Interesting thread and a good read...

[Jeff Davison]

about our "replicas" on the US based Ferrari Chat forum:

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=112962



JD

[Swamprat33]

Hi Jeff, good to hear from you again.

That video footage on the Ferrari forum was from the AutoItalia Autumn 2006 meeting at Gaydon last weekend.

We had 10 or 11 cars at the event. There was also 1 original red Stradale at the show.

Cheers

Tim

[Bob]

Wonder who "Stratos" is? :D

[chris.richard]

I had to go and check too.

[tryphon]

Wonder who "Stratos" is? :D

It's me you fool ;)

[ashsimmonds]

good thread huh? :)

[Swamprat33]

I was right, I win, I win :D

Thought it was you Tryphon.

Tim

[Bob]

I knew that - it was another of my famous tongue in cheek moments! ;)

[John]

Wow! They pay 250 euros an hour in Tryphons local McD's!
Tryphon, any chance of getting me a job there?

[tryphon]

Do the math:
Price of kit + Price of bits needed to finish + time you spend building (the same time worked at McDonalds @ 10£ per hour) = Not far from an original's price

Add to that depreciation, you rathrer get appreciation with the original and you're there.

[SUSIT]

Maybe but we might all end up scarred to drive them, And I would like to know what MacDonalds pays £10 hr, try £5.50 and then you pay tax and NI so it becomes £4.50
Also its not as much fun as building your own and lastly there are more of us than there are of you.
Interesting comments you make on the other site beats me how you say you like replicas.
Can I ask what moulds your Grp four rear end came from?

[tryphon]

Maybe but we might all end up scarred to drive them, And I would like to know what MacDonalds pays £10 hr, try £5.50 and then you pay tax and NI so it becomes £4.50
Also its not as much fun as building your own and lastly there are more of us than there are of you.
Interesting comments you make on the other site beats me how you say you like replicas.
Can I ask what moulds your Grp four rear end came from?

Being you usual agressive self for a change I see.

Anyways on to your questions:
McDonalds over here pays quite a bit more thant 10£, closer to 15£. Should you choose another activity allow me to suggest plumber, attendant, waitor or anything you feel more inclined to do.

You could unbuild and rebuild your original, restore it, see how it's made for the same amount of fun, probably even more.

I do like replicas and I consider them for exactly what they are. If you own a replica you like the Stratos and consequently I like you.

My Group 4 moulds were made of a factory Pirelli cars. I had to personally use sandpaper to remove the LANCIA PIRELLI molded off the original rear spoiler to my own.

Catch you later.

[SUSIT]

Being you usual agressive self for a change I see.

Anyways on to your questions:
McDonalds over here pays quite a bit more thant 10£, closer to 15£. Should you choose another activity allow me to suggest plumber, attendant, waitor or anything you feel more inclined to do.

You could unbuild and rebuild your original, restore it, see how it's made for the same amount of fun, probably even more.

I do like replicas and I consider them for exactly what they are. If you own a replica you like the Stratos and consequently I like you.

My Group 4 moulds were made of a factory Pirelli cars. I had to personally use sandpaper to remove the LANCIA PIRELLI molded off the original rear spoiler to my own.

Catch you later.

I blame my parents, no no its a height thing (please dont ask) Actually I dont see myself as aggresive or so my shrink says

Dont think the swiss would have me

Moulds of an original make them replicas in my mind

come to think of it were Hawks moulds not taken from an original as well
oh I dont know its all so confusing to me,
got to go got a rally to do Sat and a rplica evo to get running bye bye

[tryphon]

All Stratos skins were replicated off some mould, hence they're all replicas in your view.
99% of ex-factory cars on the planet use modern skins, old fiber ones being too fragile due to age.

[mogul_x]

McDonalds over here pays quite a bit more thant 10£, closer to 15£.

Holy moley! That's over $58,000 a year!! :eek: It took me 5 years of college and 10 years as a mechanical engineer before I made that much...

are you serious? If so, I should really consider another line of work.

[tryphon]

Salaries in Switzerland are notoriously the highest in Europe. A supermarket cashier makes at least 1500£ a month. However you are missing the point:
How many hours you have to spend to source parts and build a replica. Same amount of paid hours in some basic occupation brings back what? Add to price of kit and price of parts and let me know what it amounts to.

[catswhiskers]

[QUOTE=tryphon]How many hours you have to spend to source parts and build a replica.QUOTE]

Actually, I worked it out at 375 hours. Certainly less than 400. :D
My mother says I'm always in a hurry, I was even born prematurely. :rolleyes:

Mick

[tryphon]

Actually, I worked it out at 375 hours. Certainly less than 400. :D
My mother says I'm always in a hurry, I was even born prematurely. :rolleyes:

Mick

If that includes the time you spent looking for parts, the painting, ..., then please do the math and let me know.
When was your car completed?
What was the average Stradale price at the time? (I can answer that)

[mogul_x]

I worked out the cost of my kit, plus all of the purchased parts and paint at about $40,000. Assuming 1000 hours assembly (probably in the ballpark for a Hawk) at $30/hr (more than I make, but less than the hourly rate at the local body shop), that works out to a total of $70,000.

