Prototipo

[Chris J]

What I really wanted was one with group 4 arches...

[strat6v]

Nice Chris, You have a truly unique replica.

I'll be wanting that passenger ride too :)

[SUSIT]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Chris J have you obtained a second Strat?


Stephen

[Chris J]

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Chris J have you obtained a second Strat?


Stephen

The Honda one has already gone Stephen. I've cheated (again).
Strictly speaking, this orange one is the fourth.

[SUSIT]

The Honda one has already gone Stephen. I've cheated (again).
Strictly speaking, this orange one is the fourth.


Dont stop there Chris tell us more, where did it come from what spec is it etc :D

I have gone over to the dark side, got a tasty 944 S2 sitting in the drive. Having done 400 miles of first class highlands A roads yesterday I can honestly say its the best handling car I have ever driven, stunning is the only word I can use, just a shame it dont look and sound like a Stratos :D

More pic's of yours would be nice

cheers

[Chris J]

Stephen,

944s are great cars, as are all the 924 family. The build quality is amazing, and it was back when they were announced. The build quality and some of the detailing (but not the engineering/controls etc) of Ferraris from the same era was a bit of a joke in comparison. The worst thing about front engined Porsches is that, if anything, they were too good, and all the secondhand ones available have done massive mileages now? Italian cars always seem to tick more boxes in the end somehow? It's partly the heart ruling the head?

The orange car is one that Chris Smith built and looked after for one of his customers. A few of us had a look at it after the SEC Christmas lunch last December, and that's when Chris said it was for sale. There's some photos of it on the gallery taken by Ian Hassall just before it was finished in late 2003:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=69

[Bernard]

Nice one CJ
Where did the Honda one go ??
Good luck with this one........... the Prototipo actually spent some time in my garage whilst Chris didn't have enough room in his !
Will you be bringing it down to Abingdon ??
Cheers
Bernard

[Chris J]

Nice Chris, You have a truly unique replica.

I'll be wanting that passenger ride too :)

There's one done like this in Japan, but I don't think there's another in this country? It should be a few inches wider really, and made of alluminium?

I've got a some teething problems to attend to, but yes, the passenger seat's got your name on it John. David Jowsey has been a big help with getting the car back home and providing a gasket to cure a cam cover leak. That was the first job. There's a couple of jobs to do with the clutch and throttle, but all in all it's a nicely put together thing.

Bernard, I think Prototype is the word really, I'm just trying to be clever...
I hadn't planned to go to Abingdon, Silverstone is a cert. though.

The Honda one went to Italy, of all places!

[Chris J]

the Prototipo actually spent some time in my garage whilst Chris didn't have enough room in his !Bernard

I see, Chris did say it was taking up his garage space, a lot.

[tryphon]

FYI the prototypes (3 cars) had aluminium bodywork, dual windshield wipers, fully functional windows (i.e. not hinged), one filler cap located just before the rear body work's louvers on the right, a completely different interior (dashboard, instruments, seats, door cards are all different), completely different chassis, dual wishbone rear suspension, among other minor differences. I think one survives and is under Hrabalek ownership.
Nice to see this one though.

[chris.richard]

Tryphon, do you know why they radically changed the chassis after the prototypes?

[Chris J]

Tryphon,

I didn't realise there were three of them.

Most photos do show the twin wiper set up. I think the inspiration for this car came from the photo on page 81 of the Trow book of the Prototype at the 1972 show, and that car only has one wiper arm fitted.

I think the huge single filler cap was a detail too far for the car that I've got? That, and a few other things, rear lamps etc.

Most of the 'fanfare' does seem to be from the same show a year earlier (1971).

I'd like to see photographic evidence of a Beta engine fitted to a Prototype.

[tryphon]

Tryphon, do you know why they radically changed the chassis after the prototypes?

Industrialization + lessons learned from the rear suspension issues.

FYI the first production chassis (1001-1009) are also a bit different from the rest of the production cars.

[tryphon]

I'd like to see photographic evidence of a Beta engine fitted to a Prototype.

You're not the only one.... ;)

[Sando]

Glad it all worked out in the end Chris, thats a very nicely built car.
Hope you get it sorted for Abingdon. Weather is looking good so far.

Rob

[Bob]

Congrats on your purchase Chris. I went to view the car before I eventually settled on Paul Cleggs old car. It's a very tidy and nicely done example, enjoy!.

