SVA Advice

[Simon Dickens]

:) Help please Ive just purchased What I believe to be a Transformer Stratos replica No 4 produced but its not been changed on the log book,what if any major issues would there be to get a Stratos through the sva test?
It runs a 2000cc lancia twin cam and is currently taxed and tested so overall its in good running order.Also whats the best way to avoid a Q plate the current V5 shows Lancia hpe the vin number on the V5 is same as on car,and engine number matches and most of the donor was used so it should score enough points to keep the reg,shouldnt it ?
Any thoughts and help appreciated.
Also whats involved to convert to alfa 3000cc 164 power.

Thanks Simon Dickens

[mogul_x]

Simon,

I can't advise on the SVA question - I'm afraid they play by different rules over here - but if the car is already T&T'd, does it need to go through SVA?

As for converting to Alfa v-6 power... I believe it entails modifications to the shift linkage, motor mounts, RH side diagonal brace between the upper and lower longitudinal rails, exhaust link pipes, and possibly the RH fuel tank. Most of the metal parts to do this should be available as a kit from Hawk Cars - it's basically all of the brackets and linkage supplied to HF3000 kits. Installation will require some welding and grinding.

There are adapter plates to attach the Beta inner CV joints to the output flanges on the Alfa transmission - also available from Hawk, and you may need to revise the coolant pipes. You'll also need to splice in the Alfa ECU loom.

If the car is equipped with struts from a Lancia Beta, you may want to upgrade to Leda struts at some point. Some owners have found that the Beta struts aren't quite up to the task of dealing with the heavier Alfa engine - but this may be a matter of personal preference rather than a neccesity.

There are several members on the list who have actually converted a car from Beta to Alfa power, and they could fill you in on the minutiae. I just wanted to give you a general reply.

[CorseChris]

Welcome Simon.

Have a quick search - this very topic was covered recently. Can't recall who though - sorry. You should be OK given the car is currently taxed, but it's always down to the local VRO in the end. Should the very worst happen and you are forced to go through SVA, it's not a big problem with these cars. Given you have an early car, the worst thing you'd likely have to resolve would be a lack of approval marks on the front & rear screens. Potentially expensive.

Conversion to V6 is again pretty well covered, parts to do it readily available. Basically, some new engine mounting points welded onto the car, engien mounts for the engine itself, gear linkage mods, exhaust mods, move a chassis tube or two, drive shaft adapters, plumbing & wiring mods. New rad would be smart.

Stupid cheesy grin also required for when you drive it.

I've just finished doing a TC to V6 conversion on my Corse, but I'm sure a Transformer owner who has done this will be along shortly to give you all the details you need. It's a very well trodden path so you won't be stuck for advice.

[chris.richard]

Try here for instance
http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58&highlight=alfa+conversion

A search for alfa V6 conversion throws up lots of threads.

Once you've read them a phone chat is probably the easiest. I'll pm you my phone number.

[guy mayers]

Or a visit to a fellow owner? I'm at the end of the M57! Plus I've converted my car from Stradale to Gp4, changed from Volumex to V6 and swapped the interior from Stradale to Gp4 at the same time as a repaint....
Engine again next - Cloverleaf ready for the purpose...
Cheers
Guy

[DaveAk]

Hi Simon,

I too have been where you are now. Definately get your vehicle details changed with DVLA, before converting to Alfa power, you should have enough Beta components to retain donor plate.

I didn't do this and am now trying to get my car correctly registered, but it 's much more difficult.

I converted to Alfa V6 some years ago, not too difficult, and I am no mechanic, but managed most of the work myself. Needed help with wiring as usual, and new exhaust.

Job takes longer than planned.

I'm in Warrington if you would like to have a look at how mine was converted.

Dave

[John]

Hello Simon,
Am I correct in thinking you have been a replica owner in the past? Was it not your self who owned the Allora now in Steve Struthers possesion?
I have recently been over to see Chris Ellis who lives in Congleton not too far from you. He is about to go through SVA at Manchester. It might be good for you to go along and watch the car through if possible. You will pick up a lot of pointers as to what the process involves and what they will pick up on with regard to the Stratos in particular. Should then be a piece of cake for you.
Your car is not blue and from Oldham is it?

[stableblock]

Chassis No 4 may have used the Beta subframe rather than have fabricated mounts. This would affect fitting the alfa engine.

Hope this helps.

