Progress Reports

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

Hi all, seems like things have been a little slow around here. How about we all post progress reports for our builds / rebuilds / repairs / upgrades / etc. I'll go first.

Since this was the first weekend in months that I actually didn't have to work (YEAH!), I decided to get back to the car. Unfortunately this required cleaning up the garage which had been stuffed with all manner of junk. I spent most of Friday cleaning so that I could devote all Saturday to working on the Stratos with my Dad.

The first thing we did was to look the car over and review our 'To Do' list. We decided that the top priority was to finish up the G4 dash and wiring. To this end, Dad set about trimming the fiberglass dash pieces and I removed most of the contents of the nose. We decided to fabricate new side pieces for the nose and also some flat pieces to help direct the air up through the louvers.

I must say that at first I was not too sure about the G4 dash. It looks very nice and a lot like the real ones, but upon comparing it to my photos (anyone remember the great G4 dash picture hunt?), I decided that the triangular wedges in the corners had been altered to accomodate the Hawk' roll cage tubing (lower A pillar) and that the face of the dash was shorter than the original with a rounded bottom. My biggest concern was that there might not be enough room to accurately copy the original dash layout - particularly on the drivers side where I thought the wedge might interfere with the gauges. I quickly changed my mind once I saw it all assembled in the car. Everything looked great and the only changes required were to move one of the optional gauges and a few switches up a bit. It is interesting to note that the steering column on the left side is only 1/2" different than it was on the right side. I'm very happy with the look and fit of the parts. I'll post some photos as soon as I get a chance.

Well, I guess that's about it for me - what have all of you been up to?

Ciao,

John B.

[chris.richard]

Blood, sweat and tears (and swearing). and I've almost finished my exhaust system. I'd almost finished the welding on it this morning, and ran out of gas. It's made from a pair of modified 164 downpipes, 5 off 2" mandrel bends from Demon Tweeks and the Hawk box and tail pipes. Because of the angle the rear pipe now comes off the manifold. I can't keep the right hand stud, so it's changing to a captive nut on the pipe flange. I can't shift the stud, so the manifold is in the car ready to go to the local garage tomorrow while I'm at Halfords getting Argon.
I've been waiting for some bits from Poweralfa for 3 months, and I'm getting fed up. They told me a week ago they were all packaged up ready to go, but not here yet. Am I alone in choosing suppliers that take months to deliver?
:mad:

[chris.richard]

Another view

[Sando]

know how you two guys feel. I'm struggling to get a few hours a week on my car because of work, and when I do half the time is Spent on two other jobs I needed to do before the one I'd started!

I've been having fun and games with the dash wiring this week. After testing everything individually and all systems working ok, when I connected them all up in place I'm getting 12v from somewhere when I don't want it! I'll attack it with fresh enthusiasm next week now.
As soon as I've cracked this minor hiccup it'll be final fit for the dash before it goes to be covered. I'm planning on then doing some sprucing up in the interior before fitting the seats (Sparco EVOs) and maybe doorbars if I can get them to fit. I've had the seats a few weeks now to try and give myself something to aim for.
Then its door panels and locks, bleed the brakes, flat and polish the paint, get it on a trailer and get it to Abingdon to give it it's first drive (around the paddock)

Well that's the plan..............

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

This is going to sound stupid but I thought it worked really well.

I didn't want to add any more weight than necessary but my door panels were covered with very heavy material. (It was actually quite nice - seemed a shame to remove it.) Aftter taking (and lots of glue) off, the door panels themselves were a bit scratched up. I wanted to recreate the look of the works G4 cars which seemed to have a bumpy texture of some kind on the door panels and top of the dash. I accomplished this with a thin coat of spray on truck bed liner. It's durable, light (I did say thin coat) and covered all the imperfections. Best of all, when I compare it to the pictures, it looks right.

John B.

[colin artus]

I think the original finish for these panels is called Nextel; its still available in Europe.

Colin

[roger001]

Correct - Nextel is a two pack type spray on finish, What they call Black comes out grey, it is also used on the dash and doors of My Toyata Previa!!

[rutthenut]

I've done a few assorted jobs on my car, getting it ready to go racing again.

First task was to get it through the MOT test - which isn't needed for the racing, but it is very useful to allow me take the car for a test drive (and means I can then take it to other car events).

I fitted a replacement door mirror (donated by Rowland, thanks) as mine had broken off. Then the handbrake caliper and mounting brackets had to be reset to get some semblance of braking effort when pulling on the lever. That also involved resetting the rear suspension alignment for camber.

The brake pedal was sticking slightly so the brakes were dragging, so that needed a bit of work on the pivot rod (note - make sure this is well lubed when installed, with copaslip or similar).

The plumbed-in extinguisher bottle had to be sent off for a service, which was performed and returned promptly.

I also had to purchase a transponder (more expense dictated by the events organisers) and fit that to the car.

Checked the slicks to see if they can be used again - they can! They won't be at their best as they are a few years old, but they aren't worn out yet. They have at least been kept in the dark. The wets are hardly worn at all, so they are fine too.

I'll be fitting some wheel spacers to the rear for slightly better track width (disadvantage of using single-piece wheels of ET0 offset). That also requires a new set of wheel studs to fit them. Those are due in today.

General check for fluids and electrics (sidelight and indicator bulb were replaced for the MOT), plus general safety issues. All seems ok. Cleaned the pipercross foam air filter and applied more 'dirt retention fluid' (which looks and smells like EP90 gear oil to me).

Removed old stickers from the car - new ones will be fixed on Sunday when provided for the event. Gave the car a good clean and polish, touched-up various stonechips, put on a new white vinyl background for the race number that goes on the nose.

Besides fitting the wheel spacers and new studs, when they arrive, I need to adjust the front camber and toe for settings more suitable for circuit racing on slicks (I wound that back for use with road tyres some time ago).

Then it's a case of loading it up onto the trailer - once I've collected it - and getting together all the other race paraphernalia and off to play at Brands.

Looking forward to it? Yes.
Somewhat apprehensive? Certainly.

[Sando]

Originally posted by Sando
Well that's the plan..............

in my haste to get over my elecrical hurdle with the dash I seem to have "let some smoke out of the wires" tonight.

You know how you use a fuse and a thin wire from the battery when testing.............well....... I temporerarly took it out - Stupido!
I don't know if something shorted or what, as it's all worked fine before (the only thing I was doing was testing the rheostat /instument lighting) but anyway I've melted the earth wire looped to the instruments.......Good job I put the cut off switch in correctly !

- Helpful comment from the wife when I came in the house distraught, saying I'd melted my wiring. - "What did you do that for" !!