[Chris J]

Thanks Rob, and Bob.

Bob,

I didn't realise it was for sale that long ago?!
Yes the fit and finish on the orange one is really nice, but I can see why you'd go for the yellow one, with its V6 and all?

[andysell]

Chris ,

The car looks fantastic in the pictures, I would love to get a proper look at it,
I will be going to Abingdon on Saturday, maybe see you there ?


Andy

[Chris J]

I will be going to Abingdon on Saturday, maybe see you there ?
Andy

I won't make it to Abingdon Andy. I'll be at the Silverstone Classic though.

[Chris J]

'Just looking at the Stratos Prototype article in this month's Classic and Sportscar.

It says the car displayed at the 1972 Turin Show was the one with a single wiper arm and a 4 cylinder twin cam engine. This car was the second Prototype built and not the first 1971 twin wiper car which is featured in this month's Classic and Sportscar article (October 2007) and lots of other magazines and books.

I'm guessing the second Prototype was scrapped?

Also in this month's C and S:
Photo of Guy's Hawk on Hanger Straight Page 10 (Retro run) and
a photo of Mick's Corse on page 24 (Donor Card Grand Turismo run).
H&H ex Don Pither Stratos auction result and photo on page 23.

[Patriq Backlund]

Chris !

Trying to catch up here. You've got a car that's more like this prototype?
I must admit it's new to me too.

Funny thing is this seems very much like what I have in mind for my build.

Is there more images - either of the original or yours ? (It might be that I have already seen some of your car amongst the member albums. But I'd be glad if you could indicate with a link if you have any images in your album).

Regards,
/Patriq

[Chris J]

Patriq

Yes Patriq, that's the car I have now at the beginning of this thread (photo from above). It's a 1990 Transformer/Hawk HF2000 with a 155 bhp Guy Croft Beta engine.

I was rebuilding a Transformer Honda V6 engined ex rally car, but this Prototype replica came up for sale. The idea to make it in the style of the Prototype is very much down to the first owner who had the car built mostly by Chris Smith. That is the same car you have seen in this photo gallery section. The photos are taken in Chris's workshop when it was first built.

I understand that there is another Hawk in this Prototype style in Japan?

That is the only photo I have of it to date.

[SUSIT]

Good photo here

http://www.stratclub.com/gallery/2007/silverstone/pict0207.jpg

[Chris J]

Thanks Stephen. I didn't realise there was gallery on there?

I'm not keeping those 4x98mm 8x15 and 9x15 Compomotive split rim wheels in the long run.

[SUSIT]

Thanks Stephen. I didn't realise there was gallery on there?

I'm not keeping those 4x98mm 8x15 and 9x15 Compomotive split rim wheels in the long run.


No problem Chris but its actually Tim that you need to thank as he has been the person sorting out the Stratclub site.
Done a good job as well :)
Are you going to Chatsworth? Trying to decide if I wil come down or not :confused:
Chris R have you plans to go??


Cheers
Stephen

[Chris J]

Are you going to Chatsworth?
Stephen

Ooohh yeh!, both days.

Yes I know it was Tim that sorted the club website.

[Swamprat33]

hi all, Not normally one to blow me own trumpet, but, I have been pretty busy over the last week or so updating the old Stratclub site.

It is now pretty much up to date with all old or out of date material replaced.
Also added a gallery, which so far contains around 60 images from Silverstone, Elvesham Heath, Wales and London to Brighton events from 2007. Will soon be adding some 2006 events to the gallery.

Sorry to steal the thread.

Thanks for the kind words Stephen :D

More updates comeing to a new look website soon.....

[pimms]

I understand that there is another Hawk in this Prototype style in Japan?.

I saw one on a video i bought, its all Japanese but it shows this prototype like Stratos. Pictures are bad because i took them from tv :o

I also found 2 other pictures of prototypes, the White one is from 1971 i believe and has the 4 cilinder engine, :confused:
The red one is the one from the Hrabi collection.

[Steve Poole]

Nice pictures, is that John H, Sando & Chris Smith in the days of hair and wide lapels :D :p

Good to know they still admire the cars in the same way :p

Steve

[tryphon]

Close: Munari, Ballestrieri, Barbasio

[Chris J]

the White one is from 1971 i believe and has the 4 cilinder engine, :confused:
The red one is the one from the Hrabi collection.

