Braking options

[Sptwoman]

I realise there's lots of threads on braking and they're all very useful. I'm trying to set myself a budget before I start on the brakes so... :rolleyes:
My kit arrives this month, fingers X'd. It's an HF3000 164 based with Gerry's Leda/?? suspension options (Springs 325F/9" and 325R/7") including 5 stud hubs.
After hours of reading, I've come up with the following possiblities / options.These are well documented in the forums:
1. Fitting dual brake MC's. Can I use the existing Hawk design or the Tilton pedal box assembly as offered by Gerry or another aftermarket offering?
2. Fitting 0.75 mc for the front, and 0.70 mc for the rear.
What I'm unsure about is:
3. Possible remote balance options?
4. Instead of using 164 brakes, sourcing disks/calipers from the Alfa range. The GTV 156/166 etc range that uses I believe 4 pot brembo brakes all round.
5. Utilise the associated Alfa ABS?
6. What the max disc size used front and rear when running 15" wheels?

Does anybody have any experience of using Alfa brakes apart from 164's?
What about the luxury of ABS? Even ESP :eek: ?
All comments appreciated,

Regards,

Allen

[Sando]

Hi Allen
I'm sure you'll get much better replies than I could write about brake options, but keep an eye on the SVA with regard to bias brakes. They need to be seen as not adjustable by the SVA tester.

cheers
Rob

[richard hall]

is it for road use only or comp? 315m wil fit under 15" rims




richard

[strat6v]

Hi Allan,

You could use the four pot brembo's from a gtv? or fiat 20v coupe, pug 406 coupe, seat leon cupra r,focus rs. Going rate for a used, but a1 pair is around £200.00. You could also look at the wilwood midilite caliper which would give you various piston options and radial mounting. good value at £120 + vat.ea. Later in the year they are bringing out a midilite with handbrake facility too.

Disc diameters previously used are 309mm rears and 300mm fronts. I think thats as big as you could fit under a coffin spoke rim.

I am fitting abs on my car. the only problem is tyre rolling radiuses, fronts i think being less than the rears. You would have to look at the percentage difference between front and rear then transfer that difference to the toothed rings on each corner, making the ecu read equivalent amounts of teeth. Bar that it should work a treat.

[SUSIT]

I realise there's lots of threads on braking and they're all very useful. I'm trying to set myself a budget before I start on the brakes so... :rolleyes:


Does anybody have any experience of using Alfa brakes apart from 164's?
What about the luxury of ABS? Even ESP :eek: ?
All comments appreciated,

Regards,

Allen

Budget - More than you think, my brake set up has set me back around £1200 so far for tilton pedal box, 2 master cylinders 4 284mm vented discs and a pair of Hi Spec 4 pot racing callipers. Not included rear callipers, braided flexable hose and handbrake cables.
I am aware there are cheaper options.

[Sptwoman]

Rob,
So the brake bias has to be locked down so no remote?

Richard,

The idea is the car will be used for track days, possibly sprints / hill climbing in the future as well as occasional road use. I need to look out with the knowledge that the max disk is 315mm for 15" rims then?

John,

I assume the mount brackets would have to be fabricated for the caliper / car list you quoted? Are we looking at front and rears off these models?
I've read about the wilwood midilite calipers but also the delay in producing the rears with a hand brake function. If I went for these on the front, what would be the best bet on the back?

Stephen,

We spoke at length re suspension and budgets. The result was I ended up going to Gerry :rolleyes: so this is my latest "challenge". I'm setting myself a week to research and then make a decision.
Any help guys would be greatly appreciated as I have a poor track record with budgets :cool:

Thanks for the help so far,

Allen

[strat6v]

There is also the hi-spec option for calipers. They have a rear hand brake caliper(4 pot) too. Heard stories about their rotors but can't comment myself. The calipers i looked at were well made though. I think they have an online catalogue too. Radial mount calipers are supposedly easier to make mounts for.

John.


just remembered, the slightly older cast wilwood dynalites are 70 quid plus vat each from rally design. Been used on a few hawk strats. I have some mounts for the front if you want to have a look.

[Sando]

Hi Allen
Yep. No Remote Adjuster (for the test) and also showing that you have locked off the position of the balance bar too. A roll pin through the the locking nuts was suggested by the SVA tester. PM me and I'll explain more, or speak to Mick (Cats whiskers) as he had this to deal with.

cheers
Rob

[guy mayers]

Allen, I saw the Midilite at the International Historic Show with a mechanical handbrake option. Basically a curved lever behind each pad (so it pushes on the same spot irrespective of pad wear), pivot point nearest the wheel centre and two cable mounts nearest the wheel. Drawbacks from my point of view are wrong mounts and the levers would foul the wheels so I'd be looking for new bells and discs and mountings.....
may be an option worth looking into for you though.
Guy

[strat6v]

Guy, The caliper you mention was actually the smaller powerlite handbrake version. Same handbrake mechanism design i believe. They are also going to do them with the stainless pistons and no dust seals. the midilite won't be available till later in the year.

[Sptwoman]

Thanks for all the info. so far. If anyone has the time, can they provide their brake set-up info please?
Front & rear caliper mounts & supplier.
Front and rear caliper make, spec and supplier.
Disk info as above.