Back to square 100 and more loom rewiring........My way this time so I know it works.;)

[guy mayers]

For the last 18 months the Stratos has been in a friends garage, it's last outing was in August or September when we went to Holland/Belgium for the track day at Zolder.
I tried to start the car in October to get it to the MOT station for it's annual test but it wouldn't start and that was the last time I'd seen it until this weekend. Anyway, nice sunny day yesterday so I thought I'd go drag it out and see if it would start. I went armed with a few spares I thought I might need to cure the cold start problem its had for a while and set to. First job was to pump up the flat tyre and then replace the braided fuel hose with proper injection hose and check the fuel pump was moving fuel properly. That took an hour. Then it was the air flow meter, simple job. Fit the cut out switch, put the newly charged battery in and fire the ignition. Engine turned over nicely but wouldn't fire so the problem wasn't the airflow meter or the fuel pump. Then the starter motor packed up. The motor seemed to be turning but not engaging the ring on the flywheel. So I packed up.
Today I returned to it. With a replacement starter motor. Tried the old one first just to see if was sulking yesterday but ended up swapping it over. It's a job I'd hate to have to do on a 164! Anyway, the new one turns the engine over nicely. But it's still not firing. Check the plugs for sparks (ok) and there is definately fuel pressure. Next part to replace? Throttle cable. The old one is seized solid. I cut the nipple off the end, fed the exposed end into the new outer, taped the old and new outers together with insulating tape, a bit of WD40 and the new cable was pulled into place buy the old one going. Simple. New inner cable fed through and fixed to the pedal and she still won't start. Ok, next part and I have a choice of ECU, throttle body and cold start sensor. Easiest to fit is the cold start sensor. Splash panels off, unbolt the old and fit the new. Try it again and there is a glimmer of hope! She's kicking!! A bit of throttle and she fires up for the first time in six months!! Got a few jobs for the MOT test though. The exhaust is blowing in a couple of places, not surprising as the rear manifold had to come off and went back on with the old gaskets. There is a torn CV joint boot and I think that the steering rack boots have come to the end of their useful lives. I'm sure I'll find more next weekend as I start to check it over ready for Stoneleigh and Abingdon but I'll be there and it won't be in the Spider!
That's 'cos I had to use the Stratos' fire extinguisher on the Spider on the M53 last week. Exhaust clamp broke between the manifold and downpipe, melted the hoses to the brake master cylinder and set fire to the fluid before I could pull over........ Very close. The damage was limited to said master cylinder, clutch cable ,accelerator cable and sevro hose plus the sound padding on the underside of the bonnet. And my nerves!
Guess I've got to buy two extinguishers now........
Take it easy!
Guy

[SUSIT]

Hi all I have been kind of quiet of late. Managed some sailing on Loch Ness plus a bit of Kayaking. Even managed a bit of horse riding but not a geat deal of car work. The weather has been just too good for that!
Having been in the lucky position of having bought my stratos up and running and had the oppertunity to have some nice quiet drives round some of the norths busy roads! with having to do the minimum of work on the car i am now at an important cross roads. Why? well have just returned from a raiding trip to deepest yorkshire fully equipped with trailer. Returned safely with one pristine intact Alfa 164 V6. In the interests of normal marital relations i dropped it off at a good friends near Glasgow some 160 miles south of here. A round trip of 850 miles completed in some 16 hours of driving. Anyway my mate a sh-t hot spanner man is going to fit new starter and get the thing up and runing. (hopfully) Having bought the car without seeing it for the vast sum of £100 I have to say it looks a cracker. All electrics seem to work and the body looks as solid as they come. Some history suggests the 90000 miles on the clock is correct. The problem now is do I put it on the road and run it for a year or so, or take such a good car apart keeping the bits i need for the stratos and binning the rest. At the moment i have a runing strat little work to do to keep it that way for a while till i gather all the bits to go rallying or do i start taking everything to bits. Down side is wife would force sale of Legacy estate if i put 164 on the road. For all the hassle the subaru has given me its a brill tow car sit at 70 all day with the 164 on the back, up hill down dale and still have overtaking ability. Back to the stratos. Having re glassed the area of the door catch mounting on the co driver side i have the same job on the other side. Means taking the door panel off. In an earlier thread sombody was looking for pics of this area if i remember. Anybody still need them? Getting some design work done on roll cages so hope to have solution to my problems in that area soon. Well not really much progress in a way but movement all the same.
Happy spannering to you all

Stephen Struthers

[roger001]

Time to get down to those jobs I've been trying to avoid/postpone. My least favorite - restuffing a transformer silencer.

I've tried glass fibre - lasts about a week!
I've tried basalt wadding - lasts about a month!

This time I'm trying stainless steel wool - fingers crossed.

[roger001]

Oops - forgot the picture.

[chris.richard]

That all just looks a bit James Herriot to me!

[roger001]

What do you expect from deepest Yorkshire...

[mogul_x]

After a seemingly interminable winter, I finally got back to work on my HF3000 last night!! Not that I managed to get a whole lot done, but it was good to finally make some measurable progress. :D

First thing I did was to do a little grinding to the area forward of the doors, to eliminate some interference between the front edge of the doors and the wheel arch on the tub. Now, I can get both doors all the way open.

Actually, the first thing I did was to get stung by a wasp that had taken up residence inside a bag of tools in my garage. Right on the tip of my right middle finger, which made it very difficult to curse the little bastard in Italian.;) Also made it slightly uncomfortable to work for the next couple of hours.....

Then, I did a couple of minutes work on the alloy louver panels on the nose. Not a whole lot more than trimming the outside corners on the two outer panels. There had been some interference in the corners, which caused the outboard edge of the extreme left and right panels to sit proud of the nose. Now, they sit flush.

While I had the tinsnips out, I did a little work on the alloy panels that sit on top of the wheel arch mentioned above. Just a little trimming to make sure the parts went together.

Next, I drilled two holes on the rear bodywork to fit the roof spoiler. Not exactly challenging, I know, but any time I can actually put a part on the car, I consider it progress. I still have to drill and tap the holes for attaching the bottom legs of the spoiler, so that job's not quite finished.

Lastly, I fitted the headlight doors. That didn't take as long as I thought it would, and it made me wonder if I was doing it right. So far, it looks like the diagrams in the build manual (:rolleyes: ), and both doors appear to line up properly when shut. With any luck, I won't discover any problems with them after I install the links and motors.

That's about it for now. I'll post any additional progress as I make it.

Cheers,

[guy mayers]

Hi Scott, and anyone else reading this article for inspiration! Lots of people have struggled to get the rod length right so that the lamp starts and stops in the correct position. Here's how it's done!
Install all the components with the linkage loose on the spindle of the motor. Just enough bite that it can be moved but doesn't slip. The best starting position is with the lamp retracted and the linkage running directly across the spindle. Any movement in either direction will cause the pod to raise.
Next rotate the arm around the spindle 180 degrees being careful that the pod doesn't catch anywhere. Unless you are really lucky the lamp will be out of position. Now, lock the arm on the spindle and then adjust the length of the arm, counting the number of rotations, until the lamp is in the correct up position. Then, divide the number of rotations by two and wind the linkage adjustment back by that number and lock the linkage. Then free off the spindle nut and rotate the linkage 360 degrees to check nothing fouls, if it doesn't then lock the spindle nut up with the light in the down position and test the electrical operation of the lights. They should stop and start in the right places.
Alternatively, lock them in the up position and leave them there permanently!
Guy

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by guy mayers
Lots of people have struggled to get the rod length right so that the lamp starts and stops in the correct position. Here's how it's done!

Well done Guy, that's a really good explanation of how to get this right - I've struggled with general trial-and-error in the past without applying this extra bit of logic to the process!

[Jeff Davison]

Just posted in the photo section some eye candy of the progress on my Hawk so far. Just fitting major components in the front end. Liquid-Air intercooler heat exchanger in front of ally radiator, water resevoit & pump behind. The 308 fan motor and heater core box can be seen in some shots and on the other side, the horns and washer bag are trial fitted. Also I'm fitting a Halon 1211 fire system.

Lotsa stuff to fit in a limited ammount of space. I still want to fit a deflector behind the radiator to direct incoming air up through the hood louvers.

I've also uploaded a few shots of the supercharged 308QV plenum that I'm working on.

Just doing a lot of trial fitting and project juggleing. Things are starting to come together in their own time.

Just didn't want you guys to think I've been sitting on my duf!

Jeff Davison

[John]

Jeff
just checked out your photo's on the gallery-very impressive-we can all see you have not been sitting on your "whatsit" now.
One question... the texture on the underside of your body panels does not look like chopped strand mat--- more like a woven fabric of some kind in the glass--- have you any more information for me on what it is? I'm researching options for bodywork production at the moment.
John

[CorseChris]

Hi John,

I'm pretty sure it's Kevlar.