As I understand it, Pim, the white one (actually, alloy 206 engine) and the red Hrabi collection car are one and the same. It doesn't have the round holes in the rear any longer.

Notice how it can be fitted with wide rear rims that still fit inside the body without wide wheel arch extensions. I think this proves that the body to track ratio is quite a bit wider than the production car? The rear wheels fitted to the car as it is today are at least 10" if not wider? The narrower rims fitted in the photo when the car was white are quite within the bodywork compared to the rear of a Stradale production model?

The twin wiper Prototype is reported to be alloy, but there is photographic evidence that a GRP front end was produced with the 12 cooling slats - the one fitted to the front of the first tub on the black and white photo of the production line at Bertone.

[tryphon]

...
Notice how it can be fitted with wide rear rims that still fit inside the body without wide wheel arch extensions. I think this proves that the body to track ratio is quite a bit wider than the production car?

It proves that the car is fitted with dual wishbone rear suspension as opposed to the production McPherson struts.

[hrabi]

1240 'A' (white), 'B' (flourescent red) and 'C' (flourescent red/ Marlboro livery) are all one and the same car! I was told the chassis '1240' had three engine in its lifetime: Fulvia, Beta and 206 Aluminium. It now has the 206 engine. Best, Hrabi.

[hrabi]

Next to the 1240 Prototype, Lancia also made '3-Pre Production Cars'. They all had side-windows that lowered horizontally (non-tilt). These cars had a front clamshell in the style of the prototype. One of them was painted 'Flourescent Red' also, and even had a rear-clamshell of the prototype (with the X-Lights). However, all these '3-Pre Production Cars' had fibreglas Clamshells and already a (similar to production) McPherson Suspension. Also, I believe there is one '1240 Replica' in Japan, based on a Hawk-Kit, with details including the 'X-Lights', I imagine this is the car in the picture posted earlier (white with Japanese Numberplates). Best, Hrabi.

[Swamprat33]

Hi Mr Hrabi, pleased to have you on our forum.

Cheers

Tim

[Chris J]

One of them was painted 'Flourescent Red' also, and even had a rear-clamshell of the prototype (with the X-Lights).

Hello Hrabi,

Was this the single wiper car shown at the 1972 Turin show (the year after the debut), or was it the 1240 shown again with slightly different detailing? (white 'LANCIA - ITALIA' lettering, normal white 'HF' sticker on the side)

See photo on page 81 of the Nigel Trow book.

[Steve Poole]

Hello Christian, it is Christiam Hrabi isn't it? Nice to hear from you :) . Any news on the latest Stratos incarnation - everything going to plan?

Steve

[hrabi]

Hello Hrabi,

Was this the single wiper car shown at the 1972 Turin show (the year after the debut), or was it the 1240 shown again with slightly different detailing? (white 'LANCIA - ITALIA' lettering, normal white 'HF' sticker on the side)

See photo on page 81 of the Nigel Trow book.

1240 always had two wipers. The car shown at the 1972 Turin show was (to my knowledge) one of the '3 pre-production cars' that featured the same front and rear clamshell as the 1240 (however in fiberglas), McPherson suspension and a single wiper arm. It had the same wheels/rims as 1240 though, which were Gandini's own design. So at least 4 of these rims were made. I was told that this 1972 Turin show car along with the other two cars (at least one of which was used for early rallying) were later destroyed by the factory. Interestingly these '3 pre-production cars' had a different scocca (frame) to both 1240 as well as the roadcars. Best, Hrabi. PS: I was recently told by Nicola Materazzi that 1240 was repainted white shortly after its debut in fluourescent red colour (I always used to think that white came before red, but I was wrong) and then later re-painted flourescent red, a second time, after an accident. At this point air-exit holes were added to the top- and rear of the rear clamshell. There is an old Autosprint magazine (with 1240) on the cover that features the car in this paintjob. I have a few images of the restoration of 1240 which I will try to add to this forum thread.

[chris.richard]

Are those sectored rear lights functional or stuck on?

[hrabi]

Are those sectored rear lights functional or stuck on?

Fully functional. 1240 was fully developed- every switch and every button works...

[strat6v]

Mr H, you have a PM!!

