ventilation hose

[pimms]

I use a Smiths heater fan but can't find the right hose to fit it to the heater matrix. Diameter of the fan outlet is 8,3 cm. Anyone an idea were to look or from which car :confused:

Thanks

[Chris J]

Do you mean one like this?:

http://moss-europe.co.uk/MossUK/ProductList.aspx?SubSubCategoryID=Sprite_USPMES019-A

[AndyR]

I used Holden for my heater and parts.
I bought the 4" dia hose, cut a few small slits along the hose at the connection end to produce a tight and tidy join when tightened with a large circlip. Unless you can find 3 1/4" duct hose !
Holden heater extras (http://www.holden.co.uk/viewproducts.asp?supergroup=&group=&groupname=Heaters%20&analysiscode=0210&pageno=1)

Andy

[strat6v]

Kit car shows are a good source for the ducting.

None on the calendar for a while though :( Try asking Catswhiskers where he got his from, i stole Mick's offcut while he wsn't looking :D

[pimms]

Do you mean one like this?:

http://moss-europe.co.uk/MossUK/ProductList.aspx?SubSubCategoryID=Sprite_USPMES019-A

I thinks so Chris, but the hose on the immage seems a bit short, i need about 60 cm? Here are some pics of what i need:

[pimms]

Kit car shows are a good source for the ducting.

None on the calendar for a while though :( Try asking Catswhiskers where he got his from, i stole Mick's offcut while he wsn't looking :D

Thanks Andy and John, unfortunately not to many Kitcars shows in Holland though, maybe someone else has a leftover??

Cheers

[AndyR]

Just realised your in Holland and !
Pop in to your local Opel dealer a 1993 Vauxhall cavalier uses just the hose you need as it's warm air intake.

Andy

[Sptwoman]

Been there and done it I think :rolleyes: I've got a Smith's 2 speed snail fan. I bought some 76mm ali hose and a number of connectors. If you like more info then shout.
Fan with 76mm O/S diameter plastic connector attached.

[Sptwoman]

Ali hose with flexi 76mm I/S diameter connector attached.

[Sptwoman]

And connected. The other end is an Andreas Mk2 box.

[pimms]

Yhanks Andy, will try that!

Allen, what is an Andreas MK2 box?? any pictures?

[chris.richard]

Andreas Schmoll, forum member. He has published his design of heater box - probably in the gallery, certainly in the newsletter cd I think.

[Sptwoman]

That's the one. Andreas used 50mm tube and a smaller fan. I've mod'd the design slightly and fitted a larger fan / tube. I'm also looking to mount the fan with the inlet facing the front rather than the inner wing with some kind of ducting. This should mean while on the move there's a flow of air through the system without the fan constantly on.

[Chris J]

I've got lots of bits of hose lying around Pim. I'll check to see what there is.

You're having the Smiths blower on the inner wing, like your first photo (Alitalia painted car)?

[Sptwoman]

Chris, With the blower mounted GP4 style, is there a natural flow of air through the system without the blower on when the car is in motion? I'm thinking with the side mounting, that if it's a mucky day, the screen may mist up unless the blower is in constant use!!! Having it forward facing it would allow some natural flow without the blower on.

[pimms]

I've got lots of bits of hose lying around Pim. I'll check to see what there is.

You're having the Smiths blower on the inner wing, like your first photo (Alitalia painted car)?

Yes thats the way i want to mount it, thanks for looking!

Cheers

[Chris J]

Pim

I've just been for a look at what I've got.

I remember making an adapter for the Smiths blower in the same way as Allen describes. I might still have it, actually.

I've got some 76mm I/D hose that I got from Europa, but it's grey not black. There's a piece 500m long, and another 860mm long. I'm pretty sure there's another piece somewhere.

I'll try and find all the parts of the blower I had, fit it together and take a photo so you can see?

[pimms]

Pim

I've just been for a look at what I've got.

I remember making an adapter for the Smiths blower in the same way as Allen describes. I might still have it, actually.

I've got some 76mm I/D hose that I got from Europa, but it's grey not black. There's a piece 500m long, and another 860mm long. I'm pretty sure there's another piece somewhere.

I'll try and find all the parts of the blower I had, fit it together and take a photo so you can see?

Thanks Chris that would be very helpfull!!!

[Chris J]

I've found it!

It's all coming back to me now.

I put a bead of mig weld around a 2.5" steel tube and machined it down in the lathe (that's why it has a wobbly edge here and there).

The grey hose with spiral wire inside actually fits inside the original connector (see first photo) but I think I found that it was too bulky and I couldn't get the spare wheel to fit in. I had to shift the motor round so that the motor fastener studs cleared the spare wheel tyre.

Blower is a die cast type in two halves bolted together.

[Chris J]

Here's a photo of the reducing part fitted. (O/D 2.5" or 64mm)

[Chris J]

and one of it not fitted.
The alluminium hose was a very tight fit, and I think I used something else in the end?
When I had the blower fastened to the inner wing and wired up and switched on, it seemed a bit weak. Although I've tested it since and it was really shifting some air. I never got to the bottom of what was wrong?

