New arrival

[Cuda-kris77]

Hi guys,

Im brand new to this forum, since Ive just become aware of the Stratos kit car! I'm very impressed with your community here and have some qestions of my own. Im currently just playing with the idea of building one, and try to gather as much info as I possibly can - this place seems the ideal place! :)

First off, is it possible to fit an alfa twinsprak engine? Im sure this must seem like a ludicrous idea, my reason is I need as small engine from 95 onwards...

Secondly, the engine would most likely have to be fitted complete with cat...
(Stop sniggering in the back there!) :D
What problems does this pose? The obvious to me would be space, havent had a close look at the stratos engine bay, it just seems likely.

That's all I have for now, looking forward to many interesting discussions with you!

Regards,
KristianH

[chris.richard]

Welcome!
You could fit the twinspark, but you'd need to fabricate the installation yourself - it's not an engine that the kit manufacturers cater for.

Some people have cats fitted with their Alfa V6s I think, so there must be room somewher, but I can't think where!

[Cuda-kris77]

Thanks, Chris for that swift reply!

I have been thinking that myself, if a V6-lump fits in, fitting a cat could be somehow possible.
Btw, the engine in question is a 1,6/1,8TS 16v Alfa inline four.
Rated at 120/144hp respectively, they should provide decent performance, at least for a newbie. im not quite sure if the characteristics of the engine would suit the Stratos' nature though. Any thoughts?

Fabricating the installation; im guessing by that you mean designing suitable engine mounts, or are there other considerations to be made?

Does the chassis comply with modern regulations, Im thinking structural integrity/crash tested etc. I know the kit doesnt come complete with the steering column, but does it have the proper fastening for it?
Im asking because that is something that would have to be documented to the vehicle authorities.

Thanks

KristianH

[strat6v]

If its the smaller capacity and v6 soundtrack you want perhaps you could consider a mazda mx3 1.8 v6, mitsubishi fto v6(i think) Suzuki do one as well? Maybe even Honda? Mazda would be good though and not too hard to find a suitable donor.

John.

[pimms]

Hi Kristian,

It is possible to fit a cat when using a V6. Her's an example from a Corse Strato's kit with cat.

Hope that helps

[Cuda-kris77]

Hi guys, thanks for your input, much appreciated!

Strat6v:
I need a smaller engine due to the high taxation level in Norway. I've gone over the figures and estimate that fitting an Alfa V6 at 190hp will cost me around £15k in taxation alone... which is insane. Reason for this is that a kit car will most likely be classified as a -new- car and be subject to the very same taxation regime as any new car.
A smaller inline four at the output levels i suggested above will be more sensible, however I will still have to fork out something like £8k for approval and registration, in addition to the engine itself. Sad but true. :eek:

Im planning for an engine of italian origins, primarily to be in line with the stratos ethos, a mazda engine somehow feels wrong :p
I somehow imagine the sound of it to be more pleasing, though I might be mistaken... :rolleyes:
However, if it's the best option, I'll reconsider! Im very oped to suggestions :)



Pimms:
That helps alot, thanks! My project probably wont fail because of this technicality then! ;)
However, I imagine there's a lot of power sapped in the configuration displayed in the picture?
It should be possible to make a straighter fit if the engine's exhaust side was toward the front of the car, but Im unsure which engines are configured this way. I know the ford zetec lump is/was?

Anyone have information concerning structural integrity/crash testing/steering column fastening...? :confused:

Thanks,
KristianH

[chris.richard]

You'd be best to talk to the manufacturers direct about the integrity testing issues.

[Cuda-kris77]

Chris,

thanks, and I'm going to :) I will inquire with Hawk during the weekend, hopefully they will be able to provide me with any documentation I will need.

Best wishes for a splendid weekend all! :)

[Stratos]

Anyone have information concerning /crash testing/

Unfortunately, a few of us have experience of this. :eek: :D

[SUSIT]

You speak for yourself Mr Watson. ;) At least mine was not my fault :D

[Stratos]

Unfortunately, I have to admit that ALL of mine were MY fault - I'd love to be able to blame the navigator, but I can't. :(

[Cuda-kris77]

Guys,

sorry to hear about your mishaps! I hope they didnt stretch beyond injured pride! :D
Maybe I should reconsider building one, I might not be up to driving it....
Errrrrrrrrrrrrr :D

KristianH

[SUSIT]

Unfortunately, I have to admit that ALL of mine were MY fault - I'd love to be able to blame the navigator, but I can't. :(

Dont see why not Dave, ;) I always thought that was tradition :D

Welcome to the forum Kristian, as you can see most folks are up for a laugh and dont take themselves too seriously. A very friendly forum that is full of helpful and sound advice. Enjoy :)

Could you import a 2nd hand full built car? and get round some if not all the red tape your country sems to impose

[Cuda-kris77]

Thanks for the warm welcome, you guys makes it easy being a newcomer!

And Ive already discovered that this forum is a veritable treasure vault of tips, ideas and genuine good stuff! Thanks to all for taking the road less travelled and building one of these machines. Makes it easier for those of us that are less gifted to follow suit :p

Importing a 2nd hand car could be an option, it would probably be less than building one from scratch, however, Im pretty sure I wont get around taxation. And part of the joy is building it myself (though I might regret that cocky statement later)!