[chris.richard]

Anybody up for replicating this one? It'd be unique! :)

[Swamprat33]

well volunteered Chris :D

[mudhut]

Anybody up for replicating this one? It'd be unique! :)

Maybe! I've got the right credentials: car with round arches and I'd rather not have the spoiler or aerofoil. What colours are on this car and what interior does it have?

[chris.richard]

No idea, I've only seen this grayscale photo!
Tryphon?

[Patriq Backlund]

No idea, I've only seen this grayscale photo!
Tryphon?
It looks white - with green and red stripes on it, doesn't it ?

[Bob]

It's red and white Marlboro livery I believe.

Bob.

[Swamprat33]

I also interpreted the photo as white/red Marlboro, but we could all be wrong.

Hmmm, thinking a little more, I am sure I've seen a colour piccy of the car.

Will hunt tonight.

Tim

[Patriq Backlund]

Yes, could be. I interpereted the lower of the stripes as faintly lighter, and as green.

[tryphon]

This is the Marlboro livered chassis 1002 in 1972. Normal (i.e. not hinged) windows, dual wishbone rear suspension. Must be Costa del Sol but I'm unsure.

[chris.richard]

The picture is from the Trow book- it captions it a "pre-production prototype" in Turin. 1002 is a production car number isn't it? Is this another of Trow's inaccuracies?

[pimms]

Next to the 1240 Prototype, Lancia also made '3-Pre Production Cars'. They all had side-windows that lowered horizontally (non-tilt). .

I've never seen a picture of these windows but here i found one in an old Italian Magazine.

[tryphon]

I think that's good old 1512 in 1974, wonder where she might be now.

[guy mayers]

Anybody up for replicating this one? It'd be unique! :)

There are more pictures of the car on pages 64 & 65 of the Trow book. The front panel looks unique to me as well, the louvre opening is an open hole, just a grille over it, there are no X19 overcentre catches, different front lights, no bonnet pins, ventilation intakes where the pins would go. Side windows dropping in channels and the front arches look a lot more faired in than what we are used to! Looks to have a stradale binnacle though.

I guess it's a big job to recreate all those details!

[Chris J]

I think that's good old 1512 in 1974, wonder where she might be now.

1002 (in the black and white photo earlier in this thread) must be one of the three pre-production cars that no longer exist.
Is this 1512 car (in the colour photo) one of the early production cars?
It wouldn't appear to be a production car with that type of side window.

[Chris J]

I was told that this 1972 Turin show car along with the other two cars (at least one of which was used for early rallying) were later destroyed by the factory.

It's a real shame when that happens. How precious would those cars be now?

[tryphon]

The picture above was taken prior to homologation in Gr4. The front is more or less standard Gr5 (spoiler, wider arches). The car uses the Group5 dash (using Stradale container).
Fiberglass body.

Picture from another angle:

[Chris J]

Tryphon

What is the chassis number of the very first production car?, and is this (the car in your photo) it?

[Chris J]

I'd rather not have the spoiler or aerofoil.

Peter, if you really like this Prototype look, we could just swap cars?!

[tryphon]

Tryphon

What is the chassis number of the very first production car?, and is this (the car in your photo) it?

1st production chassis is 1001 and no this is not it. Chassis go 1001-1009 then 1509-1993.

[Chris J]

So you're saying that 1002 is a production car?, not a pre-production car?

If the above is true, then both pre-production AND some production cars had this pre pivot type of side window?

[tryphon]

Chassis 1001-1009 bare some, minor, differences to the rest of the production run.
These go diminishing from 1001 to 1009. I had a very close look to 1005 and the differences are so small that only a trained eye can spot but still existing.
Doors and window mechanisms are not part of the chassis and can be changed.
Lancia dropped the sliding windows to bring down costs.

[Chris J]

1st production chassis is 1001 and no this is not it. Chassis go 1001-1009 then 1509-1993.

Ok, I've got it now, thanks:
1240 Prototype
3 x pre production cars (different chassis but with f.glass panels)
9 early production cars
484(?) production cars?

How many of 1001 to 1009 still exist? (besides the 1005 car)?

[tryphon]

The trouble is that chassis 1001-1009 exist in many examples each.
At least 2 1005 exist one in Italy and one in Germany. The same applies for most others among the 9.
All (real and less real) still exist as far as I know.

