progress

[pimms]

Made some progress at last, had a spring holliday and fitted the engine again. Connected the cooling system, fuel system and the exhausts. Now for the electrics I want to make sure i do it right. I fitted the motronic loom to the engine and coil. I don't want to fit the Hawk loom yet but do want to try and start the engine. Its been standing still for almost 2 years now and i'm not up the the Hawk loom for a long time.
Found the 8 way Grey plug that needs to be connected to get the engine started.
Please correct me if i am wrong, i want to connect it as follows:

Pink / white to the fuel pump
Pink to the ignition ( feeding motrinic and fuel pump relay )
Green / black to the ignition ( feeding coil )
2 red cables to the battery
2 black cables to earth

Fuel pump has a thick and thin conection, which does the pink/white cable go to?

Theres also mention of a brown / white cable, i think for the Tacho :confused: but cant see it on the grey plug. There is a white one with a red stripe ( second from the left on the second pic ) is that the right one??

There are also some extra connectors hanging on the loom with a yellow relay, what to do with them? Third picture.

I know its a lot of questions youve all heard before and i did read a lot of threads about this, but want to make sure i do nothing wrong :o

Thanks

[Bernard]

Pimms..........

Looks like you are making a great job..... like the exhaust system.. it looks nice and simple (easy pipe route)

Can't wait to see it over here !!

Good luck

Bernard

[pimms]

Pimms..........

Looks like you are making a great job..... like the exhaust system.. it looks nice and simple (easy pipe route)

Can't wait to see it over here !!

Good luck

Bernard

Thanks Bernard,

I used part of the Alfa's down pipes and some 50 mm bends to make the system. The silencers are from a Honda 900cc fireblade, cheap cause they are often replaced by carbon type silencers on the bikes. Material costs about 150 Euro's! I like the Hawk system but is a bit too expensive for me. Also this looks a bit :rolleyes: more like the original Gr 4 set up.

The only worry is the noise level, but if i can start the engine up this weekend i can measure it. At what distance should i measure and what is the maximum noise level ?

Second worry is the silencers stick out the back a little maybe the SVA won't agree :confused:

Cheers , Pim

[Bernard]

For Sprinting and Hillclimbs they measure approx 1 metre away from exhaust with 2/3 of the revs and i think mine measures 98dba..... if thats any use to you

Bernard

[Swamprat33]

Hi Pimms, I am doing exactly same job right now on my engine.
The pink/whit cable goes from Fuel pump to fuel pump relay, the other wire on the fuel pump itself should go to earth.
The pink/white cable goes to the larger terminal, black earth uses the smaller terminal.

Not too sure about the yello relay - dont seem to have one on my car, or at least, it is not in the engine bay!
I have 2 relays - Motronic relay with diode and Fuel pump relay - thats it.

Please tell me what the wires are on that yellow relay and i'll work it out from the wiring diags.

Hope that helps.

Tim

[chris.richard]

UK motorsport regulations are - 1m away at 45 degrees to exhaust axis. 4500 rpm. Mine was 109dBa at 3500 rpm. :eek: Who did your system Bernard, and how much was it?

[CorseChris]

Looking good Pimms. The yellow relay is a 'coding relay' for the Motronic - it configures the ECU to expect/use a Lambda probe. They were a bit optional on the early cars depending on market etc. If you don't have the Lambda fitted, remove the yellow relay.

There's nothing clever in there by the way, just a couple of bridging links that connect the appropriate pairs of wires in the loom.

The white 4-pole connector next to the yellow relay is a diagnostic socket. On US cars, it connects to a simple switch and lamp arrangement that allows you to get at some limited diagnostics checks as well as the stored error codes via the 'flashing light' technique. I made one up to interrogate the ECU on my old donor 164. Have a look at the wiring diagrams and you should see the lamp (in the dash) and the switch.

The black 3 pole connector with the green seal is the proper FL tester diagnostics socket. Leave disconnected.

Can't recall what the red plug is for...might be connection to the auto box if fitted?.

HTH

[Swamprat33]

Hi Chris. can I please ask a quick question that is related to this.

I have a red wire on the Motronic relay that goes to the original ECU, there is also a Grey/Black wire on the fuel pump relay that also goes to the ECU on the original Alfa wiring diags.

I have wired the new relays as shown below:
Motronic
red from 12V and to FP relay
Black to earth
pink to fp relay
red to injectors 12v
Orange to IACV
Red to ?ECU? - not yet sorted.

Fuel pump relay
Pink from Motronic - Pink to ECU pin 20
Red from Motronic
Pink/white to Fuel pump
Grey/Black ?ECU? - not yet sorted.


From the info I have from you and Emerald, these two wires don't seem to be required. Can you please confirm or tell me where they should go.
Most of the wiring is now done - just this to go now.
However, still need to get the 155 plug leads before i can try to start her up.

many thanks

Tim

[Bernard]

Dr Chris
The guy who made my system, Chris Smith's and Ken Tomblins worked out of Wootten Bassett down south, can't remember his name but maybe Uncle Ken can shead some light on his name and contact details, cost around £800 about 5 yrs ago

Bernard

[John]

The red plug is for the auto transmission. Make sure there is a bridge in this plug for your manual application or it will not fire (IIRC)
Red/White wire will be the starter solenoid feed will it not?

[CorseChris]

So, are you saying I should be charging £1600 for this help then?? :)


I've responded to Tim via e-mail, in case anyone thinks I'm ignoring him!

[pimms]

Thanks all for youre comments, will let you know how it works out!

Cheers

[pimms]

Thanks all for youre comments, will let you know how it works out!

Cheers

Yes!!!! it runs :) :) :D :D .

Fuel pump was connected wrong at first but the thicker connection was earth.
Only a few turns and the engine ran good, tickover super!!

Thanks all for youre help, a big stimulance to push on :)

The white and brown wire is connected to the -1 on the coil so that must be the Tacho wire. Also put a bridge on the red plug. It all worked out fine.

Now a nice could beer or more :D

Cheers

[Swamprat33]

Really pleased for you Pimms - always good to hear it running.

I have almost completed re-wiring my engine for the Emerald ECU today - should complete it tomorrow. Have already connected laptop to ecu and adjusted throttle pot etc and all sensors were recognised.

Need a set of Alfa 155 plug leads before i can start it though. The 164 leads dont fit the 155 coil pack I am now using instead of the 164 dizzie.

Hey ho

[pimms]

UK motorsport regulations are - 1m away at 45 degrees to exhaust axis. 4500 rpm. Mine was 109dBa at 3500 rpm. :eek: Who did your system Bernard, and how much was it?

Car was inside wen it ran so i could not measure Db level, will try so next weekend.
Anyone know the official SVA Db maximum? Is it also at 1 mtr and 45 degrees angle?

[Matt No VAT]

Well done Pim, theres nothing the first time fire up ! Puts the biggest smile on your face and the only thing that beats that is the first time you drive the car.

Keep up the good work!

[pimms]

Got these figures from the Dutch kitcarclub ( www.kitcarclub.nl ):
At minimal 200mm from the ground,
at a 500mm distance,
under a 45 degree angle and at 3/4 from max revs,
the sound level may not exceedd 101 Db.

Would that be at about 4500 revs?? ( for the Alfa 3ltr 12 v of course )

[Bernard]

Pimms
At MIRA sprint this last weekend...........
the sound was taken from 1m at 45 degrees with 2/3 rev limit (4000rpm on alfa v6) and my car read 105.5dBa..... 108 being the limit
Cheers
Bernard

[Sando]

Would that be at about 4500 revs?? ( for the Alfa 3ltr 12 v of course )

Nice one Pim

for the Uk SVA you specify the max revs on the application form, so you are ok so long as it is believable.
(my Twink only revved to 6000 ? ;) )

Rob

[Swamprat33]

Well, Ive completed the wiring this evening.
Car turns over ok on the key, but dont have any plug leads yet :eek:
I found out a week or so ago that the 164 leads dont fit the 155 coil pack. Just something else to consider if you plan to go the wasted spark route.

Connected the laptop to the Emerald and it lives :D
Set up throttle pot, IACV, crank sensor etc and all seems to be OK.

Got a new(ish) Alfa 155 coil and plug lead set today, hope these arrive later in week.

Plan to try and 'fire her up' at the weekend. This is the bit that REALLY bothers me. Just hope it all works.

Will keep you posted

Tim

[mudhut]

Good luck Tim: nearly there.

[pimms]

A friend of mine is trying to start up an Alfa for a kitcar project, he can't seem to find the grey connector. Do 24 valve type engines have an other type of connector, maybe round ?

[pimms]

Got these figures from the Dutch kitcarclub ( www.kitcarclub.nl ):
At minimal 200mm from the ground,
at a 500mm distance,
under a 45 degree angle and at 3/4 from max revs,
the sound level may not exceedd 101 Db.

Would that be at about 4500 revs?? ( for the Alfa 3ltr 12 v of course )

Measured the noise level last weekend, its around the 101 Db a . So that is pretty close to the maximum. Any tips on getting the noise level a few Db lower, just to be safe?

[SUSIT]

Measured the noise level last weekend, its around the 101 Db a . So that is pretty close to the maximum. Any tips on getting the noise level a few Db lower, just to be safe?


Was the rear bodywork on and closed? It may make a small difference if it was off

[Sando]

Hi Pim
If they are Bike race cans, then you can get a decibel killer insert to stick up the end of the pipe for temporary noise (and power) reduction.
They're used in the UK for track days that have lower noise limits.
Can usually be found on eBay or in Bike magazines / on line shops. They should do the trick. :)

Hundreds of them...usual place (http://search.ebay.co.uk/search/search.dll?cgiurl=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.co.uk%2Fws %2F&fkr=1&from=R8&satitle=db+killer&category0=)

Rob

[pimms]

Stephen, the back was of the first time, second time it was on made no visible difference. Was abit close to the buildings though maybe that makes a diference ?

Thanks Rob, will try to find the right ones for my fireblade mufflers.

Cheers

[CorseChris]

Pim,

It does make quite a difference if there are walls nearby - they do the test in an open area for this very reason.

[CorseChris]

Pim,

I just came across this info which might be useful

http://www.users.on.net/~craigf/fuelquality.htm

it details which connections to make on that red 'relay' socket to set up the ECU for fuel octane and whether you have a lambda probe fitted or not.

Safest bet would be the 'red plug' option I think. This assumes no lambda probe and 95 octane. The important bit is open loop or closed loop. Closed loop implies you have a probe fitted, or it will panic and run rich. Open loop assumes no probe. CAT or no CAT is not important as such.

Best bet would be to fit a lambda probe and go for the 'yellow' option, unless you will always use 97 ron fuel.

FWIW, I have no plug connected on my car at present and can get it to 'pink' slightly with 95 ron fuel. It's fine on 97 ron which is what I was running it on at first for the initial 500 miles on the fresh engine. It'll be getting an Emerald ECU pretty soon so I'll just keep feeding it 97 ron for now, although a short piece of wire and a couple of spade terminals is probably a cheaper option!

Hope this is of some use.

[pimms]

Thanks Chris, this could be of some great use!