Future of Rallying

[Clarkson]

I guess like me we love rallying (in my case the older stuff till the FIA started to fiddle!!)

I would really like every bodies opinion on where they would like to see the WRC going in the future? Would ppl like to see the return of the group B cars? Or specially built car intended just for rallying and the holomogation i.e. Lancia Stratos, RS200?

Safety has become a major issue too and what would you think to having no co-driver or sitting them behind the driver in a tandem set-up?

Any ideas would be very welcome.

cheers in advance

Ps the car is taking way too much time for my liking!! Although the engine is finaly finished but sat on the garage floor!! :mad:

[mogul_x]

My personal preference would be for a return to homologation specials. The current crop of WRC cars are fun to watch in competition, but the machines themselves aren't exotic enough for my tastes. I prefer mid-engined, low slung coupes to mass produced econoboxes. More Stratos or 037 Rally, and less Delta S4.

I'd like to see the technical specifications along the lines of a "Group B light". Four wheel drive, any engine configuration, turbo or supercharging (or both!), but a cap on power similar to current WRC regs. I would, however, restrict tranmissions to true manual gearboxes. Sequential or H-gate shifters would be permitted, but none of this electro-hydraulic automanual stuff that's so expensive and unreliable in the current formula. Maybe allow a return to active suspensions, to give the engineers something to keep them busy.

I'd set the homologation number much higher than in the past. Maybe 7500 units a year or more, to hopefully ensure that the production version of the car will be something that anybody could aspire to owning.

As for seating position, I think I'd stick with the traditional side-by-side setup, with a co-driver. Navigators are already having difficulty seeing out of the cars with the low seating position in the WRC, and I can't imagine that their visibility would improve sitting behind the driver. Besides, in a mid engined car, tandem seating would result in an unacceptably long wheelbase.

[catswhiskers]

Well I guess this is a thread that will bring out very wide and diverse opinions, but hope it wont result in 'heated exchanges' after all, we must respect each others thoughts.
A very interesting subject, nevertheless.
From my point of view, I still look back on the 'good old Group B' days with fond memories but have to admit, things were getting a 'bit' out of hand with the power figures. :eek:
I tend to feel that the more the major manufacturers pour into car development the end result is 2 fold.
1, the accidents get bigger (mercifully without too many serious injuries) and
2, the spectacle becomes less interesting, not only the action but the political backbiting and protesting.
The same could also be said for formula 1 too but thats a different story.
As for rallying without a co-driver, we already have that, it's called racing!
Surely the whole idea of rallying is 2 people working together in a vehicle, to cover a pre-determined route in the most efficient manner.
The WRC seems to have lost the plot a bit (again, in my opinion), why do the competitors need 'Ice crews' to cover the stages to tell them what the conditions are like????? They no longer like rallying through the night, or even in the dark in some cases, the events become shorter, the stages become re-used many times. Typical example, the 'RAC rally' used to run for 4 or 5 days, through the night all round 'Britain' Now we effectively have 3 loops of the welsh forests.. Whats that all about???
I actually quit rallying in the mid 80's, mainly due to cost. My preference was road rallies as I found this put the emphasis more on the crew to work together as a team. (and with no outside support) At that point in time, the RAC re-wrote the rules for road rallying to prevent the use of full blown 'road racing cars' and also banned the use of Targa timing which made it extremely competitive. This change did make a lot of sense but, like all rules, they are open to different interpretations. I've recently come out of 'retirement' to do the 'Drystone' road rally in Derbyshire and was amazed to see Mitsubishi EVO's and Imprezza's out competing. :confused:
I honestly dont think there is an answer. I think 4 wheel drive has a lot to answer for but, so have many other things.
It seems that the biggest challenge in current rallying development budgets is not how to make the cars go faster but how to return the sport to the fun and good humoured entertainment that is sadly lacking. Somehow, I think it's an impossible goal. :(

Next.