[hrabi]

Chassis 1001-1009 bare some, minor, differences to the rest of the production run.
These go diminishing from 1001 to 1009. I had a very close look to 1005 and the differences are so small that only a trained eye can spot but still existing.
Doors and window mechanisms are not part of the chassis and can be changed.
Lancia dropped the sliding windows to bring down costs.

The Group V Silhouette (Turbo) has 'drop down' windows. As described in an earlier post these slide down vertically- similar mechanism to the production cars and different to 1240 (which actually has window-winders). So, not convinced that Lancia dropped the sliding windows to bring down costs as the system is nearly identical...just vertical mechanism instead of curved one for window-tilt...

[hrabi]

The picture above was taken prior to homologation in Gr4. The front is more or less standard Gr5 (spoiler, wider arches). The car uses the Group5 dash (using Stradale container).
Fiberglass body.

Picture from another angle:

This car also has wider than normal rear wheels (like Thomas Poppers LWB Turbo)...

Group V Silhouette has unique dash (not Stradale container!) not sure that Facettis Group V cars used Stradale dash either. Also, remember seing the interior of this car and it had a dash with a similar container to the Stradale one, but more square...

[Chris J]

Fully functional. 1240 was fully developed- every switch and every button works...

hrabi,
What happened to the interior of 1240 that featured the red circles on the sides of the seats and the tube shaped dashboard guage binnacles? (as seen in the colour photo on page 8 of the Piero Casucci Lancia Stratos book) The car also looks to have a Halda fitted and the gearstick is longer than it is now.

There is also a photo of the car from above with both front and rear clamshells open. In this photo (and some others) the 1240 car has the same width of wheel both front and rear, but is currently fitted with wider rear wheels on the rear only. There must have been at least 4 Gandini wheels of the narrower width and two of a wider rim width manufactured?

[Chris J]

Chassis go 1001-1009 then 1509-1993.

I notice that on both of the black and white photographs of the Bertone production line (the ones with the first tub fitted with pre-production front and rear sections in the Trow book) you can count only 9 shells/tubs. You'd assume that these tubs are chassis numbers 1001 - 1009, because a. there are only 9 visible and b. the front and rear sections with louvres have not been manufactured yet.

[tryphon]

I notice that on both of the black and white photographs of the Bertone production line (the ones with the first tub fitted with pre-production front and rear sections in the Trow book) you can count only 9 shells/tubs. You'd assume that these tubs are chassis numbers 1001 - 1009, because a. there are only 9 visible and b. the front and rear sections with louvres have not been manufactured yet.

That's a bit too far stretched. I think they only cut the only cut the front section's openings to fit the louvers. I do not think the picture you are referring to shows 1001-1009.

[tryphon]

The Group V Silhouette (Turbo) has 'drop down' windows. As described in an earlier post these slide down vertically- similar mechanism to the production cars and different to 1240 (which actually has window-winders). So, not convinced that Lancia dropped the sliding windows to bring down costs as the system is nearly identical...just vertical mechanism instead of curved one for window-tilt...

I hardly think the silhouette, or other factory cars, can be used as a basis to judge where cost cutting measures where taken.
It takes a worker 3 times as much time to fit "normal" window mechanisms in the door as compared to the final solution, excluding the cost of additional parts.
The solution adopted on the production Stratos has cost-cutting written all over it.

[Chris J]

I do not think the picture you are referring to shows 1001-1009.

Any reason why not?

[tryphon]

This car also has wider than normal rear wheels (like Thomas Poppers LWB Turbo)...

Group V Silhouette has unique dash (not Stradale container!) not sure that Facettis Group V cars used Stradale dash either. Also, remember seing the interior of this car and it had a dash with a similar container to the Stradale one, but more square...

Thomas' LWB has 15"x15" rear wheels and normal Gr.4 dash.
Does the Silhouette use dash 82324046 as per homologation sheet?
I think Facceti cars used the dash above.
Early Gr4 (1524 for instance in Montecarlo 1975) and some customer cars used the Stradale container with Gr4 instrumentation.

[tryphon]

Any reason why not?

I don't think Bertone had a chain set up prior to hitting real production. I therefore think this picture depicts the normal production chain and not the initial run.

[Chris J]

I don't think Bertone had a chain set up prior to hitting real production. I therefore think this picture depicts the normal production chain and not the initial run.

I wonder? We can only make an informed guess? We need to ask someone who was involved, with a good memory.