[Jeff Davison]

that's the carbon-kevlar weave that Gerry offers as an option. Very light, very strong.

JD

[John]

I suspected that was what it was. I've read about it but not actually seen any before. According to Simon McBeath's book "Competition Car Composites" aramid/carbon weaves work out about 50% lighter for the same stiffness panel, but about three times the cost in material, but heck you only build one once don't you?
Still not sure I can afford it though!
John

[colin artus]

I have got the tub and doors on my car in Kevlar and they are noticably stiffer than the fibreglass equivalent. However there is a cheaper alternative and that is woven glass rather than the chopped strand mat that is the norm. Also, a big improvement in strength comes from using epoxy rather than polyester resin.


colin

[CorseChris]

Probably a milestone for my Corse yesterday - finally took it off the chassis trolleys and put it on it's wheels.

Looks different sat down there on the floor.....


...and I think I'll be looking for some Leda struts sooner than I thought, the back is way too high on the Beta items. I suppose I could always cut the spring a wee bit for now. Not ideal though. Or perhaps some of those 'coil-over converters' would do until I can spare £400 for the proper things.


And a question for any Corse S owners out there.....what did you set the rear tracking at?? I am aiming for 0 but am running out of adjustment on the right side at the moment. Also, what did your rear camber come out at?? Mine is looking like -1. Opinions on this welcomed, bearing in mind this is initially a mild road car, not a track day toy. Sounds too much to me for what i have in mind but adjusting it will be awkward of course.

TIA

[Arthur]

Mine (3 ltr V6 Cloverleaf 12V Corse I) (V 931 ENE) has been legal over 4 years now, but still ......

MOT'd it recently. No probs at all.
Next day, no windscreen washer.
Took the column shrouds off (Alfa 164 column), found no continuity at all. Split the loom at a convenient point, found the wire, cut it - still nothing either way. God knows, so now disconnected, ends cropped off, and a new 12V supply run to the washer. Damn glad it wasn't the switch.

Airflow over radiator reported elsewhere - spent 2 days drilling out the seized stainless dome-heads from the ally rivnuts. Got the grille off, took it for a belt, Lo! it cooled OK. Which it didn't before - anything over constant 70mph, it just warmed up and kept rising.
So, blocked off all the gaps round the rad, fitted an ally baffle to seal the gap at the bottom, and ally plate spoiler just below the grille. Changed the Rivnuts I'd knackered, set stainless studs, and secured the grille with stainless nylocks. Looks OK and cools OK now.

Reversing light didn't work. Note the fault-finding technique here .... Whipped the switch out. Noted its full of water. Cleaned it up, soldered decent tails, and potted the terminals. Altered loom ends to suit, refitted switch, still doesn't work. Tested switch - knackered. New one ordered. (Mind you, there are apparently 3 types - early pre-91. Late - post 91, and Cloverleaf. Don't know what the differences are - I hope just the terminals and loom connections, cos I've ordered a Cloverleaf switch with fingers crossed, on the assumption that that basic box has been fitted to just about everything for years, and I hope like hell there are no mechanical differences. Possible someone out there can advise - but at about £10.58 plus VAT, its not that bad a gamble.

Interior lights didn't work - permanently on when switched on.
Took the frigging loom apart again to trace the bloody wiring, getting a touch miffed by this stage, to find that the switches all work, the lights go on and off - and just what the hell was wrong? So I put the interior lamp pod back in (its a Sierra thingy) and all OK. Then the pod popped out again. After a couple of goes at this, you know how it is, I re-bent the locking tab, pushed it hard til it clicked into place, and - my bloody light comes on permanently again. Must be bending the damn lamp pod and getting a cross-over contact up there. Run out of steam now.

Getting to the back of the car, Gunked 4 years of collected crud off. There was a streak on the back surface of the tank, I wanted to find the oil leak. Well, no oil leak. There was a petrol leak, however. Pinhole in the flat stainless plate. Not a stress point, must just be an imperfection in the plate. Now how do you repair that? No solder, no drilling (drill tips get V. hot) etc - so ended up Sikaflexing an ally plate over the top, reasoning that nothing in this world will remove Sikaflex, so it would do. And it has. Just need to keep an eye on it for a while now to make sure its permanent.

Finally found the source of my oil traces - just a coupling on the oil cooler. All the air that gets in (and there isn't much) blows the oil everywhere, disguising the leak, and of course refuses to go through the cooler core on the way, over/under/round being easier.
So, oil leak cured, and managed to fit a lashed-up duct to actually get some air to the cooler core. Seems to have made a difference - oil stays below 110 now, where it used to go ballistic, but that may be more to do with the engine temp being under control.

Driving about in my new cool car. I wonder that I'm still getting unfeasably warm. Check the cold air supply - there isn't one. Note here I've been driving it for some time now with the heater full on to keep the engine reasonable (I could slow down I suppose, but where's the fun in that?). Now I have the chance for cold, and I can't find any. Spend a full day suspecting everything - my new spoiler, fans knackered, etc - then find the water control valve so badly adjusted it won't shut off. Now it does, and I can atually get cool in the cab - this is such a major step forward. Wish I'd taken the trouble years ago.

Checked over everything, seems OK now, couple of water seeps tightened, etc, and I'm reasonably happy again.

Car cleaned and polished, alloys cleaned, fluid levels checked etc, and that's that for me for now.

Roll on Friday, and we can get some serious miles up with every prospect of a drinky-poo at the end.

Reagrds
Arthur.

[Arthur]

Suspension settings - can't speak for the Corse S, cos I haven't got one, but the Corse I was designed to run (initially, at least) half a degree of negative all round, and 9 minutes toe-in per wheel.
Castor is set at about 4 degrees.

I found the front the worst - driver side at absoltue minimum adjustment to give 0.5 degree negative, passy side running nearer 0.75 degree at minimum.
Rears are OK, but a bugger to find the centreline to re-adjust the toe after adjusting.

MUCH LUCK - my Corse I build manual is actually a Corse S - so its 30 minutes negative camber all round, and 10 minutes toe-in per wheel. Bump steer set to as near zero as you can (about mid-position in the rack slots).

Regards
Arthur.

[CorseChris]

Arthur,

Thanks for those figures......my build manual is for the Corse I as it happens...want to swap? :)

I've got 1 degree toe-in overall at the rear at the moment - way too much. It's all one side as well, which is a pain, but nothing some abrasion won't solve..... I suspect that the Beta upright wasn't exactly square to the pivot tube when it was welded up.

Beginning to wish I'd put a couple of holes in the chassis underneath for a centreline datum now... Not too late I suppose. Certainly make all this nonsense easier to do. The rear is awkward isn't it....

30 minutes camber sounds sensible for what I want, I think....front is easy enough of course (with the hassles you note) but it looks like I'll need some of those swanky adjusters for the back end...although I suppose I could opt for the big-hole-with-eccentric-washer-welded-on technique for now.

I managed to dial out the bumpsteer OK (eventually...) but it's a bit at one end of the slots on mine (V old chassis, slightly modded as per direction from Hugh). Castor set to 4 as well.

Your comments re the shrouding at the front are interesting as I'd planned on doing just that myself to try and encourage airflow through the rad rather than allowing it to spill round the easy bypass routes. That sure is a big hole at the bottom isn't it.


Still, shouldn't get ahead of myself - still need to finish the bodywork & trim so I can get it painted & SVA tested.


Cheers

Chris

[Stratos]

Chris,

My settings were Allora-based, but the back-end and front end had been modded to be much the sames as a Corse S.

