Fiat X1/9 Clutch Master Cylinder

[Sptwoman]

I'm confused again!! I'm attempting to sort the clutch m/c but the bracket supplied does not appear to fit up with the x1/9 m/c.
The x1/9 m/c bolts from the side, while the clutch bracket appears to have face mounting option but no holes on the side for side mounting.
I assume the bracket is for the x1/9 option without any mods or am I being naive and I should expect to mod to fit?
Any ideas or pics please?

[chris.richard]

I'm confused again!!
I should expect to mod to fit?


Can't help on this particular one, Allen, but the above are "situation normal"! :( :rolleyes:

[guy mayers]

The hole pattern looks like it might be for an Alfa 164 master cylinder? Don't know how the bracket attaches to the chassis though. Is that any help Allen?
Guy

[mogul_x]

That is the new Alfa 164 Clutch master cylinder bracket. There's some pictures of the installation on this thread:

http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2158

Looks like it bolts into the existing X1/9 master cylinder bracket, but I can't tell if it uses all of the same holes, or if new ones are needed.

[Sptwoman]

Thanks for the response. I've read up and looked at the various comments and pics.
I've seen PIMMS use of the bracket with a 164 m/c and the installation is less than perfect as he states. Needs remounting so it's upright.
Discarding this bracket leaves me with the standard mount welded to the chassis. I assume then that I'll have to drill to suit and then produce spacers to centralise the body within the mount? Not ideal!
Does anyone have any experience and pics of their installation using an X1/9 or 164 m/c on a newish Hawk?
Is there any reason for choosing one m/c over the other?
AND I'm only into my 1st month :eek:

[chris.richard]

I've just stripped out my clutch pedal lever system. again. still not happy with the disengagement. Fiat M/C and a cobbled together inkage from pedal to actuate piston in M/C. (pictures somewhere in the gallery) Why is it the thing in the most inaccessible part of the car is the one that needs fixed? I recommend getting it right before the dash and seats are in!
Got my front alignment done today - from 7mm toe out to 0 made the handling far far better. Much more confidence in it now - return journey was fun! :D Rest of geometry being set up next week.
I tried driving in my old rock climbing slippers - also a great improvement over trainers. I can hit one pedal at a time, and I know which one it's going to be! :) The race boots are on order.

[mogul_x]

Hmmm... I'm not sure the clutch master cylinder is positioned any differently in the 164. I'll have to take a look at the pedal cluster I pulled from the donor car. Maybe it does have the reservoir hose on top. :confused:

As for choosing one over the other - I think some folks have had problems getting the Alfa 164 slave cylinder to operate through the full stroke with the X1/9 master. Using a 164 master may be an attempt to correct the problem.

Either that, or Hawk cars decided to use the 164 master cylinder since more folks are opting for the 164 engine and brakes. Getting one more donor part for free.

How much space do you have between the vertical legs of the clutch m/c bracket that's welded to the frame? I'm trying to figure out if the 164 bracket will bolt into my 5 year old frame.

[Sptwoman]

Chris,

I've read your problems of clutch engagement in this area and the resolution :rolleyes: It's because of it's positioning I'd like to fit and forget. PIMMS solution looks ideal once mod'd.

Scott,

The bracket in the pic that Gerry supplies is 75mm wide and fit loosely into the welded mount on the chassis, secured with 4 bolts. I'll take a pic once my camera's returned at the weekend if you like?
PIMMS used it to fit the 164 m/c but it's rolled off centre with the res hose at the side, pics in the attached thread. It could do with a small mod to bring the mounts vertical and the hose on top.
I believe you're correct in thinking Gerry has included the bracket to allow additional 164 donor usage.

I think I'll go down the 164 m/c with PIMMS mod to correct the position of the res hose.

[pimms]

Hmmm... I'm not sure the clutch master cylinder is positioned any differently in the 164. I'll have to take a look at the pedal cluster I pulled from the donor car. Maybe it does have the reservoir hose on top. :confused:

.

Hi guys,

Here's a picture of the Alfa 164 bracket, looking at it it seems that the clutch master cilinder is mounted with the hose sideways. The mounting bolt are diagonal, just like the holes in the Hawk bracket.

[pimms]

Scot,
Do you still have the Alfa pedal box?
I used the cluch pedal to try out as a brake pedal ( better pedal ratio ) but cut of the bracket on top that connects the push rod from the cluch master cil. to the pedal.