It's difficult to find a 100% accurate oracle? I notice that one or two of the photo captions are wrong in the Trow book, and this is one of the better books!?

[pimms]

This car also has wider than normal rear wheels (like Thomas Poppers LWB Turbo)...

Group V Silhouette has unique dash (not Stradale container!) not sure that Facettis Group V cars used Stradale dash either. Also, remember seing the interior of this car and it had a dash with a similar container to the Stradale one, but more square...

Here is a picture of the Fabbri car, don't know if its a silhouette car but it has a unique dash. also a picture of an early Gr 4 dash with Gr 4 instruments and switches.

[hrabi]

hrabi,
What happened to the interior of 1240 that featured the red circles on the sides of the seats and the tube shaped dashboard guage binnacles? (as seen in the colour photo on page 8 of the Piero Casucci Lancia Stratos book) The car also looks to have a Halda fitted and the gearstick is longer than it is now.

There is also a photo of the car from above with both front and rear clamshells open. In this photo (and some others) the 1240 car has the same width of wheel both front and rear, but is currently fitted with wider rear wheels on the rear only. There must have been at least 4 Gandini wheels of the narrower width and two of a wider rim width manufactured?

I believe the interior with the 'red circles on the sides of the seats and the tube shaped dashboard guage binnacles' are from the flourescent red car with the SINGLE windscreen wiper (i.e. one of the pre-production cars)...but I could be wrong...

...not sure about the wheels. 1240 now has '205/55 VR 14' in the front and '225/55VR14' in the back. The tires are still from the 70s...

[hrabi]

I hardly think the silhouette, or other factory cars, can be used as a basis to judge where cost cutting measures where taken.
It takes a worker 3 times as much time to fit "normal" window mechanisms in the door as compared to the final solution, excluding the cost of additional parts.
The solution adopted on the production Stratos has cost-cutting written all over it.

Agreed. But I was under the impression that all 'vertical-drop' windows had the same sliding mechanism as the final production car and not 'normal' window mechanisms as in 1240. All I am saying is, it cannot make too much of a price difference to have the windows sliding vertical or sliding diagonal. The difference in manufacturing and production is the 'normal' window mechanisms- which only 1240 has. The Silhouette has the same system as the final production cars, but with the same 'visual effect' as 1240.

[hrabi]

Thomas' LWB has 15"x15" rear wheels and normal Gr.4 dash.
Does the Silhouette use dash 82324046 as per homologation sheet?
I think Facceti cars used the dash above.
Early Gr4 (1524 for instance in Montecarlo 1975) and some customer cars used the Stradale container with Gr4 instrumentation.

Early Group IV cars did use the Stradale container with Group IV mechanical Instruments (like No.14 and GA's (ex-Thomas) remake).

Faccetti had individual dash design- as seen on his yellow 'Baby Silhouette' hillclimb car and the Fabbri car!

I do not know how the '82324046' dash looks like, but Silhouette dash is wider/ larger than Stradale dash. Its neiter Stradale, nor Group IV nor Faccetti dash. I have a few images, but difficulties with uploading. Maybe I can send them via e-mail to one of the forum users and he/she can upload them under their account?

Also, the 15'' x 15'' where not unique to Thomas LWB- I know of at least another Group V car that used them.

[strat6v]

Christian,

The gallery is out of action at the moment but you can post pics direct into the thread if they are resized to under 500kb i think. If you would rather mail them to myself, then please do so and i will resize them and post them up for you.

John.

[tryphon]

Here's 8234046 on the right of the FIA documents.

[hrabi]

Here's 8234046 on the right of the FIA documents.

Neither of the two is Silhouette. Left is Group IV and right looks like dash I have seen in several Faccetti Group V cars.

Silhouette Dash is different.

I have seen a 'blueprint' at Thomas' with Silhouette Dash exact technical drawing. Luigi used it for Giorgio Schoen's replica Silhouette. Luigi made a pretty good replica (minus mechanicals), but optically its an exact copy.

Schoen bought spareparts from the Silhouette that burnt in Zeltweg, so he had two original clamshells and the original rims...which helped!

[hrabi]

Here's 8234046 on the right of the FIA documents.

Can't figure out how to attach images...will send them to John via e-mail- hopefully he can post them on my behalf. Thanks John. Regards, Hrabi.

