Front spoilers

[chris.richard]

Is this the sort of front spoiler as advertised by Hawk? If not, has anybody got a picture of one?
Picture courtesy of Dave Watson's gallery.

[mogul_x]

Chris,

I think that Hawk Cars' front spoiler is very similar. It might not reach up the sides of the wheel arch quite as far, but it has the same look.

I may have picture of one from Abingdon in 2001. I'll have to check.

While on the subject of pictures, I did finally get that roll of film developed that had the pictures of my rear bulkhead you requested. It's been ages, I know. If you still want / need to see them, let me know. I'll scan them in and post them here or e-mail them to you, if you like.

Sorry it took so long. Downside of not having a digital camera.:(

[guy mayers]

Gerry does or used to offer a spoiler very similar to the one shown. Peter Luxford fitted one to his car, round arch Gp4 with a Martini paint scheme. I'm sure someone will have a picture they can post, I'm going to have to invest in a new scanner! How effective it I can't comment on but it is very vunerable to kerb and potholes, I can't remember ever seeing Peters' undamaged. If my memory is correct it doesn't go as far up the arch as the one shown above, roughly up to the swage line on the side, hope this is of help.
Guy

[mogul_x]

From Guy's description, the picture that I think I have sounds like Peter Luxford's car.

I don't know if Gerry ever officially discontinued the front spoiler, but I know he's reluctant to sell them. I asked about one prior to ordering my car, and Gerry's reply was something to the effect of "you don't want one of those - they're NAFF."

I thought it looked all right, but I guess Gerry didn't agree. Wouldn't sell me one. He did insist I take a roof spoiler and tail spoiler, though. I guess he's very particular about the appearance of his customer's cars...:confused:

[rutthenut]

I've been chatting to Gerry about front spoilers and he may be able to offer the Giro d'Italia front end or spoiler at some point, but no commitment at all on if or when that may be...

[roger001]

Gerry will still supply front spoilers to order, (I have recently ordered one) I prefer the variety he makes to the wider type as fitted to Graham Scotts car, as it suits the stardale type body better than the wider variety.

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

I really really really really really want the Giro d'Italia nose & spoiler. I'd be willing to pre-order one if it would help convince Gerry to make them.

John B.

[Jeff Davison]

Here's a shot of a Strat with a spoiler found on the web

[Jeff Davison]

and another

[Jeff Davison]

One of Graham Scotts beastie

[Jeff Davison]

And another

[Jeff Davison]

And the Giro

[chris.richard]

The Giro is the most attractive, but still a bit low for rallying.

[Stephenos]

Originally posted by chris.richard
The Giro is the most attractive, but still a bit low for rallying.

Now I have to ask, why do you need a spoiler?
Is it strictly for aesthetics? Or, do you have a problem that you feel would be fixed by way of an aerodynamic device?
There are many different styles, each designed to produce a specific effect.
If you are experiencing understeer while cornering then the angled chin spoiler as shown in the first photo is probably what you want. It is designed primarily for downforce. Obviously this will add bite and aid in cornering but, at a price as it will generate more drag at higher speeds.
If however you are finding your car getting light and quirky at high speed then the "vertical curtain or wall" style shown in the last photo, (Giro) is what you need. It's designed to aid in high speed stability by routing air away from under the nose and around the front tires.
Funny, I've read so much about the Stratos being quirky and hard to drive. Supposedly prone to severe understeer. Yet I find no vintage photo's of cars in action with an angled chin spoiler.

[David May]

The lack of spoliers on most Stratos is exactly that - they are Rally cars. Not only would they they get knocked off on every hump, but at the (relatively) low rally speeds, they are mostly ineffective.
Only rare events (like the Targa Florio or Tour De France) used race circuits where an effective spoiler could be useful.

We are still talking 1970's technology here - you only have to see the desperation that caused the roof and boot spoilers to be added, to see how untested the aerodynamics were. Just as well probably - or it might have been born looking hideous!!

Dave May

[Stratos]

I've often wondered whether the roof and boot spoiler actually achieved any real aerodynamic effect.

The car does look much better with them.

[Stephenos]

Originally posted by David May

We are still talking 1970's technology here - you only have to see the desperation that caused the roof and boot spoilers to be added, to see how untested the aerodynamics were. Just as well probably - or it might have been born looking hideous!!