Im in the process of investigating this thoroughly, and Ill be sure to let you know of my findings :)
For now, Im aiming for a lighweight build, with a small displacement engine with decent output (up to 150hp), since those three factors, in decreasing level of severity, determine tax.

Tax-wise, if I can get my hands on an original chassis and re-build it with original parts, it could be registered as a veteran-vehicle, so if you should happen to know of an original lying around in parts, be sure to let me know! :D

KristianH

[Swamprat33]

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

I am aware of several cars that have been planned and or built to make use of Fiat Coupe 16v or 20v engines and also various cars that have been built with Lancia Integrale and Thema Turbo engines.
I am not sure if anyone has actually used a modern Alfa Twinspark unit yet.

There are of course plenty of Lancia Beta Twincam powered cars around, which are often for sale at bargain prices.

Good luck with your quest.

Tim

[chris.richard]

Importing a 2nd hand car could be an option, it would probably be less than building one from scratch, however, Im pretty sure I wont get around taxation. And part of the joy is building it myself

Just because you buy a second hand car doesn't mean you can't dismantle it and build it yourself from scratch - been there, done that!

Tax-wise, if I can get my hands on an original chassis and re-build it with original parts, it could be registered as a veteran-vehicle, so if you should happen to know of an original lying around in parts, be sure to let me know! :D

You'll be far, far cheaper paying the tax on a replica!

[Ken Tomblin]

Have you considered an Alfa 2.5 Litre V6 engine !!!!!!!!

[Cuda-kris77]

Phew
Im spending -way- to much time behind the computer these days, but im really really psyched about this project!

Susit/Tim:
My newest findings point me in the direction of importing an already built car, as you Susit suggested, preferrably as old as possible. Problem is, the vehicle in question would have to comply with the type-approval legislation from back then. I know you guys in UK have the SVA (dates back how long?), but Im not sure if that cuts it.

More likely to get approved in No(r)way :D is a vehicle carrying TÜV-approval, but something tells me this could be a strech to find. I know Hawk has a Belgium brach; maybe they could be helpful in sourcing a car 'good-enough' for No(r)way...? :p
From what I have found today (pouring through online national legislations, EU-directives and whatnot) if a car is approved as a 'regular' car in a EU-coutry, then it can be approved and registered in No(r)way, just like any car. The culprit could be the type-approval thingy. As I said, I dont know if the SVA sticker would persuade my vehicle authorities.

IF I found a suitable approved car, or if an SVA should suffice, this is seriously good news. Basically older cars that are imported are accredited with a reduction in the aforementioned tax on weight (of full car), displacement and output of engine. For say a 15yr old car I would basically pay only 20%.... For a 5yr old one, 50% and so on.

Sooooo, question: are older cars generally SVA or DVEA (correct term?) approved?? This may be a silly question, but I have no idea! :D
Are they much harder to come by than newer cars? How about pricing?

Tim, a Beta-engined car is beginning to sound mighty sweet to me!
(Sorry about the long rant!!)


Chris:
I like the idea of ripping a fully kitted car to pieces :) Goes with my engineering schooling :p
And the thing about getting the original chassis and parts was an, uhm, joke :D
If such parts existed, I assume they'd be snapped up in no time. Just my luck!

Ken:
I generally argue against a larger engine further up the post; not that i wouldnt mind one though!

Thanks all!

KristianH

[Ken Tomblin]

Hi Kristian


How about an Alfa 2.5 Litre V6 !!!!!!!

[rutthenut]

Seems that the Cat convertor is the least of the problems.

Also agree that keeping with an Italian engine may be preferred (but it shouldn't really matter, should it).

If power is an issue, how about the older Alfa V6 engine from the 155? Does that meet your requirements? That has been fitted to Phil's car and at 2.5 litres it is arguably closer to the capacity of the original 2.4 Dino engine. Still gives good performance.

Or to look for a better tax break, would a 2-litre V6 be an option? Don't think the Alfa engine was available in 'atmo' form, or if it could be run that way with higher compression, but the Italians had V6 turbo engines in Spiders and 164, from what I recall. But I guess the full turbo engine may break the limits on power for you, and the heat in the engine bay is not a good thing to deal with.

Anyway, keep working through the options, find out about the cars, and see what you can do.

All the best,
John

[Cuda-kris77]

Thanks John, for your views :)
I have two options, both with pros and cons

1) buy a new kit (not a second-hand unbuilt one)
2) buy a secondhand car with the correct stamps in the book and the correct approval (still unsure what that actually is...hehe)

Problems with 1) is documentation on the kit to comply with modern EU vehicle regulations and high taxation because it is a new car.

Problems with 2) is finding a car that such a car could be tough to find.
More inexpensive to buy though, and far less tax.

For now, it seems engine choice is unimportant :o
I need to figure out how to make it happen, and I probably could rebuild it with a more suitable engine once it is approved and registered anyway :D

Could you share some info on the registrateion process and issues in the UK? Is SVA the normal 'chosen' road? Are kitcars approved by DVLA?

Thank again!
PS: I viewed your video on Google from the Zolder circuit :) nice going! Must've been cool to pass that Catherham :D

KristianH

[chris.richard]

More stuff here

piston heads kit car forum (http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=53166&f=30&h=0)