Allora Stratos Advice

[l3hou]

Hi folks

Who can tell me all about an ALLORA Stratos replica? It's on a "Q" plate but all the parts came from a "W" Lancia Beta.

Thanks in advance!

I don't really know what I've let myself in for, but hey ho - a winter project

cheers

J-P

[John]

J-P,
What do you want to know?
The Allora is the Stratos replica fore-runner of the current Corse models. It was made by Handmade cars who I believe made about 15 examples before the company folded. This was around 1985. I have a few articles from the magazines which did direct comparisons between the Allora and the Transformer (Now Hawk) at the time they were both "new models". After Handmade cars folded the project was bought by Steve Greenwood and re-engineered (very competently) into the Corse models which have evolved through different ownerships into the current Napiersport product.
Several Alloras survive to the present day, and most have lived a long and successful life.
Tell us more about what you have acquired.

[l3hou]

Hi

It's got a beta engine and uprated 124 front brakes. I collect it next week so know didly squat at the moment. I don't even have pictures. It has the louvred rear screen, gp 4 panels and so on.

I'm looking at is as a rebuild project. It needs some GRP starring taking out - which is not too bad. Then the body is "all there". Interior is shabby, but that's not so bad to fix.

One thing is the "Q" plate. The owner has the date of manufacture of the body and chassis with invoice from Handmade. He bought a 1980 Beta as a donor car. I guess this meant the "Q" plate. Is there a satisfactory way of getting the car reregistered without the "Q" but with AFAIK a "W" reg?

I'd be interested in the article and the info.

If the CAE parts/mounts etc can be used, this would be good to know. I like the sound (in more ways than one) of the Alfa V6

All fun and games to come I guess!

[strat6v]

Nice one J P! :cool:

I'm not that sure about the registration process but at one time if you were given a 'Q' plate, then it would stay with the vehicle and couldn't be transfered.
If i remember rightly, the only real criticisms of the Allora was an excessive scrub radius on the front suspension/steering and the re use of the beta dash. I'm sure others will have more info for you.

John.

[Chris J]

J-P

Well done for buying an Allora Stratos replica.

Thanks to the SEC and this forum the spirit of the Allora is very much alive and well. It seems that nearly all Alloras have survived to this day?

Regarding the Allora to Alfa V6 conversion, I can think of at least two cars that have Alfa V6 engines. You need to talk to the likes of SUSIT and STRATOS (Dave Watson). Both of them have (have had) Alfa powered Alloras. I should think it'll need a little bit more custom fabrication than a Corse or Hawk Beta to Alfa conversion, but not much more?

[l3hou]

Thanks folks - a mine of information already.

I pick it up next week and will start sorting the bits out.

Probably a ton of questions coming then!

I'll see what docs I've got and then look at DVLA. Probably won't be able to shift the "Q", but will see. He has a stratos replica dash in a box, door bins big enough to take helmets. WHen I get some pics done, I'll upload them into my evoforum website. Then you can all put your hands over your eyes in horror :eek: as well as me

J-P

[l3hou]

If anyone has any expoloded diagrams or workshop manuals. I suppose it doesn't matter that much as I will remove the beta engine and do new wirign anyway. I know it's sad, but have any of you fitted aircon?

Whats the going colour? I like the lime green someone here has. I had a 2002tii in the 80's in a similar colour. Tempted...

What's the reckoning on body quality. And what other replica cars parts would fit? CAE or is it a case of repair what I've got?

Thanks for all your help guys!

J-P

[David J]

I still own one of the original Allora replicas which I built way back in 1988.If you would like details of the various components used to build the car please get in touch. Incidently iI completely redesigned the front and rear suspension to improve the stance and look of the car.

I still in fact have the original build manual although to be honest I do not think it would be much help, as it is fairly basic

[John]

J-P,
we still have the original body moulds that the Allora panels were made from, so if you need any panels they can be made. Dave Watson and Steve Struthers have both done Allora V6 conversions so we know it can be done. They will be better able to advise on what needs doing. If I recall correctly it's just a matter of moving an engine bay strut and re-welding it.
Alfa 12 valve wiring is remarkably simple (must be if I can do it). You use the engine loom more or less as it comes off the 164 and all you really need to do is have one permanent live, one ignition fed live and the starter solenoid wire and thats it. Injection fuel pump is fed from the engine loom. You can tidy it all up a bit by altering the position of some items like the relays and coil to suit your new engine bay, but this is just a matter of altering wire lengths and putting new terminals on.
If you are going to fit A-C then you will need to retain that portion of the wiring to the engine loom too. Thats another three wires to control the idle speed , but I don't have any experience of that. It will be available here tho' I'm sure.
Keep us posted.

[strat6v]

Chris savage has aircon fitted on his corse with twelve valve alfa power.

[l3hou]

dare I say "cool", but I'm a saddo that likes aircon. I ended up retrofitting this to a previous Integrale and making wiring. It just struck me that with all that empty space up front and plenty of apertures for a condenser, it had to be possible to do it?

If it's been done, I must get in touch with Chris Savage. He came to London to Brighton Run so will have another peer next time I see the car.