I tried all the way up to 1.5 degrees toe-in at the back, and gradually worked back to 0.75 degrees - that seemed ideal for me. It dialled out some oversteer, but didn't put in too much understeer - there was too much understeer with 1.5.

Rear camber - I ended up with 1.5 degrees negative, but for rally use, I am planning on trying a bit more negative.

Front I run with 1.5 degrees toe-in, 2.5 degrees negative camber, and 5 degress castor.


This was all with 205 front and 225 rear tyres.

[CorseChris]

Thanks David - some more figures for me to work at. Proof will be in the driving of course, but at least I have a sensible & tested range of figures to aim at for initial setup, which is brilliant. I shouldn't be too far wrong if I aim for the middle somewhere.

I'm running 225/45/16 rear and 205/50/16 front BTW.. Absolutely loads of offset at the back, and loads of inset at the front.

[roger001]

Using my basic trigonometry skills, I still revert to parallel fishing line for setting toe in/out.

1 degree toe works out at 6.5 mm differential between front /rear of a 15" rim.

So that means Dave was running nearly 10mm of toe per wheel at one point!!

[CorseChris]

In one of my all too rare moments of good luck, I managed to pick up a Dunlop optical tracking gauge set for £50...

...so when I was measuring the rear toe at the weekend I was horrified to see that 2 degrees equated to around 25mm total toe on a 16" rim.

No wonder it looked a bit pidgeon-toed :)

[Arthur]

Addressing the buggeration of (Corse I) suspension settings, and equally without datum points in the chassis to mark the centreline, was a bit of a pain.

I actually intended to put datum points in, then make a 1-inch square section steel tube to bolt in for a fixed C/L for set-up. I didn't, eventually, cos I suspected the suspension mounting points were not exactly symmetrical (had trouble with tubes and nuts on bolts - different side to side). I intended to fit the suspension first, then do a proper marking-out job, then never got round to it.

So, I did my first set-up using oil cans, wooden blocks, and bricks, with a couple of lengths of Builders line and a steel 5-metre tape measure.
I assumed - cos the tubes looked and measured closely - that if I set the rears vertical, with the same top-arm measurement, I could use the distance from the wheel centre each side as a datum.
I stretched taut strings each side of the car, set parallel and equidistant from the rear wheel centres, at as near wheel centre height as I could manage, and set the front wheels upright equidistant from the strings.
I had a ADA camber gauge, and the cheaper of the handle-type corner weight gauges.

It proved good enough to measure toe-in to a degree by millimeter measurement to the line. In fact, about 36 months later I took it to Andy at Avia Sports Cars (Cardiff - don't ask) who set it on corner weight scales and checked it over - only had to adjust one wheel, and shift a few pounds weight.
Otherwise it was within the tolerance of his gear.
Well pleased was I. Heath Robinson works OK. Bump steer was far the worst thing to do. Eventually took the gauge off, and bungy-strapped 6 feet of straight wood to the bloody wheel, and jacked it up and down til the the wood stopped waving about.

As to where you set them - I'd say my 1/2 degree negative is just splendid as a road car. 12,500 mls on, and dead even wear across the tread. 9 minutes toe- equally splendid. No abnormal tyre wear at all.

As a track-day job, I really need a lot more neg camber, and probably a lot stiffer springing. The outer shoulders wear, a lot, all wheels, and it rolls more than somewhat. Problem for the road is that that's most of my miles, and it tramlines like crazy anyway - more neg would just make that worse. Plus the wet, of course. Wet grip is acceptable at the moment - I don't want to ruin that.

As to where you point the wheels - theory suggests that if you run in rubber bushes (I do) then you want the toe-in on non-drive fronts that will become zero under load.
At the rear, you want to NOT generate any toe-out at all, so a little toe-in is in order, which will become a little more toe-in under drive in rubber bushes.

If you go all rose-joint, you simply need less static.

Til you start to tune it all, then its preference. Front toe-in - lots of - will force slip angle into the tyre. As you start a turn, the car will turn in sharp as you like. Too much, then it washes out - cos the inner wheel is going from forced wrong-way slip, through zero slip, then has to catch up. So you are, in effect, strangling the outer wheel. But if it works - what the hell. Maybe try taking the toe-in off, and stiffening the front to get the weight transfer. Or try to alter the steering arms as the racing boys do - I note the formula cars hardly steer the inner wheel at all these days, as opposed to 10 or so years ago when they used to grossly oversteer the inner wheel. Just an Ackerman change through steering arm inclination if anyone wants to have a go.

At the rear, more and more toe-in gives more and more drive in the understeer direction as you get on the power. Too much will screw the grip, and revert to oversteer on the way in, then major understeer on the way out. Should you run a slippy diff, then this should plant the inner wheel, giving you big understeer anyway (compared with the open diff) under power, so the problem then becomes getting the car loose enough. You may wish to experiment with putting castor on the rear hubs to induce bump-steer (or roll steer, as it will be called). Rule is no toe-out in bump, or it steers like a dump-truck under power on the way out. Unless that's what you want to get the bugger sideways in a hurry on the loose.

Again, so much for the theory. Any of this should be checked for veracity against someone who knows what they're doing. I'm really enjoying seeing what actually works out there. Is it worth starting a dedicated thread on set-ups?

Regards
Arthur.

[CorseChris]

Arthur,

There's a good deal of food for thought there (a whole banquet really) so I'll go and have a chew and see what I can digest from it (am I pushing the analogy too far here? ;)).

Seriaously though - thank you for all the input, it's much appreciated. Hopefully, armed with this, and the other gems I shouldn't make too much of a mess of things with mine.

Regards

Chris

[Arthur]

That gearbox reversing light switch I mentioned earlier.

Now, the switch was "iffy" when I bought the lump, so I made an assumption. I assumed the damn thing would be a straight switch - open in neutral and forward; closed in reverse, and therefore just stuck it in series with the lighting supply to the reversing light.

Now I am the proud owner of £9.65 worth of Cloverleaf switch, I find its a true Italian job. The bloody switch is CLOSED at Neutral/Forward, and open in reverse gear. So my light is on all the time.

All I need now is a lamp that is out at 12V and on at 0V, and I've cracked it.
Worst of it is if I stick a relay in, which is eminently possible, the relay coil will be another permanent drain on the power, which I need like a hole in the head. Naturally, I've run the supply from the lighting, which I chose to be straight off the battery. Changing the loom to a switched supply leaves me somewhat anxious.

Bugger.
:(

[CorseChris]

That's a PITA....what is it with Alfa and their insistence on reversing the logic of all their switches???

Pain, but a switched feed is probably wiser. The Marcos had a permanently live feed for the reversing light (although the switch made more sense) but it was all too easy to leave it in reverse and walk away from it...coming back to find the alarm bleating 'cos the battery had gone flat.

If you'd rather avoid another relay, I can knock you up a FET inverter if you like. Parasitic drain would be near as makes no odds bugger all....

[guy mayers]

If the car has a master cut off switch then using a relay to invert the signal won't drain the battery - assuming you've got a cut out switch it's got to be the easy way out.
Guy

[David May]

A small automotive relay will only absorb 100mA (1W) and you obviously supply it from after the ignition switch.

This active-off setup is very common today, where almost all sensors switch to ground and go to a control unit first, which can then easily diagnose a fault, even when the circuit is not active.

Dave May

[CorseChris]

So, I managed a bit of time on the car yesterday. Converted the struts to coil-over (which went remarkably well), tweaked the rear suspension to get the toe where it should be, confirmed that the camber was at least matched although I have no adjustment at present....set the ride height.