Dave May

Seventies technology? I think rear deck "duck tails" have been around since the days of Dr. Kahm (sp?). The roof wing seems like such a natural though. I'm surprised more manufactures haven't utilized it. And I'm sure there was at least some testing done to come up with the size and shape.

As for "looking hideous", you must mean like those abortions from the 80's. The Audi Quattro Sport and the MG6R4 quickly come to mind. Eeewww!

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Stephenos


Seventies technology? I think rear deck "duck tails" have been around since the days of Dr. Kahm (sp?). The roof wing seems like such a natural though. I'm surprised more manufactures haven't utilized it. And I'm sure there was at least some testing done to come up with the size and shape.

As for "looking hideous", you must mean like those abortions from the 80's. The Audi Quattro Sport and the MG6R4 quickly come to mind. Eeewww!

Sorry, but I love the 6R4. It's third on my list after the Stratos, then the 037.

[Stephenos]

Originally posted by David May
The lack of spoliers on most Stratos is exactly that - they are Rally cars. Not only would they they get knocked off on every hump, but at the (relatively) low rally speeds, they are mostly ineffective.
Dave May

Ya mean like this?
(Anyone know what magazine this came out of?)

[Stratos]

Originally posted by Stephenos


Ya mean like this?
(Anyone know what magazine this came out of?)

Rallysport?

[roger001]

Here is a pic of the Hawk spoiler in early stages of attachment.

[roger001]

and again

[Stephenos]

And how it looks right side up ;)

[roger001]

Why is it stuck to the ceiling!!!!:confused:

[chris.richard]

That's a hell of a mess you've made of the living room carpet! You'll be in trouble!:D

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by Stratos
I've often wondered whether the roof and boot spoiler actually achieved any real aerodynamic effect.



I read somewhere that the tail spoiler was for down-force, and the roof spoiler directed airflow down on to it; it also accelerated the flow over the louvres, dropping the pressure and helping suck air out of the engine bay. Sounds believable in theory.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by roger001
Here is a pic of the Hawk spoiler in early stages of attachment.

Can I get back down off the ceiling now? :confused:

[roger001]

Originally posted by chris.richard
That's a hell of a mess you've made of the living room carpet! You'll be in trouble!:D

That's the story of my life!

[rutthenut]

Having fitted a front spoiler, you might want to make the front panel removable, so that it will be much easier to load the car onto your trailer.

Pete Luxford has problems with grounding out his front spoiler, and he has set the front suspension onto a fairly high setting. With a low race-spec front setup, you will find it awkward to negotiate ramps and trailer loading. If you can take off the panel easily, then no problemo (I should think).

[roger001]

I'd thought of that - although am still mulling over as to the best way to do it.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by roger001
still mulling over as to the best way to do it.

The approach I have considered - but not implemented - is to modify the mounting brackets that are bolted to the inner sides of the front panelwork. This is for the Hawk brackets, don't know how the panels go together on the other cars.

Where the chassis has a top-hat style 'pin' that slides out and into the mounting brackets, the pin could be fixed in place using a split pin or similar. The brackets would need to be modified so that instead of having a protruding tube section (that normally goes over the pin), this would be cut away to leave a C-section that is open to the rear. A further piece of metal could be added that goes around this and extends to the rear, so that it would appear in an R-section of some sort when viewed from the side.

The flat part of the 'R' would be horizontal, or near-horizontal so that the panel could be dropped/rested on top of the chassis pin. The leg of the 'R' would extend below the pin, but not as far as the flat section, so you would be able to drop the panel down and then slide it backwards to engage the 'C' section onto the pin. This is assuming that you still have other body catches that would stop the panel from moving forwards again.

Not easy to describe like this, but you might get your own ideas from what I've put here. If you want a diagram, I could knock up something very primitive to put as a later reply.

Other alternatives would generally consist of various pins and R-clips, or pip-pins, onto which the bodywork would be fitted. My idea is to try and use the existing mounting mechanism for the Hawk bodywork, with some relatively simple mods. Well, simple if you have the ability to cut, bend and weld metal of this sort!

In fact, Gerry was going to make a pair of fabricated brackets of this type for me to try out. If they work, he could obviously produce a few more as 'quick-release' alternatives. But you can always try modifying those that you have already if that's cheaper or easier for you to do.

[roger001]

Great minds think alike I was considering a similar set up to what I think you are describing.

It makes sense to use what's already there with as little modification as possible.

The only snag I thought of ith the above set up is relocating the electrical junction blocks, which are at present inside the inner wing they would need relocating so they can be reached before removing the front section. possibly by exiting to the outside of the inner wing earlier although this exposes them to more water crud etc.

[colin artus]

I have a large splitter fitted to the front of my car which means that it wont open on the original front pivots. It uses horizontal pins mounted at the front.
I mounted the electrical connectors behind the rad on the aluminium side panels and they are accessed via the louvre panel
which is removable and fitted with dzus fasteners.

Colin

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by colin artus
I mounted the electrical connectors behind the rad ... they are accessed via the louvre panel which is removable and fitted with dzus fasteners.

This is the approach taken on the Tony Soper/Graham Scott car, although I do recall an incident where the louvre panel became partly detached at its front edge, swung back and broke the windscreen! It had extra fixings after that...

[chris.richard]

My front and rear electrics have been connected via the plug & sockets normally used for trailer tailboards / caravans - easily undone, waterproof, and the looks don't matter coz they're out of sight.

[Stephenos]

The "eye brow" type is another style of spoiler. As seen in this photo of the #7 Safari Stratos. This has been used successfully on such notables as the Lotus 49 and Chaparral Can Am cars. It's benefits are added down force with only slightly added drag. (And in this case, no threat of damage as they do not go right across.)

[chris.richard]

I don't suppose anybody has manufactured these recently?

Stratos anorak question:- Is this the only time a Stradale body was used in competition - I can't remember seeing anything other than Group 4 bodies.

[Stratos]

Stratos Anorak Answer:-

I don't think those are eye brow spoilers.

The Safari cars had mudflaps forward of the wheels, so I think what you are seeing in the picture above is the white bodyshell, then the dark area is the mudflap.

Also, I don't think that is a Stradale Stratos. I believe it's Munari on the 1977 Safari, and that car had round Group 4 arches.

The mud etc disguises much of the picture.

[mogul_x]

If you did want to put "eyebrow" spoilers on the front of a Stratos, might it be possible to modify one of the Hawk nose spoilers to suit? Trim the bottom edge back to increase ground clearance, remove the center portion beneath the radiator inlet, then extend the outboard edges to generate a little more downforce?

It's probably an expensive way to do it, but at least you've got something as a starting point, and the attachment to the body has already been worked out. The angle of attack might be a little steep, but the only way to really address that would be to make something up from scratch.

As for that photo - it does look like a Stradale, doesn't it? Either that, or the smallest set of square Gp.4 arches I've ever seen. It doesn't quite look like a round arch car - the "Alitalia" lettering over the wheel opening appears to be on a flatter surface than I'd expect on a round Gp.4 car. Maybe it's just an optical illusion.

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by Stratos
Stratos Anorak Answer:-

I don't think those are eye brow spoilers.

The Safari cars had mudflaps forward of the wheels, so I think what you are seeing in the picture above is the white bodyshell, then the dark area is the mudflap.

Also, I don't think that is a Stradale Stratos. I believe it's Munari on the 1977 Safari, and that car had round Group 4 arches.

The mud etc disguises much of the picture.

I've got the Kyosho 1/18 model of the car, and it is a Stradale. I've also got a Pirelli liveried round arch Gp.4 to compare.
I'll buy the mudflaps theory though, the angle of mounting on the model is too vertical for a spoiler.

Love your animation, Dave! It might find its way onto my work emails.:cool:

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by chris.richard
Stratos anorak question:- Is this the only time a Stradale body was used in competition - I can't remember seeing anything other than Group 4 bodies.
Now I'll answer it myself, since I've just had the books out! Stig Blomqvist's Pirelli sponsored entry on the 1978 Swedish was a stradale too.:p

[Stratos]

Chris,

You're right, and the proof was on the website all along:-

http://www.stratossupersite.com/78blomqvist-swe-stratos.jpg
http://www.stratossupersite.com/78blomqvist-swe-stratos2.jpg
http://www.stratossupersite.com/78blomqvist-swe-stratos-3.jpg


I know that after the original batch of Group 4 bodyshells got used up, the works team started converting Stradale bodyshells to Group 4. Presumabley on the events where they were using narrow rear tyres, ie Sweden and Safari, they must run them without the Group 4 arches.



Amazing! I'd never ever noticed this before.