Wee hee. Can't wait to play.

J-P

[SUSIT]

[QUOTE=John]J-P,
we still have the original body moulds that the Allora panels were made from, so if you need any panels they can be made. Dave Watson and Steve Struthers have both done Allora V6 conversions so we know it can be done. They will be better able to advise on what needs doing. If I recall correctly it's just a matter of moving an engine bay strut and re-welding it.
QUOTE]

John,
What strut would that be then? :) I must have missed it. In the Allora its a wee bit more involved than that. The chassis does not allow you to fit the engine as low as it fits a corse or hawk, means cutting a bloody big hole in the rear body section although my engine seems to fit slightly different to Daves.
Engine mounts are easy as is the gear change if you go down the straight linkage route. You need to have drive shaft adapters made and the difficult bit there is making sure you measure the size you need correctly, get it wrong and you risk the CV joints binding.
Your car may have the original rear suspension set up that used the steering arm to lock the hub, I would junk that and follow the later set up, can maybe help you with that one.
J-P drop me a pm with a landline number and we can discuss it on the phone.
If you are going the V6 route you may be able to ditch the Q plate by using an old Alfa 164 as doner and re reging the car but you would need to go down the SVA route and change the chassis number on the Allora, really making it a new build again, otherwise your stuffed and stuck with the Q.
Good luck
Stephen

[l3hou]

thanks all - various PM's sent! :)

[l3hou]

In my ignorance, if the Beta twin cam is in there - and the work to fit an Alfa looks too scary - would the 16v Integrale engine go in - or maybe even a 20 VT. Has anyone done this?

It's probably a lot easier to ask these questions once I've lifted the boot :o , but with the Integrale contact I have, this may be an idea.

Knowing Lancia though, just because there is a twin cam Lancia engine in there has no relevance on if another Lancia twin-cam would work!

[David J]

According to the Guy Croft Tuning Lancia & Fiat Twin Cams all the twin cam blocks are vey similar. early engines do not have balancer shafts late engines do. One thing you might have to watch out for is the sump pan as it is very close to the chassis rail, modifications may be required to the sump I think an 8v or 16v turbo engine would be a straight forward conversion.

[strat6v]

I Had an 8 valve thema turbo in mine some time ago. John Whalley had an 8 valve turbo as did the twins castrol car. Oh, and there was the Everingham twins car, benneton livery with a 16 valve thema turbo. Only hassles are the intercooling. Sorry J-P, Panos bet you to my one off, unused, monster chargecooler!
I have a stack of picks of the benneton car installation. If you want to borrow them you are welcome. :)

John.

[Sando]

Well Done JP ! Hope it all goes well.
One thing to think about on a Turbo engine swap is that the 16 valvers Head is the other way round? ie Turbo and exhaust side right behind you....a lot more localised heat to deal with just where you don't want it!
Lower centre of gravity and less weight than a V6 though, so could be very quick with a 'Grale engine if you are not hooked on the V6 engine note......something I just had to have and I'm really pleased with, otherwise it would have been very easy to go the Thema route or futher upgrade my old Volumex.
Everyones personal preference and wallet at the end of the day. :)

Not sure about the 20v.... I think that mounts very similar and uses the same type of gearbox as the V6.

Cheers
Rob

[Chris J]

Here's the 'Castrol' car that John H. mentioned:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=619&sort=1&cat=500&page=2

[Swamprat33]

Hi J-P, Will you be joining the Stratos Enthusiasts Club now?

I can have a good chat on the London to Brighton run.
See you then.

Tim

[l3hou]

hooked on the V6 engine note

I'm tempted with the v6 for the same reason... but that's when I thought 20vt. It sounds nice and comes with a transaxle from the Fiat coupe. I just don't know if it'll fit compared with the 8v grale engine. But with a rootes type compressor on a beta engine, that could be fun too. To be honest, if I can get 200hp reasonahly reliably, then that's what I'd go for. With weight at about 900-1000kgs, that ought to be fun.

It's the interior I'd like to do a decent job with. I can get fabric reasonably well and know a boat trimmer who can do most odd shapes. Kind of tempted with a dark blue outside with deep red alcantara interior...

I'll post of pics "before" and the cringing can begin!!

I'll collect it midweek and some pictures.

[l3hou]

Hi all

This has probably been asked a zillion times (and I shoudl search the FAQ) but what's the going rate on the 2.4 v6 engine - assuming you can find one?

thanks

[rutthenut]

what's the going rate on the 2.4 v6 engine - assuming you can find one?

Don't know the answer to that, but I gather that the gearbox is scarce (as hen's teeth, I believe) so getting the combined engine and transmission will be a rather expensive proposition.

[l3hou]

Thanks

That'll be the Alfa then. I spoke to one or two about engines and all seem to agree thsi is the one to go for.

But first it looks like I'd need to sort the suspension and the dash from what all the people mailing me have said.

Once that is sorted and/or properly engineered, I can move on. It's tempting to look at engines, but I'm a big fan of decent suspension and brakes and steering than the other way around.

Right. i promise no more posts until I've got the camera out!! :rolleyes: