Looking for a 164 24v donor

[Timberwolf]

Hi there, looking for a 164 super 24v for a donor, usual story, don't mind a car thats off the road, whacked etc but it does need to have a decent engine and box (of course). I'm keeping a very careful eye on ebay but anything in your local press, shop windows, under the bed, behind the sofa, etc?

Everything that crops up is either silly, silly money (£3500 for a 164???? :eek: ) or in katmandoo (Essex! - I'm in Cumbria......) hope someone can help, that shell out there looks sad without the loud bits! :o

Thanks in antici.......pation!

[strat6v]

At least one a month on ebay, just keep looking.

[chris.richard]

Depending on what you're planning on doing with the car John, for rallying you'll need to use a 2500 24v - lots of Alfa 156 & 155 on eBay for little money. Or else a 3L 12v. A Lancia Kappa (if you can find one) has a Lancia badged Alfa V6, which looks good, if not authentic.

[Timberwolf]

Yeah, ebay keeps coming up with stuff, generally one a week, but either they go too expensive or are in katmandoo or both, I'm a persistent b**ger though so I'll keep looking. Just wondered if anyone had one 'round the back' gathering dust and causing marital strife (usually why you have to get rid of them in my experience!)

I'm looking to do general club motorsport maybe track days, 'originality' or 'authenticity' is not an issue, I just adore the shape, always have, ever since I saw one belting through Dalby forest as a lad. Our local club, Wigton (MSA club of the year last year, well done Graham and crew!) also runs a speed championship which is based around sprinting. So it just wants to be an all rounder, nothing too serious, and an enjoyable road car too. Torque is important which hopefully 3 litres will give, top end is also important, 24v gives that. Quite a few folks on here that started with the 12v in a primarily competition car seem to be going to the 24v, so as the prices don't seem to be all that different I'm going 24v from the start. My reasoning anyhow.....I stand to be corrected :)

BTW the car I've got is the ex 'armourerdoug' car, basically the classic part completed project, (started in 1989 so the bill of sale says :eek: is this a record?) a rolling chassis with good proportion of the bits needed, all I need to source now are some of the motorsport orientated bits and the powertrain. And then there is the small matter of buttoning it all together :rolleyes:

[strat6v]

You've come to the right place for help with your build. If you find a decent 24v 164, there are quite a few bits besides the engine/box that are useful.

You could also join the Stratos enthusiasts club as well, many or most of the regulars here are members too. Between the forum and the club you will find a wealth of info to help you on the pathway :)

Try and buy a roadworthy car you can drive for a short while, just to make sure everything works ok.

Good luck with the hunt.

[Timberwolf]

Thanks John,
I've lurked for a good while now and gone through much of the archive swotting up on some of the stuff I was non too sure on. That is why I've come to the conclusion i have re which donor. This place is with out doubt the definitive guide! Imagine if it was all wrapped up into a book, i'd be like the encyclopedia britannica...... :)

SEC subs on their way soon.

[strat6v]

You'll get as much from the club side of things as the forums, just like a big family :)

Hang on for a manual donor car, low mileage preffered.You'll be surprised how much stuff you can recycle into your strat, list like a roll of wallpaper!

[Sptwoman]

Take the advice and hang on!! I've been close on a number of occasions but these cars fetch good money. Over 9 months later I've just bought a 164 QV, which I hope is the one for me. Down side it's just west of katmandoo in Guernsey so I'll have to import it first :rolleyes:

[mudhut]

Down side it's just west of katmandoo in Guernsey so I'll have to import it first :rolleyes:

That'll be the eBay one then?

[strat6v]

There was a 24v for auction this last week. Chap said he had a cloverleaf as well that he was either going to sell or to list on ebay, can't quite remember which :o

Perhaps you could try Vince Bachu. He has been trying to sell a clover for a while. If it's a breaker, make sure you hear it run first tho.

0121 706 0488
07817 237 295

Acocks green,
Birmingham.

[Sptwoman]

Peter, I forgot you were in the Southampton area!! Yes, It's been on ebay several times. It's now mine. I'm trying to sort out for this Friday coming when the CAT comes into Weymouth. Need to sort the logistics etc... :confused:

[strat6v]

Vince has the 24v on ebay at the moment, listed in alfa romeo parts. He goes by the name of veloce 75 evo.

[strat6v]

I know where there is a 147gta but, 1- it's ingested water :eek: and 2- he wants into five figures, i know, not a prayer in hell. according to the previous owner, it was a cat a.

[Timberwolf]

Saw the guernsey one too, weymouth is a looooooong way from Cumbria, i think it's back on again.

Why do people put cars on with an opening bid less than the reserve? Can't quite understand it, is it to get some bids to go up to the reserve? Why not have a higher opening bid? maybe there is some deep psycological reason, haven't sussed the ebay psycology yet.

Where is Mr bachu? 0121 - Brum? Who he?

[strat6v]

He breaks alfas. may have one or two 24valvers?

[mudhut]

Allen, being that much closer to Weymouth than you, if you think I may be able to help with things then let me know. After the end of next week it's the easter school hols for me so no work (well apart from GCSE technology course work marking).

[strat6v]

24v clover on alfa owner.com, £ 850.00

[Timberwolf]

AAAAnd badabing....gone already! ain't that the way? Others there though, didn't know bout the site! Googled the planet for alfa's for sale, maybe I'm a muppet but never went there!

Thanks for the link stratv6!

[strat6v]

First off, go through the alfas for sale on alfa owner.com, many times the cars don't sell so the person may still have it. Should be umpteen pages to go at.
also, try ringing the smaller alfa specialists in the back of autoitalia, leave your number with them, just in case they find owt. Generally, when somebody needs work doing at said specialists on a 164 it's an uneconomical job so you may get lucky.

[mudhut]

I Wouldn't worry so much about a QV either. There are more 24V Supers and you can easily add the larger runners at a later date.

Also the QVs are not so very common and it's a shame to break one up just for its engine if it's still Ok as a complete car (or to otherwise vandalise it like those muppets on Top Gear - this was a good car and the former owner went onto some of the forums to show his displeasure)

[Sptwoman]

Peter, My thoughts as well!! I'm thinking if this QV is a good one then it won't be trashed. I'm importing next weekend and it's off to my local garage for a full sorting. Will know more after they've played..Time will tell..

[chris.richard]

I've lurked for a good while now and gone through much of the archive swotting up on some of the stuff I was non too sure on. That is why I've come to the conclusion i have re which donor. This place is with out doubt the definitive guide! Imagine if it was all wrapped up into a book, i'd be like the encyclopedia britannica...... :)

SEC subs on their way soon.

Yes, you really need the club newsletter archive cd as a reference source too.
Welcome aboard!

[chris.richard]

The 164 forum might have some sources
try here (http://www.digest.net/alfa/FAQ/164/bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi)

[Chris J]

24v manual 164 on Autotrader £995 (Huddersfield):

http://pictures.autotrader.co.uk/ATD_web/servlet/media?id=6005824

[Timberwolf]

Thanks for all the input guy's! Done the deal :)

Saw it on ebay a while ago, didn't sell, then it was on Alfa owner. It was near my dear old mum's so killed two birds so to speak while doing the required easter visit. Never driven a 164 before, nice car, even with goosed suspension, engine seems very strong, and the whole thing is argueably too good to break, however.... :D can't wait to get that engine in the strat where it belongs! Should be a real hoot.

One thing, how good should the gear change be? It's just a bit recalcitrant, not notchy or crunchy just a bit difficult, and the clutch is heeeeeaaaavy, even in comparison to our audi TT, truck like compared to a hilux. I'm guessing knackered bushes etc in the gear linkage - will get chucked an' replace with rose joints etc in the strat, but the clutch? It's hydraulic, shouldn't it be easy? or is it down to macho Italians?

[mudhut]

Ah the clutch - "they're all like that sir".

Have you noticed the pedal is slow to return? Remove the clutch hydraulic line that goes into the circular restrictor bolted to the bracket below the air filter box, and screw it directly into the clutch slave cylinder. The clutch is a bit better now and the pedal returns more smartly.

Linkage - it is a bit vague on mine too but never driven a new one to compare with.

[Timberwolf]

I might look into juggling the master cylinder / slave cylinder ratio, ala brake systems, the throw of the pedal seems very short, so I'm imagining the mechanical advantage of the hydraulics is low. Bit more leverage and a differant master cylinder might help matters. Either that or go to the gym and do that walky uppy thing......no too hideous to contemplate, I'll walk up 'our' mountain a few times.

Now need to look up the thread on how to wreck a perfectly decent alfa and produce a pile of bits that i may or may not recognise after the intervening weeks. :rolleyes:

[mudhut]

When you find the link, post it here. I'm in that territory too! :D

[strat6v]

List of 164 24v parts.

Engine
Gearbox
Gear linkage + lever
Management loom
ecu
ignition amplifiers(near battery tray)
evap valve(in lh front wing, 24v)
Air flow meter
power distribution block on lh front bulkhead
clutch slave cylinder
fuel pump(in tank)
brake calipers
discs(if mint)
handbrake cable
male and female elec plugs from the doors
battery cable
coloured multiplugs under the dash
lambda probe from cat
fuses, relays etc

[Timberwolf]

Thanks for that list John, now just need to find/identify some of those bits! Is there a haynes for the 164 24v?

The reference to the thread I'm looking for is:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1967&highlight=engine+removal

haven't found the thread he's refering to yet, I'll keep looking.

[chris.richard]

There's no Haynes manual, you need the cardisc cd. links in here somewhere. Also the eper parts disc gives exploded views of the bits. Also get a paper copy of the 24v supplement.

[Sptwoman]

As mentioned earlier I've sourced my QV from the channel Isles but have not yet made the journey. Is there an idiots guide to buying the 164 I can use in 2 weeks time?

[chris.richard]

What sort of thing are you looking for?

[igosling]

Depending on what you're planning on doing with the car John, for rallying you'll need to use a 2500 24v - lots of Alfa 156 & 155 on eBay for little money. Or else a 3L 12v. A Lancia Kappa (if you can find one) has a Lancia badged Alfa V6, which looks good, if not authentic.

Sorry to chip in late in the day. Never considered a 156 or 155, but I assume these sit on the same mounts as a 3L 12v? That said does this mean you could fit a anything from 2500 to 3200??


Might go looking for one if someone can give me a steer

Iain

[strat6v]

If you fit a 3.2 then you will either have to weld a new mount on the chassis at the rear and rehash the bit on the rear of the gearbox or swap for a 164 rear casting which also needs a top hat spacer inside. Six speed box also requires a new end mount but is very easy to fabricate. Done both on mine. All viewable this sunday at me open day!! Some of this was covered in newsletter number 70.

[Sptwoman]

Well the QV has arrived and looks to be quite complete. All the electrics work, seats, suspension, air con etc... The only disappointment is the speedo and odometer don't work :mad: Is there a common fault with these or is it a full investigation?

[strat6v]

Go on allen, get stuck in!!!

[chris.richard]

The only disappointment is the speedo and odometer don't work :mad: Is there a common fault with these or is it a full investigation?

Check the connections/unit at the sender on the diff. The electronics in the dash look impenetrable, and the sender is common to these functions. dash

[Sptwoman]

Does the sensor sit to the right hand side at the top of the housing, looking into the engine bay??