Stephen,
What size and make are your 2 master cylinders? What do the 4 X 284mm vented discs come from / off? Which model of Hi Spec 4 pot racing callipers are you using? The R114-4, radial/dynalite? Any ideas on rear calipers as Hi Spec supply 2 and 4 pot rears with a handbrake option? What mounts are you using? I'll hopefully continue this subject with you next Saturday?

John,

You mentioned Wilwood and I believe they now produce rear 4 pots with a handbrake option! There's a lot of threads in the forum. Do you know anybody who's running this setup?Are these American made? Do you know who's the best informed UK supplier to talk to?
Stephen also mentioned Hi Spec. From the web site, they have a comprehensive range.
Who made your front mounts? What caliper/disk combination are they used with? Any pics?

I'll be at the Total Kitcar Live North @ Oulton Park next Saturday. I assume they'll be a few brake stands there? Hope to find out a lot more then and hopefully meet some of the club members.

Thanks for all the help,

Allen

[SUSIT]

Allan,
was going to say I cant remember however as luck would have it the file with all my receipts is sitting on the floor beside me. So the Hi spec one says 0.625 & 0.750. Fair price as well £22.50 each.
Disc's I got from the local motor factor at trade price, they are from an Alfa 146 if I remember right.
284mm X 22mm vents all round for 98mm 4 Stud with I think a 60mm spigot hole in the centre.

My fronts are radial mount 114-4.

Rears not fully decided yet as I may be forced down the SVA route yet and then I will need a proper handbrake otherwise I will use the 114-4 on the rear as well.
I do have a set of cosworth rear callipers with hand brake but dont really want to use them as i really dont like sliding callipers.

I have just finished making the mounting adaptors for the front, takes about 4 hours a side with a lot of the time spent measuring and remeasuring prior to cutting and drilling. Made from 6mm sheet steel so lots of grinding.Will take some pics when back at the garage on monday.

[chris.richard]

as I may be forced down the SVA route yet

Why? :confused: you're car's registered and been on the road before - or was it written off?

[SUSIT]

Why? :confused: you're car's registered and been on the road before - or was it written off?

Still says Beta coupe on the V5 Chris :( On the up side I have the MOT's from when it was built and the first one says its a Allora. :) On the down side because its being rebuilt using diffirent engine and most other parts if they want to inspect it I think I will be up the creek as they say. :(
Going to send the V5 off to change engine number but not sure I should speak to the DVLA first
Was not declared written off following its accident

[strat6v]

Allen,

The wilwood handbrake caliper is the powerlite, bit small for a strat. Soon to be joined by the midilite handbrake caliper which is a bit bigger. I'm in the same position as you at present on the brake purchase front and hope to make my decision soon.

Guy Mayers runs a wilwood dynalite setup on his strat. No problems reported and performed well on a Stelvio sortie i believe. This setup has been supplied as an upgrade from Hawk or BGC.

Value for money wise, go with wilwood. A brand new dynalite for £69.50 plus vat from Rally design in faversham, Kent.

I will be at Oulton next saturday. I would think any of the SEC members will point me out to you. Also i will bring my front dynalite caliper mount for you to have a look at.

John.

[SUSIT]

John,
Just uploaded some pictures of my front caliper and home made mounts to the gallery.
There was still some tidying up to do and change bolts for right length etc

[Sptwoman]

Stephen / John,

They look beefy radial mounts! What about the rears though? I assume it's hydraulic if you can get away it? Otherwise cable for the SVA?
I've gone down the 5 stud Hawk conversion which provides for a traditional mounted 164 caliper. Radial seemed to be the way forward so would be interested to see the mounts on Saturday.
There are a few OMP Front Brake Discs of 284mm for the 5 stud 164 offered on eBay at £99 a pair which hopefully would be an option for me.

Will there be some brake specialist stalls there on Saturday to hassle?

Regards,

Allen

[strat6v]

Allen,

I doubt there will be any brake manufacturers/suppliers there at the weekend.

Perhaps if Guy Mayers is attending, he will show you his ;)

John.

[CorseChris]

Probably a bit late...but my front setup is billet Dynalites, home-made adapter plates that bolt direct onto the upright, starting with the 1/2" thick blanks that Rally Design sell , 8V Thema turbo vented discs. Can't recall piston size at the moment but I can find out if you are interested.

Rears are Beta caliper, Tarox disc. Starting to think the rears might need some new discs (I used some previously enjoyed ones). Gary Lomas used Beta calipers on his car for many years without any real problems in competition which was why I stuck with them for my road going car.

Car will be at Oulton if you want a nose.

[Sptwoman]

Thanks for all the advice, I'm now happy with my braking options. I'll have a good nose on Saturday to finalise my choice.

One interesting bit of kit to note is Wilwood's Mechanical Spot Caliper (http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=562_588&products_id=8312) rear handbrake option. Has anybody used this option on their car?

Allen

[guy mayers]

Yes. Binned them after about 10 minutes. Completely unsuitable, need CONSTANT adjustment. Find another way!
Guy

Still intend to be at Oulton Park this weekend, car hasn't been off the lift since last year so it needs a blast! Only caveat is that it has a flat battery that I need to change to get it going!

See you there!

[strat6v]

Hope to catch up with you on saturday Guy. You'll be pleased to know your old dash will be fitted in permanently next week once i fit the pedal box.

John.