Hawk fuel tanks sender

[Chris J]

Can anyone tell me what type of sender a Hawk petrol tank should have fitted?

My current car doesn't seem to have one!

[guy mayers]

It's a long dip tube type that Gerry supplies. The offside tank should have a threaded plate taking 5 bolts to secure it. Hope that helps!
Guy

[Chris J]

The offside tank should have a threaded plate taking 5 bolts to secure it.

Thanks Guy. Neither tank has the threaded plate.

Another problem, and more expense?! Why didn't I buy a Lotus Elise?

[Sptwoman]

Chris, I've got the same issue, no holes. This is because I've got a mix of old / new tanks. I've got the sender and it appears cutting a hole in the full size tank and reinforcing it is the simplest resolution to me.

[Chris J]

Allen

I know that one of the tanks on my car was replaced too, because it split on a rally stage. So yes, it's a similar situation. The thing is, you don't want to weld anything on a used fuel tank. It's no good just emptying the petrol out and thinking that's safe enough? The fumes are worse than the fuel.

[SUSIT]

Allen

I know that one of the tanks on my car was replaced too, because it split on a rally stage. So yes, it's a similar situation. The thing is, you don't want to weld anything on a used fuel tank. It's no good just emptying the petrol out and thinking that's safe enough? The fumes are worse than the fuel.

Chris,
Do you not have a connection to Ralloy? wont cost that much to make a new one. Sando had his used tanks cut and welded plus foam filled via Chris Smith for a reasonable cost.
I had a tank made by SM Engineering, its a really akward shape, for a very reasonable amount. :D

Stephen

[guy mayers]

It's no good just emptying the petrol out and thinking that's safe enough? The fumes are worse than the fuel.

If you ever have to work on an old fuel tank here's a tip i got from Geoff Turton who does this all the time and hasn't blown up yet!

Put a rag around your exhaust pipe and then slide the filler neck over it until you get a good seal. Run the engine for 10 minutes and it'll be free of dangerous fumes.

Guy

[Chris J]

Do you not have a connection to Ralloy?

Yes he's just walked past at the top of the landing! Paying customers are what Ralloy wants, family members wanting jobs doing on the cheap are pests! 'Time's money' and all that.

That's a hell of tank you've got there Mr. Susit?!

Guy, that's the third different used tank welding solution I've been given, thanks for the idea.

[SUSIT]

Yes he's just walked past at the top of the landing! Paying customers are what Ralloy wants, family members wanting jobs doing on the cheap are pests! 'Time's money' and all that.

That's a hell of tank you've got there Mr. Susit?!




Aye talented brothers can be a real pain :D

Another tank pic for any Allora owners thinking of renewing fuel tanks

[Chris J]

Aye talented brothers can be a real pain

I am joking, I don't do so bad really.

What's the capacity of your custom tank? You've probably already said?

[SUSIT]

I am joking, I don't do so bad really.

What's the capacity of your custom tank? You've probably already said?



So we can expect your car in ralloy colours then? : :)

difficult to calculate as its got so many shapes but I caculated 56.5 litres. The chap that did the deed worked it out at close to 60L. Enough for the Tour of Mull. Have not allowed for the foam inside :rolleyes: Not sure what % of space it takes up! anyone know :confused:

[Sptwoman]

I was looking into foam for existing tanks (Mine) and came across this thread. http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81273 Not sure how accurate it is but they mention 10% lost capacity.
It also mentions the use of foam cubes as an alternative!! Quote
Merlin motorsport (01249-782 101) sell smallish cubes of the stuff.
The advantage of small cubes is you can stuff them down the filler.

[chris.richard]

Not sure what % of space it takes up! anyone know :confused:

It's 2.5% ;)

[chris.richard]

Merlin motorsport (01249-782 101) sell smallish cubes of the stuff.
The advantage of small cubes is you can stuff them down the filler.

I've just received one of these cubes to see what it's like; also an offcut from Car builder Solutions. They are very compressible, contrary to what they told me. The 80mm can compress down to 15mm - the Hawk tanks are 300 x 270 (ish) x 600 tall, so I reckon that I can stuff a single shaped block in through the filler. I'm trying the manufacturers agents in the UK to get a price for a block without the middleman markup. Merlin only do the cubes, CBS cut to custom shapes. I own scissors :) . The Merlin stuff is Safecrest IV from Crestfoam. Military spec stuff.
I'm a bit sceptical about filling a tank with cubes - there'll be a lot of spaces left if it's done through the filler.

[SUSIT]

Chris,
Sell your tanks and get new ones made with foam fitted. I found a company that will cut it too shape but only sell to trade. I can get round that one but there was a min order of 250 pounds.
My tank cost £225 delivered but I supplied the foam

[SUSIT]

It's 2.5% ;)


Thanks Chris,
Whats 2.5% of 56.5 litres then :D

[chris.richard]

Thanks Chris,
Whats 2.5% of 56.5 litres then :D
Use your own fingers :p

VDO dip tube senders here (http://www.furneauxriddall.com/shop/acatalog/Dip_Pipe_Senders.html)
Quotes 80mm pcd fitting - Mine have an irregular distribution about the circle IIRC

[Sptwoman]

Chris, Can you let me know how you get on with your foam solution / suppliers as it may save me some leg work?

[chris.richard]

Chris, Can you let me know how you get on with your foam solution / suppliers as it may save me some leg work?
Sure will, good buddy!

[chris.richard]

Guy, that's the third different used tank welding solution I've been given, thanks for the idea.

And the first two were?

[SUSIT]

Use your own fingers :p



:D :D :D :D

[Sando]

Hi Guys
2.5-10% - I would say it's up nearer 10%.
I've noticed the difference, I can't fill up with as much as I used too and the Hawk tanks stayed the same size (both sides).

Before you do anything else Chris, try giving Chris Smith a ring. Even with a courier delivery both ways I would expect it will be less than the price you could get the foam for. You could also have breathers / outlets or baffles added or altered for very little extra. I shopped around for ages looking at getting it done myself and Chris got it done for about half of what I thought it was going to cost. (and that was including getting a swirlpot made for the heater take off too!)

cheers
Rob

[chris.richard]

Type IV

Property
Specification
T15M

Color
Dark Blue
Dark Blue

Density range (lbs/ft³)
1.20 to 1.45
1.25-1.40

Porosity (Pores per inch)
8-18
14

Air pressure drop
(in. wg.)
0.140-0.230
0.20

Tensile strength (psi)
10 min
19

Ultimate elongation (percent)
100 min
170

Tear resistance (psi)
3 min
4.0

Constant deflection compression set (percent)
30 max
15

Compression load deflection at 25% (psi)
0.35 min
0.55

Compression load deflection at 65% (psi)
0.60 min
0.90

Fuel displacement (volume percent)
2.5 max
<1.0



I rest my case!

[Chris J]

And the first two were?

'put the tank on the end of a steam pipe at work for two days before
welding worked O/K...

...the other way I have been told about is to fill the
tank with argon or another inert gas no oxygen for the fumes to burn with.

[chris.richard]

Chris, Can you let me know how you get on with your foam solution / suppliers as it may save me some leg work?

Well, it's plan B then! Not even a gynaecologist could get that in in one piece. :(

Plan B is to slice the shaped block into smaller bits - vertical or horizontal? Hmm..

[marcoos_1]

When we made up custom racing-bike tanks made for the Isle of Mann, we used a material called 'Explosafe' for the foam inside. Worked brilliantly as it was simply pushed through the neck of the tank and it also acted as a baffle for us. You could simply buy it in chunks.

I'll try to find our supplier.

Tip on clearing fumes is correct and a fool-proof way of doing it. Shove it over the exhaust pipe for ten mins.......no problem to work on it after that.

M.

[Sando]

[QUOTE=chris.richard]Well, it's plan B then! Not even a gynaecologist could get that in in one piece. :(
[QUOTE]

.....I rest my case... with a smile! :p :D :D

Hope it all goes well Chris. :)
Bobster

[Sptwoman]

As stated earlier, are the foam cubes an alternative in this case???

[chris.richard]

Yes they are, butmy feeling is that it would be very difficult to get decent even packing with them in such an odd shaped tank, which is why I'm starting by cutting the correct shaped block into 4 or 5 bits and seeing if I can get that in. I suspect that buying a big block and cutting it up may be cheaper than lots of little cubes that someone else has cut up, but I haven't done the sums. I also have lots of offcuts that could be cut into cubes if there's a market... ;)
It may be that I end up cutting it all up into 8cm cubes . :rolleyes:

[Steve Strain]

Hi Guys

I used foam blocks cut to fit the shape of the tanks perfectly like the picture above. To get them inside the passenger side tank I cut out the panel that faces downwards (that you cannot see) and had it rewelded. When fitting the V6 I had to cut the drivers side tank anyway so included the foam at that stage.

A BIG tip if you are fitting foam.
Cut a neat round cylinder shaped hole into the foam block where the petrol bowser/filler goes into the tank. It doesnt have to be deep but sufficient to allow the fuel to disperse quickly when filling. It will otherwise take ages to fill the tanks with the foam packed up to the bottom of the filler neck.

I unfortunately had to cut into the foam afterwards and the result was a bit messy. To make it look cool (again) I drilled a pattern of holes into two pieces of alloy tube and inserted them down the necks of the tanks.
Look like they were meant to be there.

I hope this helps

Steve

[chris.richard]

Tanks now stuffed! :)
I did it through the filler cap - the tank with the dip tube is easier coz you've got two holes. I cut the shaped block into smaller bits and tried to re-assemble them in the tank, which is fine for the first two or three bits, then the rest really has to be done with small cubes. This took about 8 hours work - in retrospect it would be easier to cut a panel out of the tank, put the whole block in, then weld it back together. :rolleyes: It took a lump hammer and a 1/2" drive extension to hammer the compressed foam down the fillers when using large blocks! Amazing how solid compressed foam is!

Next time..... :(