Help again!!

[chris.richard]

I'm having trouble getting my alfa V6 transmission to fit together.
The block and engine mount/oil filter mount are from an automatic. The gearbox/differential is from a manual. The intermediate shaft is from a manual. The intermediate shaft fits the differential when off the engine. The intermediate shaft bearing fits the engine mount. BUT if I try to fit all three together, they don't! With the gearbox on the engine, when the shaft is sliding onto the splines, it is 5 mm too near the sump for the bearing to fit the housing in the engine mount. If I fit the shaft bearing in the housing first, and slide the gearbox/differential onto the splines, the gearbox is offset 5 mm away from its mountings. I hope this makes sense. The only explanation I have come up with is that the engine/oil filter mount that the intermediate shaft goes through is different from the auto to the manual versions. I haven't got a parts cd yet to look this up.
Can anybody explain, or tell me what I'm missing or doing wrong?:confused:

[kens]

Yes, the parts CD does list two different part numbers. I had heard that this part was required for a 12V conversion from automatic. Yet, I did not know which dimension was different. Also, heard that the 12V casting number was the same, the part had just been machined differently.

Perhaps one option would be to fabricate a spacer between block and support/carrier/filter housing. Tim Hancock might have a spare, timhancock@onetel.net.uk

Regards,
Ken Stevenson
Dallas, Texas

[kens]

Also, I just spoke with a friend that just finished mounting a setup identical to Chris Richards. It mounted. Yet, I put second thoughts into his head and he is going to scrutinize the two mounts for variation.

Telephoning an Alfa parts distributor would be insightful. The parts folks seem to have additional information that is not on the parts CD.

Ken

[chris.richard]

Thanks Ken!

Another good reason to source the whole setup from one donor!:mad:
Originally posted by kens
Perhaps one option would be to fabricate a spacer between block and support/carrier/filter housing.

It's the other way round - the bearing hole needs to be nearer the sump than it is - (a negative spacer?)

[kens]

I have a support in place from a manual and a support in hand from an automatic transmission. The carrier bearing surface is cast slightly oval prior to machining. This oval design is most evident looking at the three mounting holes on the transmission side of the support.

The manual transmission carrier support is machined with the holes closer to the sump.

Ken

[chris.richard]

They cost £380 new - I'll keep looking for a salvage one! Anybody out there got one?

[CorseChris]

Originally posted by chris.richard
They cost £380 new - I'll keep looking for a salvage one! Anybody out there got one?


Possibly - give me the critical dimensions you need (say, distance from bearing recess inner edge to block mounting face) and I'll have a look. It'll be a bare casting - no bearing. I can probably do a comparison between this spare I have and the one on my donor engine/box assembly I pulled out of the 164 (manual, 12v) a couple of months ago.

[chris.richard]

Thanks Chris, I'll post the dimensions. If I can get one from a 24v, I'd prefer it because it has the cooler sandwich plate and connections integral in the casting, but failing that a 12v might fit.

[chris.richard]

Looking from the waterpump end, the closest point of the bearing housing horizontally to the sump is 38.5mm on the automatic version. The manual one should be about 32mm or so.

PS Doh! just realised that's not the best measurement for an unmounted piece! If the castings are the same, it's the dimensionfrom the hole to the edge of the casting I should have measured.:rolleyes: I'll get that on Sunday.

[krobrock]

Hi all,
I am new to this forum. I am an alfista, but think I can lend a hand due to the nature of the problem here :)
Here is a picture of

http://alfalover.dhs.org/mount.jpg

Manual Transmission Engine mount, V6 24V Part #60562301

I tried to take the picture as square to the bracket as possible to properly illustrate the dimensions.

I actually just installed a 164 Super engine (into a 164 Super), converted from automatic to manual. I recycled the automatic bracket (and coupled it with the manual transmission intermediate shaft) and had no difficulty with alignment. Perhaps I am bending the shaft! (it does have a little play in it) I will have to check. I was dealing with a 24V engine, not a 12V, so there MAY be differences. 60562301 is the part number on the casting, although it does not show up in the parts CD.

Best luck,

[chris.richard]

That's interesting.
What was the manual gearbox from?

http://alfalover.dhs.org - is that "alfa lover", or "al fal over"?:D

[chris.richard]

My automatic bracket is 22mm from the bearing hole to the machined flat on the sump face. (along the red line in above diagram, but only as far as edge of casting.)

[CorseChris]

Chris,

Sorry - it's another auto one I am afraid.

(What is it with all these auto's???)

[krobrock]

The mount of which I posted a picture was a MANUAL transmission mount bracket, not an automatic. Since it was broken where the mount goes through the bracket, I used the automatic mount. It seemed to work fine for me. Wuold a picture of the back side of the mount bracket be more useful?


All the manual mounts are IN CARS, and all the auto mounts are in the trash pile, and hence to readily available to measure!!! He he.

My transmission was out of a 164S.

later,

Karl

[guy mayers]

Hi, I've been exchanging emails with James at james.ct@easynet.co.uk who is breaking an Alfa 164 which had an autobox that he intended to convert to a manual with a kit of parts he bought. I have the impression the donor was a 12v and that his car is a 24v. He's given up on the project now and has the parts for sale, engine is 182,000 mile young though but the gearbox kit may suit anyone who's bought an automatic, may even be able to swap the relevant parts and save a 164....... although that puts me out one fuel pump he's promised me....
Guy