..then moved back to sorting the NS rear wheelarch and found to my joy that it just gets worse the closer I look. Don't know what or why, but whoever had a go at it before I got it sure did one hell of a number on it. Ho hum...... wish I'd bought a new rear section to go along with the tub now.

Still, nothing another few days with filler, resin and matting won't resolve I suppose....

I think I'll poach Chris' tag but modify for my own use (well, of course it would need modifying, it won't fit otherwise will it?? :rolleyes: ...)

One Step Forward, Two Steps Back....

[CorseChris]

I suppose that now my car is painted, I should move my posts from the Paint Code thread to this one...

So, some progress.

Shame it looks like a frog though....

[chris.richard]

Hmm, nice. Maybe one day soon........

[CorseChris]

Having played with the pop-up headlights for the first time on Sunday evening....I now find the thought of adding a 'wink' switch almost irresistible :D

[chris.richard]

Yes, I can feel the force too ! But what would the MOT man say?

[CorseChris]

Yes, I can feel the force too ! But what would the MOT man say?

How would he know?? I certainly shan't tell him.

[CorseChris]

More done this weekend....replace lumpy cams with some standard ones (because I couldn't get the tappet gaps right with standard shims and use a gasket on the cambox...and couldn't stop it leaking...and it rattled like heck anyway....and it wouldn't idle), replace exhaust system with one that has sensible length primaries (because it wouldn't idle and it was too loud and it sounded like a constipated VW Beetle) plus a bunch of wiring and assorted small items.

[CorseChris]

Winter weather is closing in now so I'm pretty much reduced to doing small jobs that can be done indoors...

...speaking of doors :) this might help those interested in the Fiat Barchetta mirrors.

[SUSIT]

Well its not a Stratos we can all see that so how is it progress?
2 reasons, first the wife wont let the Stratos back in the garage untill the midas is finished, second I have been testing my painting skills to confirm that I will tackle the Stratos myself. Really big saving to be made here. (tight fisted Scotsman again) Quite pleased with the result, even a bit of stratos bodywork there now.
Stephen

[Swamprat33]

Sorry Steve, but the Midas looks like a fried egg with that yellow/white paintjob. Is that the final colour?

Cheers

Tim

[Chris J]

Stephen

Have you seen this?:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2192&item=4506670642&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

Reserve met at £310. Ugly little things, but for some reason I quite like them, and they're SO cheap!

Midas is the modern version, right?

[SUSIT]

Sorry Steve, but the Midas looks like a fried egg with that yellow/white paintjob. Is that the final colour?

Cheers

Tim


Hi Tim,
Fried so! whats wrong with eggs and anyway my 14 year old daughter thinks its cool which is more than she thinks of the Stratos.
Yup final colour, Advice from those who know better than me was to use light colours as it hides the ripples you get in the gel coat,, I was going for black and yellow originally. My Stratos is going yellow, white and blue so I was wanting the practice.

Chris J
Reserve met at £310. Ugly little things, but for some reason I quite like them, and they're SO cheap!

Midas is the modern version, right?

Hi Chris
Yes I think you are right but made by different companies. Personally I wouldnt have bought either as I am not a mini man but a so called friend gave me the Midas 4 or so years ago and I dont feel I can sell it so need to make use of it. Sitting on 1964 plate was originally built from a cooper S so free Tax. Will use it for going to work and the odd road rally, should be fun.
Anyway it has given me the confidence to tackle painting the Stratos and that gets me a tiny bit nearer getting it back on the road and more importantly the track or stage as I am a rally man.

Regards
Stephen

[guy mayers]

Here's a new progress report. It's gone! I have an empty space in the garage.......... I'll probably never see it again how I remember it. Sad day.


But it'll be back in a couple of weeks with a new coat of paint and a deadline for Stoneleigh! Can it be rebuilt in two weeks and MOT'd I wonder? Only time will tell but I am not too confident, still lots to be done and so little time!
Guy

[shaun]

Ah,

Now I too can post here. Progres is a little slow and all the jobs that have been put off for another day have been put off for another week. Car could go on its wheels if they were finished!

[catswhiskers]

Looks like we're all making headway. Could be a bumper year for replicas. As you will see, I'm currently up to my elbows in fibreglass dust. At least the major work is behind me now (I think). Hopefully ready for primer in the next couple of weeks.
I wonder if the wife will lend me the Dyson to clean up a bit.
Cheers,
Mick

[chris.richard]

Don't inhale!

(Unless you're wearing a mask)

[catswhiskers]

Now you tell me!!!!

(only joking)

Does get a bit foggy though dunnit.

Mick

[chris.richard]

This thread's still active after over two years - is that a record?

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

Yeah - kinda strange how it keeps going on.

My latest Stratos update is that tomorrow I can finally order the new seats.

I know it's not much but it's better than nothing.

John B.

[CorseChris]

Looking good Mick...

...but just you wait until it comes out of the oven :(

I still can't quite figure out what happened to the rear section on my car. It fitted pretty darn well before paint. Not quite so good now though....maybe it'll move back in time.

[catswhiskers]

Chris, I hear what you are saying about the oven but as you may remember, my son is a paint sprayer and, while I dont understand the science of paints, he informs me that we wont be using the oven, instead, some special 'air dry' activator that eliminates the need for heat cure. Specially designed for fibreglass type applications. Hopefully, that should save me a few headaches. (in theory anyway)

We'll see.

Mick

[rutthenut]

One of the recommendations has been to put the bodywork into the paint oven before preparation. This can show up any minor bubbles in the gel coat, which can then be filled/flattened in the preparation stage rather than perhaps finding them later. This is probably not such an issue with well made grp bodywork, but is just something I'd heard of.

[John]

You have reminded me again John, to try and find out more about heating the panels before painting (I think post curing is the technical term).
Surely somebody here can offer us some guidelines?

[Chris J]

John B.

What kind of seats are you fitting? and...

...you won't know this, and you might not want to know this anyway, but Amarillo is very much in the news here at the moment!

[Sando]

One of the recommendations has been to put the bodywork into the paint oven before preparation. This can show up any minor bubbles in the gel coat, which can then be filled/flattened in the preparation stage rather than perhaps finding them later. This is probably not such an issue with well made grp bodywork, but is just something I'd heard of.

After my experience with a lead lamp I don't think I'd go anywhere near an oven! You'd end up with a very wobbly shaped car with bubbles still in the Gel coat ;) I know you don't mean so hot, but if the sun and heat within the boot can make the boot lid sink and sag, I would keep any heat away if at all possible. Mine has moved all over the place in one summer! On the other hand though it can be used effectively to make things fit in the first place :rolleyes:
Cheers
Rob

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

They're a Sparco Evo for me and an Evo 2 XL for the passenger side.

That's odd - why is Amarillo in the news there?

John B.

[chris.richard]

You have reminded me again John, to try and find out more about heating the panels before painting (I think post curing is the technical term).
Surely somebody here can offer us some guidelines?


I was told that mine had been in the oven before painting. The panels all fit fine & straight. Whether they will after the repaint ...... :(

[mudhut]

This thread has a clear common purpose but it is quite old and the stories in it are very varied so might this thread be better as a separate category on the forum front page?

Just a thought.

[CorseChris]

Just posted a few more rather iffy pictures of progress...

..nothing dramatic or particularly inspired, just your run of the mill black interior....although I did take Susits advice and pad the rollcage over the doors. You could well argue that trimming rollcage padding with Alcantara is maybe a wee bit over the top....

[Swamprat33]

I dont know about them being iffy Cris.
The car is looking damn fine now.
Cant wait to see it in the flesh.

Good luck with the test.
Tim

[Bernard]

Its looking good.....far to good to be used !
Good Luck with the SVA
Cheers
Bernard

[lpriestland]

Fan-bloody-tastic Chris, a lovely job.

