Headlight flash

[AndyH]

Hi,

I know this has been mentioned before, but I'm trying to figure out if headlight flash is an absolute requirement for SVA and if it is, does it need to be from the stalk or not.?

Connected the battery and the lights work fine, but no flash (in any position that I can see).

Can't see anywhere in my SVA regs that mentions a test for headlight flash though, so not sure if (at this stage) I need to work it out or not.

Anyone got an answer on this.

Regards

Andrew

[strat6v]

Seems odd? With the stalk down, or is it up, it should flash. If you look on the back of your stalks at where all the wires come out, you can easily identify the flash and washer switches. There are a couple of wires grouped differently from the rest.

[AndyH]

Strangely, my headlight dip / beam stalk has 3 positions. Up doesn't seem to do a lot, middle is beam and down is dip? I have two of these column switch units from the 1300cc car and both are the same. I also have a later 1500cc unit that only has two positions?

Anyone seen this before??

Andrew

[strat6v]

I thought up was headlights off, middle being dip and bottom main. also taking into account that the dash switch gives you pop up and sidelights :confused:

[Bob]

Yeah, that's how mine work too John.

[AndyH]

Hi,

The dash switch does give me pop up and sidelights.

A simple wire swop can give me what you guys have.

I can't see anything in the wire loom that I have that will facilitate a headlight flash, and I've no wires that are not in use from the column switches. (Although the stalk does appear to pull back to give a flash function). I might try my other set of stalks and check that this one is not faulty.

The chap who built the HAWK loom agrees that his loom does not look to utilise / have flash and has advised that flash is not needed for SVA.

I'm not going to change anything for fear of taking a huge backward step.

Thanks for your help / advice.
Andrew

[strat6v]

With the flash switch being seperate from the main beam switch, is it not possible to connect the wire from both to the main beam wire in the loom? All they are doing is providing the same function in paralell with each other.

Make sure your main and dip beam currents are switched by relays or your stalks will cry enough in a fairly short time, either that or some smoke may escape from the wires :eek:

[AndyH]

Hi John,

I could probably do something if I could find the wire connection r=that does the switch... All wires used and no obvious flash connection.

I'll have another look tonight. Happy days.

Andrew

[strat6v]

email me a pic of the back of your stalks. I could probably tell you from that.

john.

[carlsberg]

I had my car SVA'd last year at manchester and they checked for 'flash'

my dashboard light switch is 3 position off side and side with headlamps up.
the stalk also has 3 positions.
uppermost still side lights only with headlamps up.
middle position main beam
lower position dipped beam.
If I pull the stalk towards me the headlamps will flash no matter what the position of the dashboard switch or the stalk.
hope this helps
chris

[AndyH]

Hi John,

Cracked it, and just as well.

If I'd left as is, with the main headlights on, pulling to flash would have taken the main beam to earth.. not good.

Give the same terminal 12V and it switches to the main beam on flash.

It doesn't pop up the headlights, but I've got spots on the front wired to the main beam via the fog relay, so these flash when the pods are down. (main beam in the pod is also on, just can't see it).

Well chuffed... I'm running out of reasons for not dropping the engine in and seeing what happens.

If anyone else has a recent HAWK loom, I can explain in detail if you drop me a PM.

Thanks for your help.

Cheers

Andrew

[strat6v]

Just check your sva requirement regarding the flash operating the front fog lights. It may say something about the flash or main beam can't operate any other lamp, not sure but this kind of thing sounds familiar :confused:

I decided to use a set of thema column stalks instead of the fiat ones i'd already fitted. Two reasons, firstly the lighting part is really easy to figure out and i have wired the pop up pods to lift with 'side lights'. secondly, i'm also using the thema wiper motor which has a dedicated sub loom between wiper motor and stalk, just plugs in, and also i get an intermittent operation besides the slow and fast speeds. Replication wasn't that important but functionality won out

All a bolt on swap.

[AndyH]

Hi John,

I wasn't expecting it, but my pods lift on sidelight as std, so I'm happy about that.

The lights that flash on the front are spots, not fogs (just wired through the fog lights relay)..

I'll check my regs again, but when I read a couple of nights ago, I couldn't find anything on flash, but from memory they did mention only one set of lights on dip.

Cheers
Andrew

[Chris J]

'Just brought this one back.

I'm looking at being able to flash (some) front lamps from the stalk. I've also got spots where fogs once were, and I'd like them to go off when the main does.

Are spot lamps legal at that height? (front rectangular Carellos)

I think I need to sit down and draw a wiring diagram to suit.

[chris.richard]

Chris I've got a diagram for a neat setup that does main/dip/fog flash or main flash from one pull-to-make stalk switch. I'll email you the diagram.

[strat6v]

mee too please!

[AndyH]

Hi,

I've also got spots instead of fogs... I disconnected the feed to the fog relay coil and used a spur off the headlight main beam relay coil feed to pull on the spot lights.

The headlamps don't pop up (they do flash, but in the pod). Thus flash is only visible on the spot lights.

Spot lights come on with main beam.

Passed SVA with no problems.

Andrew

[Chris J]

Chris I've got a diagram for a neat setup that does main/dip/fog flash or main flash from one pull-to-make stalk switch. I'll email you the diagram.

Thanks Chris, I'll PM my email if you have'nt got it, and can send your diagram to John if you like?

[Chris J]

Spot lights come on with main beam.

Passed SVA with no problems.

Andrew

Andrew,

Thanks for that. So, as I understand it, you've got no option of having just main beam without the spots? Spots not switchable that is?

I'm guessing not, because if they were switched and the switch was in the spots off position you wouldn't be able to flash the spots at a moments notice?

[Chris J]

Is your's like this Andrew?

[AndyH]

So, as I understand it, you've got no option of having just main beam without the spots? Spots not switchable that is?
I

Hi,

Correct, not switchable. I didn't see it as a problem to have it like this. Could be done with another relay I guess.

Andrew

[AndyH]

Is your's like this Andrew?
Hi,
Just seen the next post. Yes that looks pretty much like it.
Andrew

[Chris J]

I've just read that Guy had the three position left long stalk wired up for:
1. dip,
2. main and
3. main with spots.

I like the above because it wouldn't be possible to switch the headlamps off with the stalk (never a good thing when driving at night?) I'd still like something that flashes the spots, rather than having a 'long' flash with the headlamps having to pop up and back down.

[Chris J]

I think I'm going to have the column stalk flash circuit indipendant of the column stalk main beam circuit, and have it feeding the same terminal as the on the front spots relay as the feed from the front spots switch.

I'll have the feed into the front spots switch from the main beam circuit (from the column stalk).

If anyone can see a potential smoke leak in the above, please let me know asap.

[Patriq Backlund]

I have some following up/additional questions - since I'm going through and veryfying my 124 Sport stalk assembly.

First. My stalk only has two positions for the the beam. This corresponds to the wiring description in the build manual I have from Hawk.
There, green is feed from dash switch, grey/red is main beam, blue is dip beam and brown is live feed from fusebox.

What I have figured out is that when I pull the stalk (to flash) there is lead through brown to blue cable - regardless of if the stalk is up or down (one of two positions). Hence current coming from the brown wire is lead to the blue which is dip beam.

Now to my questions:
Everything in the Hawk manual makes sense except:

1. There is one grey wire. It is coupled with the yellow/black wire when wiper is set to fast. Yellow/black is fused ignition feed accordingly the Hawk manual. This makes sense.
But further up it also says that grey is "(horn, operates earth)" This makes no sense. How could the same wire both work for the horn and the wiper? If you look at the images you can also see that I have shorted out where the horn button otherwise should be (I hope I've shorted it out correctly to give the same function as the horn button would). Grey wire then has no coupling with any other wire I can find. Nor can I find any other wire that couples with any of the ones that would make sense (bearing current - for example the green or the brown wire that are current to the beam.

So which wire do you guys have wired for the horn. And how does it operate ?

2. Green/black wire should operate screen washers. There is no green/black wire on my stalk (and the Hawk build manual says here that the green/black wire is supposed to be on the Column. It does however also say under the sublisting 'wiper/washer switch'). None of the wires that I have left over after sorting out all other functions except the horn seems to couple via the wiper stalk when I pull it (I can pull it - and there seems to be a switch coupled to pulling it).

So I have two functions that I haven't confirmed working properly on my stalk assembly.

Other than that I also have these wires seemingly not in use (some of the maybe for the functions I haven't yet confirmed):
white, white/black, yellow, purple/black, grey/black.
These are the ones not crossed out in the first image.

Does anyone know if these are unused, or if they can help me give the two functions not confirmed working yet ?

3. If you look at the second image - there are two blue wires going to the same socket. And also two green wires going to the same socket. If I check at the socket - the wiring from the description in the Hawk manual corresponds. (Blue is dip beam, and green is feed from dash switch) But why are there two ? And what would happen if I seperate them ? (This is just out of curiousity)

4. Third image shows how I've shorted out what the horn button would do. Did I do it correctly so that I can contiune to search for the wire(s) for the horn ?

As always, any help is appriciated !

[Chris J]

Patriq,

Just for a start...

If your steering wheel was removed you'd be certain which wire colour codes are the two that the horn button completes its earth circuit. You can see the ends of the wires from the steering wheel hub side (hub contacts). If you can't remove the wheel, look at which wires go into holes and have no rivets showing (all the other wires have rivets, which you can use your test light on to check function/or the multi plug terminals) On mine the horn earth circuit wires are the purple/black and grey/black.

The headlamp stalk circuits on mine are grey/red for dip beam and blue for main beam. The flash circuit also feeds the blue (main) as standard on mine, but I might modify that.