Peter

[Simon Dickens]

Wll thanks everybody for all the info,answering some of the questions,the car is now sat snuggly in my garage cant drive it yet as cant fit in it !
:D Nothing serious though seat is bolted in for a small person.
Just need to get some sliding seat runners and refit seat.
Yes I cant deny it I have had a Stratos before the Allora that Steven Struthers now has seems he has been busy with it.
I think it might be a good idea to View the sva Ill make contact if thats ok. Also wouldlnt mind a trip to warrington to have a look at v6 install.
Another quick question in terms of real performance for a road car how much difference would be noticable for a 3.0 ltr 12v engine and a 24 valve 3litre?
I once owned a 3.0 ltr 12v green cloverleaf 164 and that was quite a flying machine.
How will performance compare,to a bike engine kit as i have had a few of these A mk indy with Triumph daytona 1200cc engine,An MK Gt1 with mid engined bike power Yamaha 1000cc Thunderace,Also my Friend Has A gt40 with Ford 302 in it will it keep up with that dont want to get left behind !
Is the Alfa easily tunable Ie exhaust, Air intake, chips Etc,and what power gains could you see.
Also it is the Blue car from oldham.Will post some pictures soon when i work out how to do it.

Cheers Simon.

[CorseChris]

Hi Simon.

Bunch of questions there!!

I'll have a bash. Opinions WILL vary :)

I really don't think an un-modified 24V would be an awful lot quicker than an unmodified 12V. If you went from say a base spec 12V at about 190bhp to a top spec cloverleaf 24V at 230bhp then obviously you are 40bhp better off of course. But cloverleafs are rare so you are more likely to be looking at as little as 10 bhp better off.

Performance wise compared to other stuff...tricky. Hard to improve on the traction you get from a Strat unless you go 4WD so you won't be wasting lots of power with wheelspin. Power to weight is a key guide to performance of course and you can do some sums. Gearing of course, and torque. A Ford 302 could be making anything from 150 to 500 bhp so hard to say if you'll be left behind.

Real-world these are pretty quick. Folk have done well in Strats when in competition with some fancy kit over the years, with standard or near standard Alfa motors too.

Chip tuning on the standard management is pretty much a waste of cash IMHO unless you manage to get a cheap copy. Big step forward would be to lose the flap type air flow meter.

The usual options of head work, cams exhausts are open to you of course, but the parts tend to be expensive. Fair to say that a 24V has more ultimate potential than a 12V. Turbo has been done with pretty impressive results on both 12 & 24V motors.

Personally, I'm planning on removing the Motronic and fitting an Emerald ECU on my 12V motor (so I can ditch the flap air flow meter and get the fueling & timing optimised), followed by a blower with about 6-8psi. I don't intend doing any internal mods at all. I'm hoping this will give me something like 200-250ftlb and maybe as much as 275-300bhp. I'm probably going to be dissapointed but it's nice to dream ;)

All very much my own biased views of course.

[Simon Dickens]

I once spoke to the guy at hennessy racing he reckons a diy turbo kit from him would be above £1500 pretty good value i would think and reckoned it would give a reliable 300Hp I think it was only 1 or 2 yrs ago when I spoke to him at a show so if inflation has gone up to much it shouls still be a good guide price.

Regards Simon.

[Simon Dickens]

Sorry typo error shouls say turbo kit is about £1500 not above.Also check out lotus europa specialist website banks europa they did have some images of a twin turbo installation on a Europa>Also final one for quick thought why not use motor bike throttle bodies or carbs and a megasquirt diy programable ecu Kit for ecu was about £79.00 plus vat bike bits cheap single throttle or carbs about £40.00 for set of 4 one carb per cylinder 40 mm chokes or bigger.
Very cheap Diy way for big power perhaps ?

Regards Simon.

[CorseChris]

The Hennessey/Napiersport EVO has a twin turbo 12V motor and apart from some low comp pistons (and the turbos) is standard. It makes 350ftlb 350bhp with 12psi of boost. Genuine figures, as accurate as you are likely to see from a rolling road. Neil Simons twin turbo car made over 400bhp.

Bike TBs have been looked at, don't know anyone who has done this yet. Bike carbs were tried by someone who knows a heck of a lot more than me about tuning (not hard to be fair!) but there were some problems with getting a decent runner length in the available space I think. Using the large intake runners on a plenum setup is a pretty good compromise.

Lots of talk about megaXX, but I'm happy with something tried and tested myself! Plus real expert support.

I suspect you'll find bike TBs & carbs are getting more expensive these days too. Between buying a set of GSXR TBs and getting round to fittting them to the Westy, they went up from the £75 I paid to typically £150. Carbs are set to go the same way now that PPC has let the cat out of the bag.