[tryphon]

Neither of the two is Silhouette. Left is Group IV and right looks like dash I have seen in several Faccetti Group V cars.

Silhouette Dash is different.

I have seen a 'blueprint' at Thomas' with Silhouette Dash exact technical drawing. Luigi used it for Giorgio Schoen's replica Silhouette. Luigi made a pretty good replica (minus mechanicals), but optically its an exact copy.

Schoen bought spareparts from the Silhouette that burnt in Zeltweg, so he had two original clamshells and the original rims...which helped!

This was what I said, Facceti used the dash as per homologation sheet on the right.

Your Silhouette was at Autosport last time I was there but didn't have a close look so I don't know how the dash looks. I have pictures of the rest of the car though and your father told me the funny story of its purchase.

In order to post pictures it's quite simple:
1. Use an image editor to resize length to 500pixels while maintaining the aspect ratio
2. Save it somewhere on your computer being careful not to replace the original
3. In your post click the "Manage attachments" button and select the picture you just saved above
4. Click upload then close and you're done

[chris.richard]

1. Use an image editor to resize length to 500pixels while maintaining the aspect ratio


500 pixels wide, they can be any height. ;)

[strat6v]

Following pics supplied by Hrabi.

[strat6v]

More pictures

[strat6v]

I'll get the hang of it eventually!!

Hrabi and Tryphon, many thanks for the history lesson. More please :cool:

[Chris J]

I believe the interior with the 'red circles on the sides of the seats and the tube shaped dashboard guage binnacles' are from the flourescent red car with the SINGLE windscreen wiper (i.e. one of the pre-production cars)...but I could be wrong..

That would make sense. It's a shame that car has gone for good?

I didn't realise the wheels were only 14" on the 1240.

[Patriq Backlund]

When I came to work this morning - an issue of Classic & Sports Car lay on my desk with an article for me. My collegue said "I think you might be interrested in this.."

It's october 2007, and I just scanned the images for you here.

Notice the switches to the left of drivers seat on the floor.

[Patriq Backlund]

some more....

[Patriq Backlund]

And yet another one.

[Patriq Backlund]

Are the outer door handles suppose to look like that (images from the article) - or is something missing ?

[John]

Looks like Bertone had a "lean manufacturing" system way back then.
Years ahead of their time.

[Patriq Backlund]

Here are images from an article in Thouroghbred and Classic Cars December 1999.
It says in the article that it is the third prototype - pre production.
And that one could see the old Marlboro livery under the red paint.
And that it supposedly was used for reconnaissance during the Safari Rally.

[Patriq Backlund]

and some more

[Patriq Backlund]

and the last ones....

[tryphon]

This is no prototype. Pure production, you can see from the chassis. I have that magazine.

[strat6v]

Have that one too, somewhere :rolleyes:

Tryphon, you are correct, a production stradale.

[Chris J]

There's a photo of the same car in Marlboro colours in the Jan 87' issue of CCC. (The same issue that Steve Soper drove the first Allora and Transformer replicas as well as Roger Perry's original car that gave birth to the Transformer HF.)

[Patriq Backlund]

This is no prototype. Pure production, you can see from the chassis. I have that magazine.

That's what it looked like to me to. But since it said in the article it was a prototype, I was in doubt.

[Patriq Backlund]

Calling Christian...

Just posting here, hoping that Christian is subscribing to this thread.

Christian, I'm about to do a test paint for a later paintjob of a Hawk build, inspired by the Prototipo.
Would you happen to have a colour code and possibly an indication of how matt the red flourescent colour is ?

Since you own the original....
:-)

Hoping for the best.

Regars,
/Patriq

[hrabi]

FYI the prototypes (3 cars) had aluminium bodywork, dual windshield wipers, fully functional windows (i.e. not hinged), one filler cap located just before the rear body work's louvers on the right, a completely different interior (dashboard, instruments, seats, door cards are all different), completely different chassis, dual wishbone rear suspension, among other minor differences. I think one survives and is under Hrabalek ownership.
Nice to see this one though.


This information is NOT correct!

Lancia made three pre-production cars. These cars had a similar look to the 1240 Prototype but are NOT the same.

