Perseverance

[Matt No VAT]

It is with great pleasure that I announce that I have finally cracked the cooling problems with my car!! Oh at last I hear you sigh, but not as loud as the shout for joy that I let out the third time the fans cut in at 93 degrees and cooled the water temp down to about 80 degrees!

A combination of things at the bottom of it all.

At the Rad end, the Flow into the Rad was connected to the end furthest away from the rad switch that triggers the 2 cooling fans.

Problem two is that the 90 degree Samco Silicon hose/bend at the entrance to the spine (by the exhaust manifold) was kinked and thus restricted the volume of water that could flow through the pipe.

Next problem was the return from the throttlebody was blanked off rather than connected into the return on the expansion tank.

There was the flaky rad switch that needed to be replaced too.

And finally, I'm not sure if this had an effect, but I also blanked off the return from the old heater matrix which has now gone. Whether this affected the circulation I'm not sure.

[David May]

I suspect that the blanked off throttle-body return was the real villain. A lot of the air trapped in the heads gets out via that route.

Dave May

[Matt No VAT]

I did notice that there were bubbles being expelled into the expansion bottle. I put the lead light behind the bottle to see where the flow was coming in from.

Still all sorted now:D

[David May]

Hope you've got it all fixed now! I don't suppose you've tried running 150mph on a motorway for any distance yet!!

Dave M

[Matt No VAT]

LOLOL No not yet - At the moment there are still pipes drapped across the floor as I ended up running them outside the car while doing all the troubleshooting.

All I have to do is do the pipework so its inside the spine of car on a more permanent basis.

I'll leave the 150mph speed tests to an airfield day - I wouldn't want to loose my licence for a third time for speeding, now would I?? ;)

[David May]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt No VAT
[BAll I have to do is do the pipework so its inside the spine of car on a more permanent basis.

You make it all sound so easy! I sweated blood getting all my pipes neatly inside the chassis but away from exhausts and other undesireables! I lost count of all the Jubilee clips I used! Good luck!

Dave M

[Matt No VAT]

Its got to be easier than the cuts, burns, grazes and scalding that I've suffered over the weeks when trying to get this sorted.

But we love don't we?

.....

Don't we??

......

Please tell me its because we love it, otherwise I'm not sure why we do this sort of thing :D

I've had 2 weeks off work and gone back looking like I've forced both my forearms into a threshing machine!

[rutthenut]

Well done Matt - you got there at last!

And of course you and we all love it...

Are you also going to increase the size of the 20mm pipe that you mentioned? That won't help water flow overall, and it seems as though you are doing a lot on the pipework anyway.

I'd agree that the problem was most likely the blanked off throttle route, as that does involve circulation through the header tank that purges air bubbles from the system.

[Matt No VAT]

At the moment I have two 32mm ally pipes running up the spine and soon a third 15mm pipe also.

What I am concerned about is that where the pipes emerge behind the bulkhead, they go through the 90 degree bend but they are extremely close to the exhaust manifold. I have two layers of heatshield to protect the silicon bend sections. But it could be better.

I would feel happier if it were an all metal pipe solution, hence my thoughts on using 22mm copper pipes as I could then solder 90 degree copper bends in place, without having to remove the engine. By using this setup it would reduce the proximity of the bends from the exhaust manifold.

And I can't wait to get behind the wheel!

[David May]

I can't see any reason (apart from the weight) for not using copper fittings. I think I used a few bits around my heater matrix and have no obvious corrosion problems (yet!).
The really tight 90° bends may reduce maximum flow a bit but there are gentler bends availabe and if you want to be really neat you could hire a pipe-bender and do away with a lot of odd joints.

Dave M

[John]

Matt,
I know that you certainly could at one time obtain copper pipe in 32mm togrther with Yorkshire (pre-soldered) fittings including large radius elbows. Can't see any reason why this should not still be so.
Try a heating engineer who works on large scale boiler installations like schools.
, for supply.

[chris.richard]

Roger Donnan has copper pipes for the cooling in his Hawk, but I don't know what size.

[roger001]

I used 35mm copper throughout, which with a combisation of 90 and 45 degree bends is sufficiently flexible to avoid the exhaust etc 35mm is the biggest size that will fit through the centre spine.

[chris.richard]

I've got 35mm stainless pipes running up my spine ($5M man?):)
I'd like to avoid using silicon 90 degree bends at the exhaust manifold. Can anyone confirm my hunch that if I use copper soldered bends I'd run into problems of differential expansion of the two metals? What about compression fittings? There isn't much space in there, is there?

[guy mayers]

Hi, when the Alfa engine was dropped into the car 8 (?) years ago I had this same problem, I didn't want to use rubber hoses so close to the exhaust either. In the end I had Geoff Turton weld some really tight cast (?) stainless steel elbows onto the stainless pipes that run through the spine of my car. More tube was then welded to the other end of the elbow to form an L shaped pipe which moves the rubber hoses well away from the exhaust. Both main pipes through the spine can still be removed if necessary from the rear of the car although the exhaust centre section and box have to be removed. If anyone wants me to speak to Geoff to see if he has any of the SS elbows left drop me a line.
Guy

[rutthenut]

When building my car, I used ally pipes through the centre spine of the car. These had a very tight 90-degree bend at the rear end, made by cutting and welding on a 45-degree angle across the pipework (by Graham Bates). This led to a short straight section that could point up in the engine bay area to meet up with the pipework from the thermostat area.

The silicon hoses are a bit further from the exhaust this way, which is one of the concerns. The pipes can be entered into the spine from the rear of the car (with the exhaust off).

If you have connectors at the front of the pipes for heater hoses, then you will have to keep a straight section to the rear so you can insert the main pipes from the front of the car.

At the rear, one of the main things you want to do is get as tight a bend as possible (but still allowing good water flow) so that the pipes and hoses do not encroach on the exhaust manifold area. An extra heatshield could always be included around the pipes if you are concerned.

[chris.richard]

Elbow (Copper x Copper)



Certified to BS864-2
Manufactured under an ISO9002 Quality System
Suitable for use with copper tube to BS2871, tables W,X,Y and Z (hard), EN1060
Suitable for use with stainless steel tube to BS4127 and mild steel