I don't know what the twin white wires do either??

[Patriq Backlund]

Thanks !

Yes, I'll remove the steering wheel. The tool I had didn't grip it properly - so I have to get me another one.
I figured I could find out the way you described.

Ok, so:

-You don't operate the screen washers from your stalks ?

-You have dip beam and main beam the other way around from the Hawk description ? (It says blue for dip beam and grey/red for main beam)

-Did you also have a third position on the beam stalk ? Mine only has two.

[Chris J]

Ok, so:

-You don't operate the screen washers from your stalks ?

-You have dip beam and main beam the other way around from the Hawk description ? (It says blue for dip beam and grey/red for main beam)

-Did you also have a third position on the beam stalk ? Mine only has two.

Sorry Patriq, I have got screen washers, it's green/black (fiat column stalks)

It looks like I've got dip and main the other way round to you. I have got three positions on the headlamp long left stalk, so I suppose it can be wired to how you want? Mine is side only with the stalk up, dip with the same stalk in the middle and main with the stalk at the bottom. This is a good way to have the three positions as it stops you from dipping to side only instead of dipping to dip! That might be why they've been swapped around? The three position stalk is maybe an earlier X1/9 type, the style of stalk is correct though. I think some (or all?) of the 124s have only two postions, so you couldn't dip to side in any case with a two positon stalk.

These colour codes mentioned are just the ones on the Fiat column stalks. The dip and main beam circuits (from stalk multi plug to each relay) on my Hawk loom are actually blue/orange for dip and blue/black for main.

There have been other threads on this forum regarding the column stalks and headlamp/side lamp circuits.

[Patriq Backlund]

Sorry Patriq, I have got screen washers, it's green/black (fiat column stalks)



Thanks Chris !
Ok. So it feeds the screen washers with +12V, and the washers itself is grounded ? Do you know on what wire +12v comes in to to green/black?
(same way as green wire on the column feeds +12v to the blue wire and then to beam light when long left stalk is set appropriately)

Then I can simply figure out which wire that the screen washer should come out on - since I don't have a green/black wire.

It looks like I've got dip and main the other way round to you. I have got three positions on the headlamp long left stalk, so I suppose it can be wired to how you want? Mine is side only with the stalk up, dip with the same stalk in the middle and main with the stalk at the bottom. This is a good way to have the three positions as it stops you from dipping to side only instead of dipping to dip! That might be why they've been swapped around? The three position stalk is maybe an earlier X1/9 type, the style of stalk is correct though. I think some (or all?) of the 124s have only two postions, so you couldn't dip to side in any case with a two positon stalk.

These colour codes mentioned are just the ones on the Fiat column stalks. The dip and main beam circuits (from stalk multi plug to each relay) on my Hawk loom are actually blue/orange for dip and blue/black for main.

Yes, I've seen that. That's why I only quoted the colours on the FIAT column.


There have been other threads on this forum regarding the column stalks and headlamp/side lamp circuits.

Thanks again !

[Chris J]

Do you know on what wire +12v comes in to to green/black?

One of the two yellow/black wires is the feed for the green/black (right stalk pull).

[Patriq Backlund]

Ok, thanks.
I'll see if I can sort the last details out tonight then.

[Patriq Backlund]

Just to follow up, and for future reference for others. I've now finally got around to buy a tool to remove the steering wheel. So I've now sorted out what all wires do.

But, I still haven't found out how to wash the windows....

Well - from my 124 Sport column wires are coupled as below:

Light switch
Green (as the Hawk manual) - Feed from dash switch
Grey/Red (as the Hawk manual) - Main beam
Blue (as the Hawk manual) - Dip beam
Brown (as the Hawk manual) - Live feed from fusebox

Indicator switch
Purple (as the Hawk manual) - Feed via flasher relay
Light blue (NOT as the Hawk manual) - right hand indicator
Blue/Black (as the Hawk manual) - left hand indicator

Grey/Black & Purple/Black (NOT as the Hawk manual) - Horn

Wiper/Washer switch
Yellow/Black (as the Hawk manual) - Fused ignition feed
Red (as the Hawk manual) - Slow speed
Grey (as the Hawk manual) - Fast speed

In addition
White/Black (NOT as the Hawk manual) - Fused ignition feed
White (NOT as the Hawk manual) - Slow speed
Yellow (NOT as the Hawk manual) - Fast speed

Note - the first 3 wires for wiper, none of them are interchangeable with the second set. Which means that there are double set of switches coupled to the wiper stalk - since wires can't be on the same switch. Then they would have been interchangeble between the sets.

This has me confused, why are wiper wires in double sets ?

With this, all wires are acounted for. That leaves me no wire for washing the window. And it says 'wash' on the stalk.....

[Chris J]

Patriq

When you put a 12v feed into the wiper stalk, does that feed one of the terminals/wires when you pull the wiper stalk towards you?