[Sptwoman]

I picked up my connectors and hose from an ebay store (http://stores.ebay.co.uk/REGALS-MOTORSPORT). A very helpful person.

[Sptwoman]

Pic of the Andreas MK2 heater in place...

[pimms]

Thanks Chris, I didn't think of that, gives me some more possibilities!
Allen, what heater matrix did you use in youre heater box??

Thanks.

[Sptwoman]

Pim, The matrix came off a Suzuki SJ413 ish... Andreas has all the details in his gallery. Search for heater......

[Chris J]

Pic of the Andreas MK2 heater in place...

Allen

I see you've got your wiper motor on the opposite side. Does the drive still go to the back of the wiper spindle? (like it would on most cars that have the motor fitted on the passenger side), and if so, have you had to alter something to make the wiper arm park in the right place?

[chris.richard]

There are articles in the newsletter cd about wiper parking

[Sptwoman]

Chris, It's a standard install but from the opposite side. The rod is installed to the back of the spindle. I've not got round to the park technical side as yet. There are a few articles in the forum re parking. I was also thinking of driving the spindle from the front if it needs reversing.

[pimms]

Pim

I've just been for a look at what I've got.

I remember making an adapter for the Smiths blower in the same way as Allen describes. I might still have it, actually.

I've got some 76mm I/D hose that I got from Europa, but it's grey not black. There's a piece 500m long, and another 860mm long. I'm pretty sure there's another piece somewhere.

I'll try and find all the parts of the blower I had, fit it together and take a photo so you can see?

Just found some cold air induction hose with 85mm id on e-bay, that should fit my fan without adaptor . Thanks for youre troubles!

[Sptwoman]

I was looking at the dash heater slider control and the associated water flow controller on the forum. It seems quiter straight forward until I talked to Chris Smith. Chris is experimenting with a Ford heater valve (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200069423479&rd=1&rd=1) to switch the heater on/off, which instead of stopping the flow of water around the heater system when shut off, it turns it around so allowing the thing to flow back to the head. He seems to think it will help overheating in the summer with the heater off. It appears it's either fully on or off... Cheap enough to try. Has anyone else looked at this option??

[pimms]

I was looking at the dash heater slider control and the associated water flow controller on the forum. It seems quiter straight forward until I talked to Chris Smith. Chris is experimenting with a Ford heater valve (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200069423479&rd=1&rd=1) to switch the heater on/off, which instead of stopping the flow of water around the heater system when shut off, it turns it around so allowing the thing to flow back to the head. He seems to think it will help overheating in the summer with the heater off. It appears it's either fully on or off... Cheap enough to try. Has anyone else looked at this option??

How about diverting the hot air coming out of the heater ? Instead of leading to the windscreen maybe to the front wheel arch outside :o

[Sptwoman]

Pim, I've probably confused you. By allowing the water to circulate around the valve and back to the head / engine, Chris is hoping to aid in engine cooling in the summer.

[pimms]

Pim, I've probably confused you. By allowing the water to circulate around the valve and back to the head / engine, Chris is hoping to aid in engine cooling in the summer.

Hi Allen,
Maybe i misunderstood, but as i understand the water then does not go through the heater matrix, so how does it aid the cooling?

What i meant was letting the water circulate through the matrix but divert the hot air coming from the matrix not to the windshield but somewhere else out of the car thus aiding the cooling. In some cars you can change the heat flow from the windshield to f.i. your feet. Of course in a Strato's its alreeady hot so maybe find a way to get it out of the car. Just an idea, like to hear youre oppinions :o

Cheers

[strat6v]

I think Chris would be moving the flow away from the heater matrix and diverting it through the radiator.

[guy mayers]

Looking at the picture of the valve on eBay I think the purpose is to bypass the matrix, this would keep the water flow from the heater outlet pipe on the block moving and reduce locased engine heating. The return pipe would be the usual one. Sounds like a good idea to me!
Guy

[Sptwoman]

Thanks Guy, That 's how Chris explained it!!!

[stratosphere]

Sorry for maybe asking stupid question but;

In my race days we normally totally omitted heater matrixes (water/coolant -filled) from car.
This helped us with some less weight (heater, tubes and not forget the circulating water) but the main benefit was somewhat better flow benefiting better total cooling.
On Alfa’s to smoothing up total water circulating flow, this did approx 5 degrees.
On Pantera’s it made even more.
We also ran without thermostat (less restrictions in flow, less cavitating causing air bubbles) and used a product called "Water Wetter" instead of glycol.

Actual cabin temperatures (on the low side) was never a problem as the temperature inside a race cabin is always high due to very hot engine and exhaust as well as no barriers in interior material.
For demisting purposes we used simple fans (much like the one pictured above) and sometimes we “preheated” that air by letting the air intake coming from the backside of the radiator.

As a Stratos is basically the same in not needing any actual supplementary heating besides the engine and coolant pipes heating and the only real need is a good fan for demisting purposes and for (some) cooling to cabin on hot summer days;
Is it a good idea to omit heater and has anyone already tried /done this?

Luigi

[chris.richard]

John Rutter doesn't have one.

[Sando]

Robbie Sando doesn't have one either :D
Never saw the need for one myself. Electric demister yes that's needed. (well twice in 3 years, but it did the trick)

I've put a swirl pot on my heater take off and return to bleed any air out of the system but keep the flow this works a treat.

Not sure about running without a Stat though. Especially a dual chamber type like in the Alfa V6. you'd have to blank off the middle somehow.

As I understand it IMHO you do need some pressure around the heads to stop localised boiling and steam pockets forming. The water wetter helps the water to make better contact and heat transfer, without the stat you'd negate the positive effect it would have.

The engine I bought had, had overheating problems. It had a new W. pump which would have solved it, (plastic vanes had gone...common problem) but they ommitted the stat after giving the engine the once over and it continued to overheat, so they took the engine out and sold it.
.........It doesn't overheat now or since I first started it up in the strat :) ........cos I put a Stat back in and use water wetter (and a decent Radiator) Thats the only difference. I thrash the nuts off it just as much as they did.

Works for me anyway.
As for a heater you've got one right behind your ears!

Bobster

[chris.richard]

I don't agree that the stat helps pressurise the cooling system in the engine - is that what your implying?

[Sando]

Hiya Yes.
Have you seen how much it moves??? - not much.
Drilling a 2mm hole will drop your temp a few degrees but taking out completely can cause havoc with what the system is designed to do. (especially the dual chamber type as coolant will just circulate around the head(s) and this was the first thing I sorted on the Kappa engine )

The back pressure of the stat is only what I've read but seems to make sense. just a few lbs of back pressure would raise the boiling point?
I must admit I've taken stats out completely before on other older engines to increase flow, but I could have been causing as much of a problem as I was solving.... most of the time the engine ran too cold anyway!!!!!

This is just what I've read two or three times since then. -
Guy Croft and AG Bell books don't recommend it. They know much more than I do!!

Rob

[pimms]

just a few lbs of back pressure would raise the boiling point?
Rob

Hi Rob,
I thought normally the radiator cap or the cap on the expension tank was meant to keep the system under pressure ( about 1,5 bar? ) :confused:
and raise the boiling point

[chris.richard]

Anybody remember the equation relating pressere and boiling point?
PV=nRT must be involved somewhere.

[stratosphere]

Sandos remarks about thermostats are very true and need consideration.

IF youre going to experiment with thermostats you will have to measure temperature in one way or the other (nowadays I use infrared thermometers to check what happens) on all involved components (heads, (the engines :) ) block, hoses, etc.

When I said I omited thermostats I didn't mention that I use a washer (or actually a swirl "thing") in place of the thermostat
Adjusting the cooling effect, by adjusting the wings (or drill holes) on the swirl thing until desired result.

But nowadays I do belive (cooling) systems are much more optimized which probably means that the latest 24V engines are at its best with the thermostat in place.
But it doesn't hurt to check (if needed) if one can optimize even more for hot track days.
(Best is if someone else already have done this and you will not need to waste the time :D )

Remember also that omitting thermostat will lead to that engine takes (much) longer to heat up!
On race cars that is sometimes solved by connecting race engine to haulers cooling system with quick disconectors.
Not until race engine is hot you will start it!

Luigi

[Sando]

Hiya
Sorry I perhaps didn't make myself clear, of course Rad cap is what holds the overall system pressure. (and another tip - Peugeot 406 cap is a high pressure cap and readily available for a quarter of the price of a Stant race cap)

I'm meaning the pressure in the block between the pump and the stat. :)

When revving the water pump will produce varing amounts of pressure, from what I remember this can be as much as 30PSI at full chat against a thermostat and this stops localised boiling around the combustion chamber. You still need flow, but you also need pressure. As Luigi says this is a very fine balance, with rad and pipe size all adding to the overall combination. I'll dig out one of Graham Bells books tonight as it was very well explained in there and what convinced me. I think it was the Modern Engine Tuning book.


It was....... Page 202 and 204.... " 4-6000 RPM produces a pressure head of around 30-40PSI in the block and head .......This pressure packs packs coolant in tight around the top of the cylinders and around the combustion chambers.........without the thermostat restricting flow out of the head water pressure within the jacket falls allowing the formation of air pockets....the end result is overheated combustion chambers and detonation"

cheers
Rob :)

[pimms]

Just found some cold air induction hose with 85mm id on e-bay, that should fit my fan without adaptor . Thanks for youre troubles!

Here's the hose fitted to the Smiths fan and 308 heater matrix. Hose is from Venair via an e-bay shop.

[Chris J]

'Just a reminder,

I've still got the same type of 308 matrix for sale:
http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3356

I've also got a similar Smiths blower to the one in Pim's photo which I can throw in at no extra cost.