Cooling pipe foul on chassis

[AndyH]

Hi,

I dropped the engine in at the weekend to have a check and see how it all looks. It's a 1989 12V 3.0L V6.

One issue I've noticed is that the Oval coolant connection on the thermostat housing touches the round stiffening brace that runs diagonally from the chassis at the bottom of the fuel tank to the top horizontal section (just in front of the strut mount).
Not enough room to get a hose on, and before I get the big hammer out and hammer it back a few mm :eek: , I thought I'd ask if someone else has had this problem and how they got around it??

I'm also looking to re-locate the alternator to be adjacent to the oil filter ( where the power steering pump used to be.) Has anyone drawn up any brackets to do this??

Regards
Andrew

[chris.richard]

The strut needs to be removed and re-welded in a slightly different position. Don't hammer it, it must be straight!

picture of new strut position (http://www.stratossupersite.com/photos/showphoto.php?photo=452&sort=1&cat=500&page=3)

[guy mayers]

And the offside tank needs cutting down as well!

Guy

[AndyH]

I'm getting depressed. :(

Mine is a fairly new kit and both mods have already been done. (The car was built to take a V6.)

The Thermostat housing has two connections.. lower pipe oval and fouling the strut. upper pipe round and OK.

Not sure what my options are to fix... The strut is about as far moved over as it will go. Hence the fairly serious suggestion to "ease" the strut a small amount over!

Any suggestions??

Cheers
Andrew

[guy mayers]

Have you tried changing the mounting bobbins to raise or lower the engine? That might give an easy fix? You couls also probably tilt the engine slightly using different thickness bobbins.
Guy

[chris.richard]

There are different configurations of cooling pipes on 12 & 24v engines, and between older and newer motors. Possible options there?
But don't bend the strut - it has to be straight to take compression loads, once bent it is a spring.

[chris.richard]

Crap photos but shows my setup before moving the strut

[chris.richard]

A really crap photo of it once in

I think you could put these parts on a 12v. The other big pipe returns from the nearside between the heads

[AndyH]

Thanks for the thoughts / ideas.

I'll have another play around this weekend with engine heights and see how it look.

I may be able to move the front engine mounting a bit... It's mounted on the 3 studs off the block and then braced onto one of the studs that attach the alternator bracket.

I had to mill a bit off the alloy alternator bracket to get enough thread to attach this brace, so I think if I mill a bit more off it'll pull the mounting foot over a fraction... might be enough.. although the three feet for the engine aligned perfectly to those on the chassis.

C'est la vie... It'll be great one day!

[AndyH]

Hi,

Ref the other idea on changing the thermostat housing / top of water pump for a different arrangement... Anyone got a knackered engine that could be a donor for these parts...??

Cheers
Andrew

[strat6v]

GT VINCE. He's on the forum as vinnie.

[pimms]

Hi,

Ref the other idea on changing the thermostat housing / top of water pump for a different arrangement... Anyone got a knackered engine that could be a donor for these parts...??

Cheers
Andrew

Dropped the engine in this weekend and having the same problem. Any other ideas on solving this problem :confused:
Was thinking of enlarging the 4 mounting holes so i can turn the housing a little away from the chassis tube?
There is also an extra bracket on the front engine mount, do i need to fit the alu Alfa bracket back on the engine block?

Thanks

[mudhut]

Chris, did you manage to buy the new crankshaft nut in one-off quantities? My local Alfa place thought I'd have to but five as the min qty.

[strat6v]

Pim,

I think the ally bracket needs to go back on. Your alternator (12v?) will fix to it, thats assuming you weren't going to try and fit the alternator at the back.
I think you may have to cut the mounting foot off of the alloy casting too so that it clears the suspension link.

John.

[rutthenut]

Are you trying to check engine position with only two of the three mounts in place? Whatever, the alloy engine bracket is needed to the front of the engine for the alternator.

I never needed to cut the unused lug from the bracket, as it did not get in the way, but think it would be a good idea all the same - it may give better access when adjusting the belt tension.

Surprised that a couple of you are now findinf that the engine doesn't fit in this space - presumably picked up different/later engines that might have slight changes to the t-stat housing and water pipe routes? Certainly annoying from your perspective, to say the least.

J.R.

PS - parts from my old 12v (which did fit) could be available; see Buy and Sell

[AndyH]

Hi,

The Alu bracket needs to go back on... I had to mill a bit off mine to get enough thread to get a nut on...

I'm using this alu bracket for air con compressor now, but it was originally for the alternator.
First thing I did was cut the redundant foot off... very difficult to get engine in if you leave it on.

With regards to the fouling.... If you move the complete engine over by elongating the mounting holes, the top bracket will not align any more.
I tried to rotate the engine around the rear cast mounting (the remaining alfa one that the drive shaft goes through) by elongating the holes in the other two feet. Got about 3-4 mm clearance with this, but still not enough and it was starting to look like I was running out of space to get a nut on the engine mounting thread.