As I rememeber that bracket on the Hawk is a few mm. shorter than on the Alfa, so you don't have the same pedal ratio??

Thanks, Pim

[mogul_x]

Pim,

I'm almost certain I still have the 164 pedal box. I think it's up in the loft above my garage, but I'd have to climb up there and find it.

[DavidM]

I've fitted a Monte M/C (same as X1/9 I think) to the welded bracket by making up two spacer plates, bolt the m/c between them then bolt to the chassis bracket, bit of a fiddle to centralise but works fine, sorry no pics and its now buried under the wired up dash. DavidM

[Sptwoman]

Gerry confirmed the bracket is for utilising the 164 m/c and it appears it can sit with the reservoir feed off centre, as per the original 164 installation.
Makes sense to use a 164 if you're using a v6 with 164 slave. Looks simpler - fit and forget?
I stumbled onto the construction section of the gallery today, what a good idea... It would be very useful if it had more subscribers / pics, especially by the advanced builders. A picture tells a thousand .........
Thanks to all who inputted, much appreciated.

[pimms]

Just modified the clutch master cilinder bracket by boring the mounting holes in another position. Now the cilinder is in the same position as per Alfa 164 :) .
The only problem now is the connection to the pedal axle. The small bracket on the axle is 5-10mm shorter than on the alfa. :(

[pimms]

Just modified the clutch master cilinder bracket by boring the mounting holes in another position. Now the cilinder is in the same position as per Alfa 164 :) .
The only problem now is the connection to the pedal axle. The small bracket on the axle is 5-10mm shorter than on the alfa. :(

Just looking at my own pictures it would be far easyer to turn the bracket 180 degrees so the mounting holes will be in the same position, why didn't i think of that before :o

[pimms]

I've seen PIMMS use of the bracket with a 164 m/c and the installation is less than perfect as he states. Needs remounting so it's upright.

Hi Allen, looking at the picture of your bracket, the mounting holes for the clutch master cil. are in the right position. I think my bracket had the holes bored in the wrong position. Maybe a monday morning bracket as we say in Holland ;)

[igosling]

I stumbled onto the construction section of the gallery today, what a good idea... It would be very useful if it had more subscribers / pics, especially by the advanced builders. A picture tells a thousand .........
Thanks to all who inputted, much appreciated.

All,

Came across this thread earlier. How do I stumble my way to the Construction Gallery?

Hope you can Help

Iain

[STR470S]

I think it is here :- Construction Gallery (http://www.stratossupersite.com/photos/showgallery.php?cat=507)

[igosling]

Can someone let me know if they are using the Alfa 164 master successfully. Looks to me like there is limited travel in the pedal.

Any modifications required? Like a longer threaded piston?

Iain

[Patriq Backlund]

I've fitted a Monte M/C (same as X1/9 I think) to the welded bracket by making up two spacer plates, bolt the m/c between them then bolt to the chassis bracket, bit of a fiddle to centralise but works fine, sorry no pics and its now buried under the wired up dash. DavidM


Why would you need spacer plates if you are using a X1/9 M/C, when the welded bracket is for a X1/9 M/C in the first place ?!
(isn't it !?)

[Patriq Backlund]

Just looking at my own pictures it would be far easyer to turn the bracket 180 degrees so the mounting holes will be in the same position, why didn't i think of that before :o

If you rotated it 180dgs, wouldn't the plate that is below the M/C in the picture be on top - and cover where you would want to attach the reservoir hose to the M/C ?

[Patriq Backlund]

Hi Allen, looking at the picture of your bracket, the mounting holes for the clutch master cil. are in the right position. I think my bracket had the holes bored in the wrong position. Maybe a monday morning bracket as we say in Holland ;)

Have you had confirmed that your bracket was wrong - and the other brackets for the 164 M/C that are shipped with the kit look different from yours ? Have you called/e-mailed Gerry and asked ?

Just for me to know so that I can decide whether I should go for FIAT or 164 M/C...

[pimms]

Sorry Patrick,

I use a tilton set up with the 164 master cilinder. I do remember the holes in the 164 master cil bracket were bored in the wrong place but did not pay anymore attention to it.

[pimms]

Sorry Patrick,

I use a tilton set up with the 164 slave cilinder. I do remember the holes in the 164 master cil bracket were bored in the wrong place but did not pay anymore attention to it.