True cost V6 conversion?

[Chris J]

There's more cost involved in fitting an Alfa V6 engine and gearbox unit to a Stratos replica than just buying an engine or full donor car.

I thought I'd start a thread to list all the things you'd need to buy to complete a V6 conversion. Then anyone contemplating this will know what they will be up against financially, and anyone who has already done this will be reminded how much they've spent!

By the way, I wouldn't know half of this without John Hinchliffe's wisdom, but here goes for the start of the list:


A ready to fit (and hopefully forget) 3.0 24v engine and gearbox - I'm reckoning on at least £1,750 to be realistic?

Ecu - Emerald k3 around £700 inc part assembled loom.

Omex 710 around £1,000 inc part assembled loom. ok for coil on plugs.
£100 to complete the loom properly.

Exhaust? - not much less than a £1,000 at best?

There, that's £4,550 already, and this isn't finished!

If it's a Hawk, I suppose there would be Gerry's conversion kit price to include, as most Hawk owner's would go that way. I don't know how much the kit is (inc. vat) these days?

Anything else?

[Patriq Backlund]

Drive shafts ? Flanges ? Gear selector rods/levers ? Speedo sensor ? Rev sensor ?

[rutthenut]

Could be 12v or 24v engine - can use the factory ECU too in each case, so saving that extra cost.

Modified fuel tank and chassis bar needed on a Hawk too. May need different fuel pump, depending what you were already running.

Beta speedo cable can still be used on the Alfa gearbox.

Tacho modification, or replacement, required for 6-cylinder operation.

New air filter and adapter required.

Beta drive shafts still do the job, but some form of adapter is needed.

Gear linkage is different, so needs some work.

Different engine steady bar needed, as well as new engine mounts.


Consider the need for bigger/better brakes too - but that isn't always needed. Same for suspension upgrades that you may want to follow.

[Chris J]

For the purposes of this, it's costs I'm interested in totting up, rather than the work needed. I suppose not everyone can do the work themselves, but I wasn't going to factor the cost of someone's time into it. I'm not saying forget the time and effort needed though!!

Suspension and brakes upgrade? Yes John, that's another thing.

One potentially expensive and probably essential thing that isn't listed yet:
A radiator that's up to the job? How much are fabricated alloy rads? (I ought to know that already really?)

[Chris J]

Could be 12v or 24v engine - can use the factory ECU too in each case, so saving that extra cost.

That's a good point John. It's just that I'm aware of most people going for a non standard one.

Maybe I'll do a budget price list and another more likely price list?

[Matt No VAT]

Alterations needed to reposition the brace bar on the drivers side of the chassis and also the costs involved in having the fuel tank modified.

Granted the welding of engine mounts, steady bar and gear linkage mounts etc could be done yourself to save costs, but the fuel tank I would leave to a Pro!

Maybe more costs if you relocate the battery, most twinks had them in the engine compartment but I moved mine to the front when I went V6.

Oh yeah, and re-core the X/19 radiator for increased flow if your moving up from a twink.

I've also found a cheaper way of getting an exhaust on the V6 (more details and costs will follow)

[Chris J]

Thanks Matt.

The fuel tank and tension strut mod isn't always necessary and it is Hawk specific. I'll factor it in though (at least £50?)

Re-coring an X1/9 rad? I don't know how much that would be?
It's a good option for the budget list though?
Alloy radiator would be at the very least £275?

I'm sure an unmodified X1/9 rad just isn't an option, so it would have to be an improved one or an alloy replacement?

[Swamprat33]

...and if you are planning to go the after market ECU route, be prepared for at least 1 day on the rollers. Thats another £300 minimum.

Tim

[rutthenut]

...and if you are planning to go the after market ECU route, be prepared for at least 1 day on the

Might take a bit less than that if you are lucky, and using an engine spec and ECU that the operator is all 100% familiar with. But still a fair cost tbh

[Chris J]

How much for a cone (or other) air filter?

[rutthenut]

Air filter can cost from £30 upwards, I guess

[Swamprat33]

Might take a bit less than that if you are lucky, and using an engine spec and ECU that the operator is all 100% familiar with. But still a fair cost tbh

...or in my case take it to a bunch of cowboys. Still got to take it to Emerald to get it sorted properly :mad:

[SUSIT]

Thanks Matt.

The fuel tank and tension strut mod isn't always necessary and it is Hawk specific. I'll factor it in though (at least £50?)

Re-coring an X1/9 rad? I don't know how much that would be?
It's a good option for the budget list though?
Alloy radiator would be at the very least £275?

I'm sure an unmodified X1/9 rad just isn't an option, so it would have to be an improved one or an alloy replacement?


4 Core X1-9 Rad £145

[Matt No VAT]

From memory my X/19 radiator re-core/upgrade cost approx £120

[Chris J]

4 Core X1-9 Rad £145

Thanks Stephen, that's just the sort of info I want to know.

At the moment, without going over the top, a nice V6 Alfa installation looks like no less than £5000. I'm sure that's what a few people will have paid if they dared to add it up. Probably more? I think a budget of £5,500 would be realistic?

Even with a cheap £300 to £600 donor and doing all the fabrication, wiring and machining work yourself, it couldn't be much less than £2000 to £2500.
You wouldn't want to lob something like a 140,000 mile engine/gearbox in without stripping it and rebuilding it though?