They also DID NOT have dual windshield wipers (Typhon, if you think so, then PLEASE show me a single picture where there is more than one car with dual winshield wipers). It is true that the cars had a different chassis to the road car, but these three chassis were also different to the prototype! They did NOT have wishbone suspension, but rather a McPherson type suspension that was, however, different to the road car. I can not comment if the bodywork was aluminum, but two ex-Bertone workers and one ex-Lancia Corse S.p.A. worker mentioned to me that fiberglass bodies were created to resemble the aluminum panels (i.e. with the louvers). It is true though, that these three pre-production cars did indeed have 'normal window mechanisms' (i.e. not hinged). I have an image (black + white) at Lancia Corse with two of these three cars next to each other. None have dual windshield wipers though!!!

I know where this rumor started from...I was with the person when he started 'recollecting' how things were. He also said there was only one LWB Turbo (Thomas' LeMans car) which is crap. There were two.

Unless I see a picture of 'three prototypes', I am afraid I have to believe the my documents (that came with the car) and the info both from Bertone and Lancia.

Best,

Hrabi.

[hrabi]

I am entering the Lancia Stratos HF Prototype at next weeks Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este.

A good friend of mine just bought 'Dino Competizione' and will enter this one-off showcar in the event also...

Both cars, the Stratos Prototype and Dino Competizione should be featured shortly in a UK magazine (6-page story, I am promised).

Part of the requirement of Villa d'Este is a valid FIVA Pass for the car. In order to obtain this (and get the highest 'qualification'), I spent weeks going through all the original documentation that came with the car, original files at Lancia and original files at Bertone (making copies of the latter before they will be lost forever with the adminstrators).

I am now confident to prove, that there was only ONE Lancia Stratos Prototype and only ONE Stratos was fitted with wishbone-suspension.

I will supply all the documents/ findings to the journalist writing the article, which will hopefully help to clear up the faded memories of many period 'specialists'...

Best,

Hrabi.

[chris.richard]

Thanks, Hrabi, that's fascinating info.

[Chris J]

Both cars, the Stratos Prototype and Dino Competizione should be featured shortly in a UK magazine (6-page story, I am promised).

Hrabi.

So both cars have the similar alloy block 206 motor?

[hrabi]

So both cars have the similar alloy block 206 motor?

Yes, I believe so...

[hrabi]

Dear all,

just a quick update.

Yesterday the one-off Lancia Stratos HF Prototypo won its class at Concorso d'Eleganza Villa d'Este- agains tough class-competition in form of Dino Competizione and Bizzarini Manta.

It was a also runner-up for the overall award- missing out by just one vote!

Great news for all Stratos HF and Stratos replica, as it shows that the design is still regarded as one of the most iconic and important automotive designs in history.

According to the judge, Dino Competizione (which was runner-up represtented 'the end of an era', while Stratos HF Prototypo represented 'the beginning of a new one...'

Best,

Hrabi.

PS: A number of articles should follow the Stratos' most recent victory shortly...

[chris.richard]

Some pictures here
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1817/10.html

[Bob]

Stunning!.

[hrabi]

Some pictures here
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1817/10.html

Thanks for this link! Great pictures...

Best,

Hrabi.

[Patriq Backlund]

Congratulations Hrabi !!

That was really nice to hear.

Lovely pictures !

[Bernard]

Nice one Hrabi........... any chance of it appearing at Chatsworth Rally show in the UK ?................................. just thought i'd ask !

Cheers

Bernard

[hrabi]

More images of the Stratos HF Prototipo in the 'gallery' section of http://www.italiaspeed.com/

Best,

Hrabi.

[hrabi]

Stratos HF Prototipo will be at the Goodwood Festival of Speed (Friday, July 11th 2008 to Sunday, July 13th 2008) and participating in 'The Cartier Style and Luxe' competition...

[hrabi]

Just to let anyone interested know that the Stratos HF Prototipo is currently on display at the Salon Prive Concours d'Elegance (Hurlingham Club).

Best,

Hrabi.

[hrabi]

Just to let anyone interested know that the Stratos HF Prototipo is currently on display at the Festival of Speed (Goodwood).

Best,

Hrabi.

[strat6v]

Hopefully catch up with you sometime over the weekend at Goodwood.

Regards.
John.

[hrabi]

Dear All,

you might be interested to know that the Lancia Stratos HF Prototipo is featured in the new issue (no. 63, September 2008) of 'Octane' magazine.

Best,

Hrabi.