Donor car and cats?

[Sptwoman]

Oh! wise ones please clarify.
From my limited understanding, I buy a donor vehicle and if it's a certain year I end up fitting a cat or not? Since I'm looking for a Alfa 24V as new as possible I feel I'm going to be stuffed :confused:
It's a lot of expense and tarting about fitting a cat :mad: We live in a cold country and it take some time to get a cat up to work temp anyway 36 degrees? Does the 24V need a cat and do you need to use the "landar" probe to satisfy the ECU?
Am I sane with my resolution - If I purchase an old 164 banger with V5 NON cat can I use it to register my Hawk even though I've replace the original engine with a nice 24V engine sourced from else where? :rolleyes:

Regards,

Allen

[catswhiskers]

Hi Allen,
Catalytic converters became mandatory in August 1992. Whatever engine you have fitted to your car when applying for registration, the V5 donor paperwork and the engine number MUST be the same. If your 24v engine was first registered after that date, you will need to fit the cat.
Unfortunately, you cant present a V5 from an old car and have a different engine fitted.
You could fit an older 12v engine for registration but you still have to have the corresponding V5 documentation.
Don't know about the Lamda sensor I'm afraid.

Hope this helps. :)

Mick

[BAS]

How about sending the V5 off and changing the engine number befor the SVA?

[David May]

Its not that hard to fit the cat if you start from a donor car. You only need the original lambda probe and a few extra wires. I use a tiny catalyser that warms up very quickly but tends to 'fall off' between inspections!

[chris.richard]

The 24v lambda probe fits into the exhaust before the catalytic converter, so the engine doesn't mind whether one is fitted or not.

[CorseChris]

How about sending the V5 off and changing the engine number befor the SVA?

That's what I did for my TC motor. It wasn't about emissions but the principle is the same.

Get a V5 for a pre-cat 164, send it to DVLA with the new engine number, wait a polite interval, present vehicle and V5 for SVA.

But it's probably just as easy to fit a small CAT as Dave suggests. And you will still want to fit a Lambda probe or the ECU will sulk and run in limp-home mode. You won't be able to persuade the 24V ECU to run open loop like you can with the 12V ECU I don't think.

[mudhut]

If you've never seen this before, you could do worse than to take a look at http://www.bobmckay.co.uk/index.html and especially this bit http://www.bobmckay.co.uk/emission.html

ISTR that production vehicles had to have a cat fitted as of August 1992. There are many kit cars with zetec engines that do not require one if the owner can show that the engine was made before (I think possibly) Aug 1995. All zetec engines in the UK will be post March 1993 when they were first introduced with the Mondeo and I understand there is demand for the early (pre '95) units for exactly that reason.

Now I may well have gone completely off the rails here but I think this may mean that if you get an early Alfa 24v unit from that narrow time slot between its introduction around 1994 and (Aug?) '95, you may not need a cat either.

In any case as the web site above says, it's not a cat that's compulsory for MoT but the tail pipe emissions standards.

I hope this helps but I find this all pretty confusing too!

[strat6v]

Many new sports bikes have cats in their exhaust cans. Yamaha have a different approach. They fit an exhaust air induction system which i believe 'thins out' as such, the exhaust gas/emissions to an acceptable level. I will check my pc files, somewhere is the 02/03 r1 shop manual with pics and such.

the thing connects to the exhaust where the manifolds meet the head. Don't see why two valves couldn't be fitted, one for each bank of a v6. It would be cheap, less weight etc. Its the type of part that bike breakers just about chuck away.

[Sando]

Get a V5 for a pre-cat 164, send it to DVLA with the new engine number, wait a polite interval, present vehicle and V5 for SVA.

:) That's the answer I would say ;) , and I'd rather fit just a Lambda than the cat if you have to...
The 24v headers or downpipes depending on the engine used, have lambda bosses already in...... pick and mix :)
Rob

[strat6v]

Rob,

Would that have to be a pre cat 24 valve engine or would a old 12 valve do?
Surely it can't be that simple?

John.

[Sando]

After writing a reply then deleting it all, I thought better of it and not to delve into this too deeply in public is probably wisest ;)

Bobster

[Sptwoman]

Thanks guys for all your input, it's much appreciated :rolleyes:
So to summarise. I buy a kitten for Christmas so by the time I've completed my project it will be mature enough to be classed as a cat. I place the cat in a strategic place in the car during all the checks and tests and if asked re the cat, I point to the said cat and slip the inspector an appropriate "bung". :D
To be serious just for a minute! Looking out for a donor at present is serious business and I need to understand the route I should take. Is it the cat that is physically required or do you have to meet the emmisions levels? One or the other or both? Is the an oracle who knows the answer? :confused:
Maybe I should fit a ZETEC!! :eek:

Thanks again

Allen

[Sando]

Hi Allen
I'm not an Oracle but I'll try and help a bit more.

It's the emisions levels appropriate to the age of the donor/engine you have to meet. if this is 92 on, then it's pretty tight but achievable, after Aug 95 you have to have a cat fitted anyway after this date There was an earlier thread with all the dates on for when Mick (Catswhiskers) :rolleyes: no pun intended Meeow :) asked about these dates in a similar thread.http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1998&highlight=emissions

This also says a bit more about it being the age of the Donor VEHICLE used for setting the emissions test criteria.

Best bet is get a copy of the SVA manual so you are confident in your own mind what you have to do and what you want to do to pass the test.

cheers
Rob