Yes.
Again here you need to be careful. Group 4 gearbox/engine sump assembly looks like this:

[924_CarreraGTS]

This picture reminds me: what is the linkage connection toward the center of the crankcase? Is that shift linkage? (I know the clutch linkage is on the flywheel housing)

Also, there are two oil hoses connected to the oil filter adaptor housing. Are these for an oil cooler?

Your help so far has been incredible. Thank you!

Alex

[tryphon]

What you see in the picture is the Gr.4 shifter gate. Missing is the finger that meshes with the gate. This is similar to the Ferrari shifter grill only connected to the gearbox instead of the gear lever.

The Stratos uses a water to oil heat exchanger. The hoses you see connect to that device while water hoses are connected as per below:

[924_CarreraGTS]

All right; I only see one coolant hose in that picture. Are there supposed to be two (inlet/outlet?) Is that one that I can see, on the top, the one I have circled in green in the below picture?

Also in the picture, what is the device I have circled in blue? A T-off of the fuel equalizer pipe?

Finally, it appears that the Gr. 4 Stratos utilizes a coolant reservoir located at the right front of the engine bay, as opposed to the back center as with the Stradale. How many hoses are attached to this tank? I can see one which drains to the ground? and one which attaches to the upper radiator hose/cooler hose fitting area.

Thanks!

Alex

[tryphon]

Again a picture of my car. I still need to fit the ignition coils to the mounting bracket you see in the back at the opposite side of the battery.
In blue is the fuel tanks breather tubing. Some Gr.4 car have it some not. One way valve breathing to the atmosphere on top.
Green is the connection to the coolant expansion tank which has 3 tubes connected.
You are right on the first the others connect as you see in the picture and back to the coolant circuit at the bottom.

[924_CarreraGTS]

Does the heat exhanger connect to the reservoir at all?

What is the purpose for the two ignition coils? Isn't only one used at a time?

Also, what is the red box above the fuel filter on the picture you provided of 1918?

Thanks!

Alex

[tryphon]

No it doesn't, it's connected to the water circuit on both ends and to the oil circuit from below.

2 ignition coils, 1 live, 1 connected but no spark as spare.

Don't think it's part of the car maybe they're bleeding the clutch.
Edit: On closer look it's the ignition box same as my car, weird they put it there on the opposite side of the distributor. On these late cars many things where tested such as position sensors (Hall effect) on the flywheel. This must be the reason it's there.

[924_CarreraGTS]

You have been extremely helpful. At the moment I don't have any more pressing questions on my mind, but I'm sure more will come up once I'm on my break and can work on this kit. When that happens, I know exactly where I can go for help.

Thank you so much for sharing your information and photos of your beautiful car!

Alex