Mick

[Chris J]

I'm with Mick as far as road rallying being tough. Road rallying was usually where all the top international co-drivers had their roots and learned their trade.

WRC cars are very complex and expensive these days. So much so that they make group B cars (which are still thought by so many as being peerless) look like old tractors. I'd rather the cars were closer to a production car, in the same way they were in the late 1960s.

What I'd like to see is a return to some sort of endurance for both the cars and crews. I remember years ago seeing Russell Brookes cat napping as his co-driver drove up to the start of the Boltby stage of the Mintex in the early hours of the morning. That's what caught my imagination back then, the fact that the top crews were really being tested to be able to keep driving flat out in a challenging situation (in the dark, bad weather, no sleep etc).

[tryphon]

I think that in the future rallying will take place in stadiums in the form of what we now call super special stages. Marketing and financeers like the idea and so does the FIA.
Do I like it?
Absolutely not.
Do I think that we will get back the wonderful events of old with thousends of miles run in the rough by night?
Absolutely not.

There is no point discussing what kind of car will take part in rallying when the trends are as ominous for the sport as they are right now.

Sorry for the pessimism...

[catswhiskers]

Well Tryphon,
I knew one day we would see eye to eye. I concur with your thoughts and fear for the sport in the future.
Come to think of it, the true problem is just the definition, It's not a sport any more it's a business. :(

Mick

[Jcosta]

Have you ever seen a WRC on tarmac? In the last Catalonia Rally I finally sleep near the road special stage. Zero sideaway in three days. The future is very, very depressing. The WRC now is only a business for the FIA, doesn't matter anything else but the money. The netx step: Montecarlo, two special stages, in August and only 1600 C.C diesel front whell drive cars ?

[Chris J]

It's obvious I know, but this why the interest in historic cars and rallies is so great, especially these days? 'Nothing wrong with that in itself, but the modern scene should capture the attention to a degree? More than it does at the moment at any rate?

[Sando]

More noise and rear wheel drive only is what I'd like to see and hear. :D
Somehow I don't think it will happen though.... :mad:

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

You guys in the EU think you have it bad - lol - you should try being a rally fan here in the states. The nearest event to me is a club rally that sometimes runs once a year. It's about a 7 hour drive to get there and watch 20 cars play in the dirt. I had a really good time but it frustrates me that rally here is such a mess.

I've thought a lot about what needs to happen to make Rally successful over here. I think I have a pretty good idea actually... but it'll never happen. All the rally big-wigs here want to make rallying in the USA just like rally in Europe but the legal & liability issues alone make that just impossible. They're unwilling to make the changes needed for rally to be successful here because to them that means it wouldn't be rally anymore. As much as I love it, IMHO rally will just continue to be an obscure, expensive hobby for rich guys... at least until someone has an off that costs an insurance company a lot of money (death/wildfire/chemical spill/etc.).

Just my .02

John B.

[chris.richard]

The purpose of the MSA (in the UK) and the FIA should be to provide the administrative structure and safety framework to enable their constituents to safely take part in motorsport in whatever events/vehicles they wish. They don't appear to see this and prefer to dictate that we must compete in whatever vehicles the automotive industry currently wish to sell. Hence the rise in historic events and cars. If they go too far, illegal events will proliferate, and rival bodies will be established. Bah Humbug! :mad: And it's nowhere near Christmas yet!
Now I sound like an anarchist! :eek:

[tryphon]

Hence the rise in historic events and cars.
Most of the historical rallying must be FIA backed/approved. Cars fall into FIA categories and their qualification to take part is delivered by the FIA (Bernie in fact) for a substantial amount of money. The same applies for the potential driver who wishes to take part in such events.


If they go too far, illegal events will proliferate, and rival bodies will be established. Bah Humbug! :mad: And it's nowhere near Christmas yet!
Now I sound like an anarchist!
These events wouldn't be illegal, just not FIA approved.