Surely she'll sail thru SVA, fingers crossed.

[guy mayers]

Going backwards and VERY depressed tonight.
I collected the newly painted wheels from the specialist and they were nothing like the paint chip I'd left with them. Details on the paint tin match the colour code and name so something isn't right.
Took the wheels to the car and sure enough they don't match the colour on the body - that matches the paint chip.
Having got to the bottom of it now I think it looks like the painter has realised there was a discrepancy between the colour name and code, checked the code and found a red 152 called Rosso Vivo (right name, wrong number) and Monza Red 151 (right number wrong name), compared it to the Kyosho model and picked the darker of the two as it was closer to the model.
Trouble is, when I compare the wheels and paint chip to the Italian supplied decals the red ought to match to you know which one is right.
The effing wheels.
I am not looking forward to tomorrow when I have to talk to Pete and ask him to repaint the car the right red.
And the car was booked to come home tomorrow.
Shit happens. And it's happened to me.
More delays - might not make Abingdon at this rate!
Guy

[chris.richard]

Ouch, Guy, I can almost feel the pain. In the wallet as well as the frustration! :mad:

I got a reply from Compomotive about the gold colour for wheels, but they can't produce a paint code from the powder coating colours. So if anybody can suggest a colour for the wheels, I'd be grateful. I'm working on Humbrol Met 16 at the moment! :confused:

[guy mayers]

How about asking Barry if he'd be willing to powder coat your wheels for you in the gold colour? I'm sure he likes cash as much as I like beer tokens - and I think I'm about to use a few!
Guy

[CorseChris]

Guy, that's really bad news to hear. There seems to be a huge confusion with some of these old paint codes/names. I'm still not sure I got the right green for my car, but it looks OK so it'll do. Not the attitude that will satisfy your standards though!

You'll make it right in the end.

[chris.richard]

How about asking Barry if he'd be willing to powder coat your wheels for you in the gold colour? I'm sure he likes cash as much as I like beer tokens - and I think I'm about to use a few!
Guy

I think the cost of sending 10 wheels there and back plus the powdercoating cost would postpone the whole project for several years!

[CorseChris]

Tim, it was more a comment on the quality of the pics than the subject to be honest. Not one of my better 'Kodak moments'.

Bernard, too good to be used? Who said I was ever going to dare use it??? :)

Lee, most kind ;) ...and I hear you car is progressing quietly too.......can't wait to hear that V8

[Mark Cowling]

Hi all when I tried to match the powder coat gold colour it was a late 1970 ford metalic colour that was the nearest I will try and find the no Regards Mark.

[SUSIT]

I think the cost of sending 10 wheels there and back plus the powdercoating cost would postpone the whole project for several years!

Ah Chris your giving clues away about your latest paint scheme. :)

[Mark Cowling]

The gold colour nearest to the powder coat I could find was ford F solar po30-6519 gold Regards Mark.

[chris.richard]

Thanks Mark

[guy mayers]

Well, most of the car is home now, back where it belongs on the ramp so the rebuild can start in earnest! The rear louvres, spoilers, lamp pod and bootlid should be back next week. That only leaves the new pods and the pod cover to be fettled before paint. The really good news is that it's the right colour now. The bad news is that it's going to take longer to put back together than I thought... Run out of cash again! So, I may be at Abingdon but don't hold your breath!
Guy

[guy mayers]

Some more progress before I go and do some more fibreglassing!
The steering column has been seriously modified..... Originally I think I used an X19 upper casing with a standard ignition lock, albeit modified to fit the opposite side of the column. Well, this wouldn't fit with the new Gp4 dash so the choice was to either run without the lock (unhappy insurance man) or use a Fiat 124 assembly which fits under the dash.... except that the upper section is too short! So, I ended up using the top half of the X19 casing welded to the bottom part of the 124 casing, the original steering shaft with an extra lock slot sleeve welded in the appropriate place. I think I'm happier with an ignition lock irrespective of what Mr Insurance man says!
There is also a spigot welded onto the underside of the column for the handbrake. Works cars used a piece of Bowden cable operating on the balance bar. Very effective (except where the cable chafes on wiring....) but highly illegal as far as the MOT goes. A couple of brackets and a clutch cable will see everything working again with the added advantage that I can muck around with leverages until the handbrake works properly!
Just a little more glass work on the new dash to do then it's got to be rewired and painted matt black before I can move onto other things.
Still hoping to make it for Abingdon but not really likely - just too much to do and no free weekends to concentrate on it between now and then.
Guy

[Stratos]

I suppose I better make a Progress Report on my car, and the chances of it being at Abingdon.

This is a picture of it being stripped down ready for the rebuild.

[Stratos]

Here's another shot of it.

At this point I'd started stripping out the carpets, and I needed to refit the old suspension so I could get it over to Keith Waite's garage where the rebuild was to start.

[Stratos]

That old petrol tank has to come out.

[Stratos]

Here are a few of the bits that need to go into the car.

[Stratos]

We stripped off all the old suspension on Monday, and started fitting all the new bushes to the suspension arms.

Tuesday we fitted new bearings in the hubs, and fitted new top and bottom ball joints.

Wednesday I went and picked up the new suspension from AVO, and we fitted that on temporarily.

Started looking at fitting the engine on Thursday night, and did some more on it tonight.

Will post some pictures of the car in Keith's garage tomorow.


(P.S. When I say we, what I really mean is Keith did the work, and I looked on. I did paint the inside and the front and rear comparments though :) )

[rutthenut]

Well, my 24-valve engine installation led to a broken foot some weeks ago and I haven't touched the car since. Missing the Monte Trip and still being in pain has done nothing for my motivation.

I'll see if I can get my ar5e in gear this weekend to get the car running again, so that I then have a chance of using my Abingdon Sprint entry.

[Stratos]

John,

Is this the supa-duda all singing, all dancing engine from Aidie Hawkins?

If so, it'll certainly give Jerry something to think about on the sprint.

[rutthenut]

'Fraid not.

It was intended as a cheap and cheerful transplant to replace my old 12v when that developed a head gasket problem. Intention being that it would be cheaper to put in a standard 24v engine than to rebuild the old engine to it's original 217bhp spec.

But there were some delays/hassle in getting the donor unit to begin with, then I managed to let the engine hoist fall onto my foot. That put a hold on any further car/engine work; most upsetting was cancellation of the Monte trip.

I've only just got back to rewiring/replumbing the new engine into the car and have kind of lost interest in it - having spent money and time on it, then getting injured (still not completely cleared up), missing Monte, being in pain for weeks (months) meaning further car work was not really on the cards.

If I get the engine running this afternoon then I've realised the MOT runs out a couple of days before Abingdon. I can see little chance of getting that done in time, since work is taking up more of my time than it could. That even makes getting a trailer more than a little difficult. So it's not looking good right now.

But if I do get the electrics right and the engine fires up, maybe I could also get fired up and enthusiastic again.

As for the sprint, I found that using old road tyres on Stradale rims was the biggest handicap on the morning runs, compared to those on Group 4 slicks with limited slip diffs. If I have more power, I still wouldn't be able to get the traction off the line and out of the 90-degree bends. However, I do now have some Toyo R888 sticky road tyres that would make something of a difference. Be nice to see if that helps...

[rutthenut]

'Fraid not.

It was intended as a cheap and cheerful transplant to replace my old 12v when that developed a head gasket problem. Intention being that it would be cheaper to put in a standard 24v engine than to rebuild the old engine to it's original 217bhp spec.

But there were some delays/hassle in getting the donor unit to begin with, then I managed to let the engine hoist fall onto my foot. That put a hold on any further car/engine work; most upsetting was cancellation of the Monte trip.

