Water Pump

[DaveAk]

My water pump went kaput yesterday, going to try EB Spares tomorrow, any other suggestions where I might get a replacement - obviously don't want to go to Alfa unless as very last resort.

Alfa 164 12v V6 3.0 (1989)

Thanks

Dave

[Swamprat33]

Hi Mate. I got my water pump from EB Spares - cost me around £70. It seems to work great if you fit the gasket properly :mad:

[CorseChris]

EB are good...but how about this?

https://sslrelay.com/buypartsby.co.uk/water_pump_details.php?recordID=124

I got one of these for mine. Seems OK. A page back from this link is where you choose the engine type. I'd guess yours is a 6410 but it's the same for a 6412 (stamped on block by engine number so it's easy to be certain).

HTH

[Marmott]

I got mine from Partco, now called Unipart :)

[AndyH]

I've sent you a pm
Andrew

[CorseChris]

Dave, forgive me if you know all this...but you'll need to take the timing belt off to swap the pump. Don't forget to time it up before removing the belt or releasing the tension, and to save the bother of removing the cam covers to get the marks, print off a copy of the cam timing template and note down the figures for you own engine before you start. Unless you know it's a nearly new belt, good time to replace it as well.

Like I say, forgive the egg-sucking lessons if you know this already.

HTH

[Swamprat33]

Id also suggest checking the Belt tensioner. The standard hydraulic units are prone to leaks and the pulley wheel bearings can fail.

I have a manual adjuster which wont leak, but needs carefull adjustment.

Def worth replacing the pully wheel if it does not move freely.

Cheers

Tim

[guy mayers]

Dave, forgive me if you know all this...but you'll need to take the timing belt off to swap the pump.
HTH

First trip to Italy and the water pump failed on the driveway when we got home. I managed to swap it without removing the timing belt although some of the bolts turned the air blue.. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[DaveAk]

Thanks for the reply's - got a new replacement from EB Spares - next day for £45 plus carraige and VAT, total £61 - arrived within 24 hours - great service.

I'm going to have a go at replacing it without removing the timing belt, mainly because it's only a few months ago that it was removed for new tensioner
(I know - I know - I should have replaced the water pump then!! - take heed everyone!) - but also because Guy Mayers has actually done it - so I know it's possible.

Guy was it the bolt that hides behind the cambelt idler pully that is the main difficulty - I've removed all the others, and did you do this with engine in or out of car? Any other tips?

Thanks again folks - this forum is great support.

Dave

[Swamprat33]

I thought I could replace the pump without removing the belts, BUT, could not get the last bolt behind the tensioner off. Eventually slackened the tensioner a little and removed the bolt.
Next issue was that we could not get the pump out from between the belt, so in the end decided it would be quicker and easier to slacken the belt a bit more by removing the tensioner pulley.

This gave us enough slack to remove the pump without removing the belt completely.

Good luck.

Tim

[guy mayers]

Dave, it was that bolt that was a real sod! but it did come out eventually... replace them with socket cap bolts! I managed to get the pump out without slackening the belt off. Skinned knuckles and a lot of swearing but it did come out in the end.

Engine was in the car at the time..

Guy

[CorseChris]

I'll second Tim's thoughts. It was me that opted to partially remove the belt from his car to get the old pump off after we spent a few minutes trying to carefully persuade the pump out. It's easy on a Corse I chassis for one thing. Don't know how it works out on the Hawk so that's a factor obviously. It would be more awkward on my S chassis than the 'I', but I think I'd still opt to pull the belt. We did have a fiddle with it but I didn't much like the amount of fumbling around the edges of the belt that it entailed. It took no more than 5 minutes (if that) to get the belt back on afterward. No injuries, no agro really. We timed it up (well, it was already on the marks), copied the marks to the paper template ready to re-time then pulled the roller bearing off the tensioner body. We left it wrapped on crank, cams and oil pump drive and as luck would have it, the rear cam didn't jump as they often do.

Your call of course, but I think I'd rather make a bit more room to work in myself. Too old and impatient to spend 30 minutes p155ing about with a difficult access problem when 5 minutes removing something in the way makes life simple.

There's no need to be scared of the timing belt on this engine if you follow some simple guidelines. Main one is to put it on the timing marks before you disturb anything. Second one is to print off a copy of the timing reference gauge, then mark up exactly how your motor is set when on the marks. It's then childs play to re-time it again later, without having to remove the cam covers. If you are using either the hydraulic or the thermal tensioner which both have large amounts of compliance, I wouldn't be worried about removing and re-fitting a belt that's only a few months old either. If you have a fixed tensioner then I wouldn't re-use a belt if it's been run for more than a few hours.

HTH

[DaveAk]

Well I got the water pump off, without taking the timing belt off or loosening the tensioner, without too much difficulty. I did have to cut through the two heater hose pipes going into the engine block, but it makes sense to renew these anyway.

Now to put the new one on - anyone know what the torque settings are for the water pump housing nuts?

Thanks

Dave

[CorseChris]

Well done Dave. Don't know how you managed that without bending the crap out of the timing belt mind! Can't recall the torque figure for those but it's not very high. Be gentle with them as there isn't a lot of thread length into the block on some of them, and they can pull out really easily. I don't use a torque wrench on them myself, rather do it by feel for such small bolts. Also, put some copperslip on the bolts when you assemble the thing as most of them end up wet and can corrode in place otherwise, aprticularly the long ones that go through the thermostat 'sandwich'.

[DaveAk]

Thanks Chris,

Everything bolted back together today, without disturbing the timing belt - although there was bit of bending the belt sideways, to get the new pump housing in place - do you think this might have damaged the belt somehow?

On the Hawk I think one factor is - how far people have moved the diagonal chassis bar to fit the V6 - I seem to have moved it away enough to let me do this job.

Worst job was to get the gasket in place - took ages, but very satisfying to have done the job myself.

Anyway thanks everyone who contributed advice on here.

Best wishes

Dave

[mudhut]

Now to put the new one on - anyone know what the torque settings are for the water pump housing nut


Bit late now you've put the belt on, but I think my 24V manual says around 6 lbft. Can't check right now, I'm in Japan and it took me two bloody days to get here courtesy of Air France :mad:

[CorseChris]

Hi Dave,

Hopefully not! Belts are tough, but they don't take kindly to nicks and cuts, which was what concerned me when we tried to remove the pump from Tim's car to replace the gasket so we just pulled the already loose belt. Made getting the gasket on easy too ;)

Whatever, glad it's sorted.