I've resign myself to the fact that the bracing bar will need to be cut off and moved as close to the petrol tank as I can get it... probably get a good 6-8mm with this.
Very disappointed.

Andrew

[chris.richard]

Andrew, was your chassis originally for a Beta (HF2000) or a Alfa (hf3000) engine? It sounds like what happens if you try and put an Alfa engine in an HF2000 chassis.

[AndyH]

Hi Chris,

My car is only 3 years old... Bought as HF3000 for Alfa V6 12V.
From what I hear, the fouling is much worse on the earlier? Beta 2000 chassis.
The coolant pipe just touches the chassis brace tube on my car, on the Beta 2000 conversion it sounds like major surgery was / is required to brace tube and fuel tank to get a V6 to fit.

Regards

Andrew

[chris.richard]

I was wondering if Gerry's fabricators had done a Whoopsy and put the strut in the wrong place. Can you post a pic of the lower end?

[pimms]

I was wondering if Gerry's fabricators had done a Whoopsy and put the strut in the wrong place. Can you post a pic of the lower end?

Here's a picture of my chassis, HF 3000 only 1 year old.

[Matt No VAT]

Hi,

Ref the other idea on changing the thermostat housing / top of water pump for a different arrangement... Anyone got a knackered engine that could be a donor for these parts...??

Cheers
Andrew


Andy,

I have spare water pumps complete with all the thermostat housings that you could use as a donor. Just drop me a PM - I need to clear out the stack of Alfa V6 engines and ancilliaries before I move house as I don't need all of them. I have enough spares to cover my needs so I'd rather some bits go to a good home.

Cheers

Matt

[AndyH]

Hi,

I've got about 8mm clearance between the brace and the petrol tank... should be able to free-up say 6mm of this if I cut and move the bar... That should be enough.

I have a photo, but keep getting upload errors... File is only 56Kb (640x480), so should not be too big.

How do I contact the administrator, or does anyone have any tips on how to upload?

Regards
Andrew

[chris.richard]

Reduce to 500 pixels wide to post in this forum. (any height is OK)
Gallery will take any size but is SNAFU at the moment. I've emailed Dave about it.

[strat6v]

I don't think the service is operational at the moment and Dave is probably too busy with work stuff to sit down and sort it out.

John.

[AndyH]

Photo as attached (Maybe?)

[strat6v]

Brace is in the correct place for an alfa engine.

[rutthenut]

I suppose the top end of the bracing bar is in the correct place?

[AndyH]

All three engine mounts align perfectly... top bracing bar spot on as well so all engine mount related components look OK relative to each other...

[pimms]

All three engine mounts align perfectly... top bracing bar spot on as well so all engine mount related components look OK relative to each other...

I did cut the top of the brace and welded it back more towards the outside of the chassis, now i have about 3mm play between the thermostat housing and the brace.

[AndyH]

Hi,

Latest progress..

I've now got enough clearance by doing two things...

I've filed the engine mounting holes a few mm to move the whole engine across a bit..

I also loosened off the whole thermostat housing arrangement (break gaskets and disconnect hoses.)
If you rotate and push the body to take up available cleanance in the bolt holes it looks like I'm getting another couple of mm..

All looks OK now

Andrew

[igosling]

All,

Dropped the engine in last weekend and had no problems. Had a noticeable gap between the thermostat housing and the chassis cross member of about 4-5mm.

This weekend loosened all the engine mounts and fitted the lower casting that holds the alternator in the new position and now the thermostat is right up against the chassis member. I assumed I had rotated the engine on the mounts.

I have lifted and reseated the engine tonight, but same problem. Anyone else had this issue before or was I imagining the engine position after the initial engine drop?

So, is the best fix for this issue elongate the holes and reseat. With the engine in the crane I have noticed that additional height on the offside mounts has an effect, but looks like too much height may be required. Anyone use this solution?

My situation is very marginal. 3mm max is all I need.

Iain

[AndyH]

Hi Ian,

I ended up trying to rotate the engine to avoid filing the original alfa mounting foot (It's about 10mm thick and looked like hard work).

Rotating didn't get enough, so ended up elongating the holes (alfa foot ended up being fairly easy), and got enough room without too much effort.

This is what Gerry recommends, although I'm still a bit puzzled as to why it's not right in the first place, but hey, it's a means to an end.

Regards

Andrew

[igosling]

Andy, thanks. I'll go for the filing option and see how I get on. May get away with not having to remove very much at all.

As you bit confused as to why the strut cant be weld further out to overcome the issue. I was assuming a mod had been done which was reflected in the CV adapter plates being different sizes.

Hey ho, plenty of elbow grease required this long weekend

regards

Iain