Most of the Stratos I have seen for sale in the US have been over $100,000. I have seen one offered at $55,000, but it needed a full restoration, which would probably be more than 1000 hours. Either way, the replica is less expensive.

I do appreciate your point, though. A real one will appreciate, so it's a much better return on the investment. Just wish I had pockets deep enough to afford to buy into that club! :D

[catswhiskers]

This is an interesting one Tryphon,

I'll do the maths like this (if I understand the principle)

Average garage charge out rate around here is around £25-£30 per hour, so 375 hours @ £30 = £11250.
All parts for the car including donor, paint, decals etc. came to a few pound under £22000

Kit was delivered to me with everything I needed for the build in December 2004. (The only donor parts I used were from the Alfa, engine, 'box, calipers & hubs) Everything else was sourced new hence very little time was spent on sourcing.
Car was finished and registered in September 2005.

So in theory, my car stands me at approx. £33250.

What about a 'real one'.
Bearing in mind that it's a group 4 car not a stradale, how does that compare to converted stradale or even group 4 cars? :confused:

Not that I would ever dare drive a real one like I do mine anyway, just a bit of fun and idle curiosity, dont you think. :)


Mick

[chris.richard]

So in theory, my car stands me at approx. £33250.


I can't believe you could find someone to build you one for that though.

[catswhiskers]

Well I dont know.

I would happily build another one if someone would pay me £30 per hour for my labour. :) Just depends on the level of customer specification doesn't it. Thats where cost can run away. :eek:

Mick

[tryphon]

....
So in theory, my car stands me at approx. £33250.

What about a 'real one'.
Bearing in mind that it's a group 4 car not a stradale, how does that compare to converted stradale or even group 4 cars? :confused:

Not that I would ever dare drive a real one like I do mine anyway, just a bit of fun and idle curiosity, dont you think. :)


Mick

Well not too far off. See also the other answers in this thread. In 2004 you could have a Stradale in Italy for 60-70K euros.

There is another confusion people make, often here too.

A Group 4 car does not consist of a wider body. ALL suspension components are different, ALL gearbox components are different. Brakes are different, instruments are different, in short everything is different except the chassis which is very slightly modified.

[SUSIT]

Well not too far off. See also the other answers in this thread. In 2004 you could have a Stradale in Italy for 60-70K euros.

There is another confusion people make, often here too.

A Group 4 car does not consist of a wider body. ALL suspension components are different, ALL gearbox components are different. Brakes are different, instruments are different, in short everything is different except the chassis which is very slightly modified.

How about detailing the differences particularly in the suspension components, I appreciate spring rates and damper rates will be different but are they different dimensions and mountings? Are the chassis mounting points moved and if so where and by how much?
Please and I will be non aggressive for a while :)

[tryphon]

I suggest opening a new thread for this discussion. Check the main forum.

[Sptwoman]

Maybe the new thread should be entitled "For anorack's only". To be honest, it appears to me that Tryphon's just got a posher rep that "us" :rolleyes: If I wanted a real GP4 warts and all I'd buy a REAL one............ :D

[Swamprat33]

Here is my two pennies worth.

I did not build my car. I bought it for a bargain price considering the amount of time and money that was put into it's creation.

I always loved the stratos, but realistically know that i could not afford to buy or keep a real one. £18k vs £80k or there abouts. With luck, my car will keep its value, unlike the Alfas i used to drive.

I would love to be able to afford a real Stradale, but I would still want a replica to play in. I am sure all of us replica owners get more enjoyment from driving our REPLICAS than most original owners do. Yes, i still get worried about damaging it, but i am sure i would not do half the events i do if i had an original Stradale.

The replicas in many ways are better than the original cars, and are definately easier and cheaper to maintain. Alfa 164 engines are not in the same league as a Ferrari V6, but are a reasonable alternative and are cheap as chips in comparison.

As far as I am concerned, an original Stradale converted to a Grp4 car nowadays is still a replica, even if it has been made from original parts.

I know that a lot of the Grp4 cars around today were created from converted Stradales many years ago, but doing that sort of thing nowadays seems almost barbaric to me.
However, I know that a certain Swiss car is likely to be one of the best Grp4 cars around when it is completed and I would dearly like to see it and appreciate it as a thing of the utmost beauty.

Everyone hear loves the Stratos, no matter what sort, real or replica.

Long live the Stratos :)

Tim