I've only just got back to rewiring/replumbing the new engine into the car and have kind of lost interest in it - having spent money and time on it, then getting injured (still not completely cleared up), missing Monte, being in pain for weeks (months) meaning further car work was not really on the cards.

If I get the engine running this afternoon then I've realised the MOT runs out a couple of days before Abingdon. I can see little chance of getting that done in time, since work is taking up more of my time than it could. That even makes getting a trailer more than a little difficult. So it's not looking good right now.

But if I do get the electrics right and the engine fires up, maybe I could also get fired up and enthusiastic again.

As for the sprint, I found that using old road tyres on Stradale rims was the biggest handicap on the morning runs, compared to those on Group 4 slicks with limited slip diffs. If I have more power, I still wouldn't be able to get the traction off the line and out of the 90-degree bends. However, I do now have some Toyo R888 sticky road tyres that would make something of a difference. Be nice to see if that helps...

[Stratos]

I'm sure that if there is anything any of us can do to help, you just have to ask.

If you need the car trailering up there, just ask.

[Stratos]

Beginning to look a little like a car, rather than just a chassis.

[Stratos]

Engine runs. Gear linkage works.

Job list still long, but there's still 5 days before Abingdon.

Will post some updated pictures tonight.

[rutthenut]

Well, the electrics work on my car - still need to tidy them up, but checked that they are connected properly and none of the smoke escaped from the wires.

Fired the engine up briefly, with no exhaust system beyond the downpipes, no coolant pipes connected and more general tidying needed.

Now up in Ipswich all week, so nothing more will happen on my car before Abingdon :(

[Stratos]

Getting close, but there's still a lot to do - still got Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday :eek: .

[Stratos]

Front end is looking very full.

[Stratos]

"Keith, I'm sure you can find somewhere to put that......" :D

[Stratos]

Friday night 8pm - nearly there, just the suspension setup to do - toe-in, camber, and castor.

[Stratos]

Saturday Morning - 9:30am Abingdon Sprint

Special thanks to Keith Waite - Amazing build quality in such a short time.

[chris.richard]

Dave, where did you source the adhesive numberplate?

[Stratos]

Dave, where did you source the adhesive numberplate?

It came with the car when I bought it 4+years ago. I don't know where to buy them now, but Caravan suppliers used to do them.

My Allora also has an adhesive number plate, but again that was on the car when I bought it.

[rutthenut]

I'm sure you can get these [unofficially, at least] from various sources on the Internet, as well as at car shows (NEC Classic Car Show, for instance) and advertisers in Exchange + Mart, etc.

I'd also heard that the stupid rules for number plate purchases (inside leg measurement, bloody group, driving licence, V5 and so on) may only apply in England and Wales - meaning normal purchases might be possible from Scottish suppliers. Any truth in that rumour?

[guy mayers]

Having made a new loom for the dash and had half the loom out/dismantled for the respray tonight was the fingernail biting session - would it all work when it went back together?
Of couse not! The front right indicators came on with the sidelights, the wiper motor wouldn't play and no lights in the right pod at all.
Swapping the supply feeds in a connector block brought the indicators back, fitting the wires in the light connector had main and dip working but no side light on the right side which was soon trace to some transposed wires in the same connector block. Plugging the wiper motor into the loom cured that one but the loom is tight so a potential problem there. I hope a tiewrap will sort that out!
Remaining problems are the lack of reversing lights and a faulty ignition switch plus a battery with insufficient power to fire the engine. Hopefully nothing that another couple of hours and an night on the charger won't cure. I think the only other little gremlin is the lack of a warning light for the indicators but that is probably a bulb failure that I'll look into when I get the gauge out at the weekend.
Good progress I think!
Guy

[Stratos]

If you are desperate for a stick-on number plate, then a bit of white vinyl, some black numbers and letters, and some black pin-striping should sort you out.

[Swamprat33]

I am pleased to hear that you are nearly there Guy.
By the way, we did all miss you at Abingdon.
Hope to see you soon.
Tim

[mudhut]

E-types have always had the stick on type and this seems to seem to be accepted for MoT without problem. Maybe look at E-type forums to find out where they get them from. Then hope you get an MoT tester with a bit of common sense or go to a tester that does a lot of classics.

[Stratos]

Is the number plate part of the MOT check? I have MOTs for my Allora from 3 different MOT stations, and it had a stick-on numberplate for all of them.

With this new 45minute MOT, maybe they get bored and start looking for new things to look at.

[Chris J]

I've got a big roll of reflective vinyl...

...and a scalpul

[mudhut]

My understanding is that the number plate face should be vertical and that it is part of the MoT. May be wrong on this of course. An E-type would look silly with a plate bolted on "legally".

[Swamprat33]

Hi Peter, how are you getting on with your engine now?
Cheers
Tim

[mudhut]

Bit slow at the moment Tim. Going to pull the block out (head already off) do leak test, burette chamber volumes, test head flatness this weekend, weather permitting. Will be able to get into and clean all the hard to reach places in the engine bay.

[CorseChris]

Some negative progress for me this week. Pulled the engine/box at the weekend, stripped it all down and took the roundy roundy & upy downy bits to get them balanced. Not too thrilled at turning my very recently completed car back into a kit but the engine vibration was driving me nuts.....still, should get the balanced bits back Friday morning so it'll be back together by the end of the weekend if all goes as it should. Still don't understand why it was so bad but hopefully I'll find out which part was guilty when I pick up the bits.

I'm taking the opportunity to do the Guy Croft in-head thermostat mod, add a heater bypass loop and fit an adjustable rad fan thermoswitch. Didn't much care for how warm it ran.

[Sando]

I'm taking the opportunity to do the Guy Croft in-head thermostat mod, add a heater bypass loop and fit an adjustable rad fan thermoswitch. Didn't much care for how warm it ran.

Hi Chris
I did the in head thermostat mod it was relatively easy. just a bit of filing of the inside of the flange. I found a Stat at halfords that fitted. Can't remember what it was off, but I recall it being one of the cheapest ones they did....so start at that end of the shelf!...... :)
Hope it all goes well.
R

[CorseChris]

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the tip. Cheapest part eh? Not like me at all.......

[CorseChris]

Well, it's all back together. The engine balance report showed some problems so I was optimistic...until I fired it up again yesterday. It's better, but it still shakes badly at idle and buzzes away when driving. I'm now totally stumped. Anyone got any ideas? Looks like the V6 will be along sooner than anticipated.....

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[chris.richard]

Must be mountings / steady bar?
Clutch??

[CorseChris]

I tried getting some softer mounts a few weeks back. They weren't a lot softer so I even cut a bit of one away at the side. The steady bar has a pretty soft voided bush at one end so I don't think that's a problem.

Could be the main engine mounts still I suppose. The crank-pulley end mount is actually fairly soft, but it isn't important here I don't think - it's the two main gearbox mounts that are transmitting the energy into the car. Maybe I'll get brutal with the hacksaw on one and give it another go. Got nothing to lose.

Really p155ing me off though. I keep wondering if I have got the cam timing wrong or something like that. It seems to want to run lots of static advance to get it even vaguely smooth at idle so this might be a possibility. At the moment, the belt is on with crank and both cams absolutely spot-on...this is slightly worrying as every other TC I have done always seemed to end up with a slight error on the timing marks.

[Sando]

Hi Chris
Sounds strange if its not missing at all. Here's a few ideas from Sando's previous' :)
Did you have the head off or just take everything out from the bottom? Have you done a compression/leak down test?
Might be worth checking you havn't got a sticking / bent valve or a Shim a bit tight? I had an engine that shook badly on a rolling road because of a tight tappet once. couldn't tell when driving it, but soon got some attention when you see it with the bonnet up at 60mph!! Another had too tight a piston valve clearance and just touched the valve first time it was revved and bent the eng of the valve enough to make it run rough.