[strat6v]

engine

164 12v £ 500.00 inc tarting up and belt etc
164 24v £ 750.00 inc tarting up and belt etc
166 24v £ 1500.00 inc new belt etc ( assuming surplus bits sold)
Gta 24v £ 2500.00 inc new belt etc (like rocking horse tish) :cool:

166 and GTA would require 164,24v throttle body and mounting spacer. £ 100.00? or 24 v plenum complete but have big runners already

166 and GTa's may need aftermarket ecu
Loom mods from £ 25.00 to £ 250.00
166 and GTA boxes will take the bargain (£ 250.00) Q2 torsen diff. but then may need electronic speedo £ 300.00?

battery tray re-fabrication £ 25.00
Re use Alfa donor battery cable, new terminals £5.00?

Later 24v don't need the chassis tube moving or tank cutting down.

donor fuel pump can be re used, ask Guy.

Samco hoses and ally tube £ 75.00

Oil cooler and hose/fittings £ 100.00, 24 v has built in stat.

ally rad around £ 300.00

Fuel lines and fittings £75.00?

Hyd clutch hose £ 20.00

Hawk adaptor/conversion kit for v6 £ 450.00?

Air filter and Samco hose plus clips £75.00?

Sruts and springs - ask Bernie :eek:
Brakes- use donor 164, £50.00 to refurb?, brackets available from Hawk

exhaust, Re piped twink system £ 200.00, Bike cans and link pipes £ 400.00, Hawk's system? Cats???

Tacho, cheapish to convert, maybe £ 30+?

Hope this helps.

[Chris J]

John, All that you've mentioned, and starting with a 166 donor would seem to add up to £4,000.

[strat6v]

Not factored in any labour for welding etc?

[CorseChris]

...or in my case take it to a bunch of cowboys. Still got to take it to Emerald to get it sorted properly :mad:

Tim,

Got my K3 installed now....so I may be able to provide a better stab at a map for you soon. Still advise taking it to Emerald for fine-tuning though.

Speaking of Emerald ECU's, it's hardly a decison-maker for a conversion, but with the K3 you can dial-in a multiplier/divider for the tacho so can use a 4 pot tacho with a 6 pot motor and the ECU does the sums for you.

Standard ECU with a standard 12V is just fine - no real need to go aftermarket, but losing the AFM will be worth a few horses. Later ECU's have the immobiliser to worry about, plus all manner of nips & tucks that might be troublesome in a car like ours.

Pretty thorough re-build on a 12V is going to cost about £1k5

I'm still using the 'modifed' 2l exhaust on my V6 but it's way too loud and potentially restrictive (although the volume suggests it probably isn't). Plus side was it only cost about £20 for some bits of tubing.

[catswhiskers]

At the moment, without going over the top, a nice V6 Alfa installation looks like no less than £5000. I'm sure that's what a few people will have paid if they dared to add it up. Probably more? I think a budget of £5,500 would be realistic.

Scary figures. :eek:
If there's a conclusion to be drawn here, surely it's build car as a V6 in the first place (asuming you are building the car).
If you're not, then get some trousers with deep pockets. :rolleyes:

Mick

[chris.richard]

If there's a conclusion to be drawn here, surely it's build car as a V6 in the first place

I suspect that most new chassis sold currently are for V6s, the conversion market is for those of us buying pre-cursed cars

[CorseChris]

FWIW, my first stab at twink to V6 probably cost me about £700 to £1k IIRC including the donor car. Sadly, it turned out that the motor was a bit of a duffer and it didn't last very long. Luck of the draw I suppose.

[Matt No VAT]

What I would add to all of this is that if your converting an HF2000 to a HF3000 and have purchased a decent Alfa 164 donor, then you can recoup some of the costs by selling the unwanted parts off the Alfa.

I bought a donor 164 for £300, then sold the Ansa exhaust system, Compomotive alloys, headlights, rear light clusters, radiator, doors, badges, bootlid plus other odd bits and actually made more money than I originally paid for the car plus the costs of having the shell removed and I got an engine, gearbox and set of brakes out of it!

[Chris J]

If there's a conclusion to be drawn here, surely it's build car as a V6 in the first place Mick

I'm sure I had one once!!

Chris R.
'Pre-cursed', I like it :D

Chris S.
I suppose that's the risk of going too cheap, but I think you were a bit unlucky not to get more miles out of it?

Matt
Yes you can get a fair bit back on the donor cost. I suppose the low mileage Guy Croft motor in my car has some worth too? Probably no more than £550 though with all the Webers/transmission/exhaust and everything? In some ways it would be daft not to enjoy that for some miles first?

[CorseChris]

....
Chris S.
I suppose that's the risk of going too cheap, but I think you were a bit unlucky not to get more miles out of it?


I paid twice what Mick did for his donor!! The motor was allegedly 'rebuilt' by a 'Lotus technician'. I use the quotes advisedly. Said Technician was probably a Domestic Tecnician rather than an Automotive one, based upon the quality of the work. And personally, I suspect 'rebuilt' doesn't mean covering it up with orange silicone sealant to stop the oil leaks! Ho hum. Best see how long my 'rebuilt' motor lasts before I get too up myself about it though.

[Chris J]

I think, given that it HAS to be a Alfa. The 'smart money' donor seems to be the 166 3.0 manual. Even though a non damaged donor of one of those models runs well into four figures?

[mudhut]

I suppose the low mileage Guy Croft motor in my car has some worth too? Probably no more than £550 though with all the Webers/transmission/exhaust and everything?

Must be worth a lot more than that. The first engine (standard except for GC inlet manifold and broken twin DHLA40 carbs) that I bought to replace the original that broke cost me £300. It was a complete pile of crap in every respect. Binned it minus the carbs, manifold, water rails and some ancillaries. A decent GC engine must be worth the best part of £1k even now with low miles.

In some ways it would be daft not to enjoy that for some miles first?

Definitely :D