I'm sure they are, but might be worth checking the 'balance' of the Carbs again too.

How worn is the distributer? could that be dancing about on the drive? spark crossover perhaps? by using a stobe light you might be to see where the firing is taking place on each plug one at a time if you have it all marked up.

Mt twink also isn't the smoothest engine I've built, it tends to have a frequency it buzzes the rear bodywork most at, below 2k revs, but this has got less noticable after things have bedded in and goes when everything is warm. I made my own steady bar using some H/D Escort track control arm rubbers I had 'in stock' so they are very stiff, I just put it down th that.

Has the clutch been balanced as well as the flywheel?

Anyway its my birthday and I can feel another Whiskey coming on, so I leave you in peace.
hope you sort it, I'm still having fun in mine even though I'd like another 100 hp!
cheers
Rob, hic!

[Swamprat33]

Happy birthday Rob ;) :D :p :D :cool:

[CorseChris]

Thanks for the ideas Rob...and happy birthday!

In no particular order...clutch cover was balanced (and was the most out of balance component), crank, flywheel & crank pulley were balanced. Pistons were matched, rods were matched end-end & overall.

Head was stripped. Valves/guides all good. Lapped in for good seal. Confess I've not done a compression check though - had this idea on the Lancisti forum too so will definitely do it. Pretty basic thing to start with really. Dizzy feels pretty good, although this isn't a particularly scientific assessment! Timing did seem stable when I put a strobe on to set the static advance. Previously I just set it by ear - advance until it peaked then retard about 5 degrees. It tended to pink a bit at this so I backed it off another few. I suspect it is now a lot more retarded than it was.

Single carb so no balance issues there.

HT leads & plugs are new, although no reason why I shouldn't swap these out to eliminate them. Plugs looked pretty good when I stripped the motor last week.

I'll re-check the tappet gaps and make sure none are tight.

[Sando]

Thanks Chris
I'm sure you'll sort it

[CorseChris]

Thanks for the confidence Rob. Suspect it is mis-placed though...


...but I think I might be onto something. I'm beginning to think that the engine is actually fine and as good as it's going to get. The problem may well be the engine mounts. I have a nasty feeling the the 'bobbin' type mounts I am using are not being operated in the correct way. They are basically in compression in the current configuration and all the other installations I can find that use them have them more in shear than compression. I might well be wrong, but it occurs to me that they will be more compliant in shear. I'm going to try using some different mounts or maybe re-orient these by making some new brackets. Thinking about it, I might buy a pair of Monte Carlo mounting rubbers and try those.

More anon.....

[guy mayers]

Time for another small update I guess! After a lot of hassle the steering column went back in tonight with all the bracketry associated with the under dash handbrake assemby. Thanks to a very patient Geoff Turtons' welding it appears that the second evolution of the assembly actually gives some grip on the discs without too much strain pulling the lever on. It might even be enough to get through the MOT if they accept the travel I have on the lever, but I might do something about that tomorrow. Basically the mechanism remains unchanged from the horseshoe backwards but the original lever is now under the steering column. It is attached to the pull rod using a spare clutch cable and works smoothly enough. If I decide I want a more effective handbrake there is the option of running a bowden cable from the lever to the balance bar as well.
I should collect the carpets from the trimmers tomorrow and the dash can go in permanently this weekend. So long as all the electrics work still it's time for the screen to be put back in and all that's left will be the door hanging, decisions on which mirrors to use, seats and tattoos. I think there is light at the end of the tunnel at last....
Guy

[CorseChris]

...well my update isn't so exciting...but at least the vibration is now at a bearable level. I got a couple of mounts from these people http://www.novibration.co.uk/ and they did the trick. If the idle drops very low it's still a bit lumpy, but otherwise, it's sorted.

Seems I was trying to fix something that wasn't broken again......

[David May]

I was looking to do the same to mine. Which mounts did you use in the end - the catalogue show so many types?

[guy mayers]

Well the dash went in over the weekend and the last job was checking the electrics still worked... needless to say there were a couple of little gremlins lurking in there but they have all been sorted this evening. The carpets have been collected but I can't recommend them, a couple of pieces will have to be redone and I'm not going to ask them to do it again! Fortunately I think I have a few spare pieces to have a go with myself! The trimmed centre tunnel went back this evening and the bulkhead carpet was laid in place before I decided to call it a night. Tomorrow should see the remaining carpeting in place which leaves the doors and screen and an MOT test as the next hurdles for the weekend after next. Looking promising for a Harrogate debut.
Guy

[CorseChris]

I was looking to do the same to mine. Which mounts did you use in the end - the catalogue show so many types?

Hi David,

I used the 786012 on this page... http://www.novibration.co.uk/acatalog/MEGI_BEARINGS.html

A simple bolt-in replacement for the almost solid bobbin types I had before.


Guy,

Sounds like it's almost there!!! Can't wait to see it.

[guy mayers]

Car passed its MOT test this morning. Just a couple of minor jobs left and it'll be at Harrogate in a couple of weeks!
Guy

[BAS]

Good to hear that your car is back on the road. Are you going to put some photos on the site for those of us that can't get to Harrogate?

[chris.richard]

i think I must be progressing. This week I've been cutting carpets and mats (Susit, I know it's a rally car, but there are certainn standards :p ). I've also started painting various ancillaries such as headlamp pod and bits of trim, and I've sourced some decals.
I found a nest of tinworms in my headlamp pods, so new lamps/mountings are on the way. More DR! :(
The car is all stripped down ready to be carted off to the paint shop, although I've a leak from the clutch reservoir or tubing to fix, and the brakes and clutch function are still under suspicion. Next jobs I think are to flock the dashboard and install some seats. I commisioned all the electrics last week. No smoke came out, and apart from a duff relay in the headlamp raising mechanism, everything functions. Unaccustomed success! :)
It's too good, I must be missing something! ;)

[BAS]

Chris

Good hear you are progressing well, where are you getting your headlamp mounts from as I need a set!

[chris.richard]

I'm getting these from Holden -
http://www.holden.co.uk/product_display.asp?product_code=010.047

X19 files (see suppliers) also supply the Fiat mounts, shotblasted & painted, including lamps.

[BAS]

Chris

You may need to cut the back off the nest to fit in the Strat lamp pod, or get the open back variety.

[chris.richard]

Yes, I don't see the black plastic dish as performing a useful function in our setup.

[CorseChris]

Maybe we need a new thread...ongoing improvements.

Anyhoo....changed the pinion in the steering rack on Saturday. Went from 9 tooth to 8 tooth (11%). Darn near perfect now I think..quick enough for a sharp response, slow enough not to be twitchy. Not a hugely useful parameter, but it's just under 2 turns lock to lock now. Was about 1 3/4.

Shame about the engine though - couldn't even escape from a bloody BMW Mini at the lights. :o Had to resort to high-speed cornering to get away. I hope it was one of the go-faster ones though (lots of bling and twin tailpipes). I need that V6!!

[Chris J]

Chris

I'm afraid the performance level of 'ordinary' cars has moved on a bit in the last 30 years.

I remember feeling a bit miffed when a Mondeo left me behind with every gear change away from a roundabout on the A46.

All cars are quick these days.

'Good job there's much more to a Stratos than ultimate speed?

[chris.richard]

I'm getting these from Holden -
http://www.holden.co.uk/product_display.asp?product_code=010.047


Bollox! They're too big to fit in the pods. :mad:

[guy mayers]

Chris try Fiat X19 assemblies the same as the headlights...
Guy