Cooling hose query

[AndyH]

Hi,

I'm starting to pipe up either end of the cooling system now and had a question re hose size at the engine end...

The flow to the rad is circular @ 38mm Dia so no problem... The return is "oval" in shape... I've cleverly ditched the original hose and was going to simply use a circular fitting stretched across the oval.

Has anyone else done this, and if so can you tell me what dia hose to use or best way to connect.

Beginning to feel that there is a light at the end of the tunnel, but still miles to go.

Many Thanks

Andrew

[strat6v]

Hi andy,

I think the hose was 45mm. :)

[guy mayers]

Somewhere back in the dim and distant past (1994 I think) I came across this problem.... I ended up botching the job with two different diameter rubber pipes. One fittted the oval Alfa thermostat housing and the other fitted neatly inside it and matched the O/D of the stainlesss pipe running through the spine to the radiator. The SS jubilee clips and the whole thing is still holding up 10 years later. No flow problems noted. These days I'd just get a Samco step down union from D*m*n Theives and bugger the expense....

Guy

[Swamprat33]

Hi, I've got some of the flexible 'Superflex' coolant hose that is available from Demon Thieves. This has no problem fitting onto the oval outlet.
Cheers

Tim

[chris.richard]

Hi, I've got some of the flexible 'Superflex' coolant hose that is available from Demon Thieves. This has no problem fitting onto the oval outlet.
Cheers

Tim

I've got a spare bit of that left...
I don't remember noticing that the connector was oval!

[CorseChris]

Some are oval, some are round...... I have one of each in my engine collection.

[Media]

Mine was oval and I decided to fit a Semco straight reducer 45mm to 32mm which connects to a stainless steel pipe.

Geraint

[Arthur]

I've got an oval outlet - came with the lump, the CAE-supplied hose fitted, so I didn't give it a second thought.
After 6 years, and numerous bloody irritating water leaks at said oval pipe, I'd use the round one if I had to do it again.

[CorseChris]

I'm probably not too far from this stage in my engine swap I suppose. Well, I will be as soon as I pull the TC out and put some engine mounts onto the chassis......

Spent yesterday stripping out a dead gearbox so I've got an empty (light) casing to work with, as well as cleaning and painting the 'box I'll be using. Was about to start putting the ancilliaries back on the engine (after cleaning and painting it all) but couldn't find the bag of shiny new bolts I bought for it so gave up for the day. Very frustrating!

Can't remember which of the two (round or oval) water manifolds I ended up selecting for use. Have a sneaking suspicion it was the oval one for some compelling reason I can't recall at the moment. Round makes more sense from a joint point of view - can't imagine what Alfa where thinking with the oval version.

There seems to be a common theme here....I think I'm losing it!!

[Arthur]

Chris,

Fine upstanding educated man that you are; on the 12V block, at the driver's side, at the rear V, is a submerged screw. Can't find it in the CD manual (doesn't mean it's not there, just I can't find it....), and I don't know what it does apart from leak oil. Doesn't have any effect on oil pressure (wouldn't expect it to) but it may have something to do with cambelt tension - its in about the right place. Anyone know what it is, if it needs setting at all, and most importantly how to stop the bloody oil leaks? :mad:

[CorseChris]

Hi Arthur,

Don't know for certain, but AFAIK, it just blanks off the end of an oil gallery so would expect it to be sealed in place with what the manual calls 'cement', but I'd guess threadlock would work well enough....

Seem to recall seeing this plug recently while working around the crank pulley end of the motor. There's a similar one hidden underneath the waterpump - that would be a sneaky one to find if it leaked.

I'll have a look for you tonight to confirm, as I intend staying in the garage until I find those bloody bolts.

BTW, does your motor have the original style hydraulic tensioner or has it been modified? If the latter, this could possibly be the tensioner oil return hole that needs blanking. But this probably wouldn't leak badly as it's only at crankcase pressure of course, not oil feed pressure and would only be filled with fume, not liquid.

If the former, then there are no adjustments on the tensioner oil feed side so it should be a simple case of remove and re-seal the plug.


As far as the first bit goes, well, I'm not too bad thanks but fine is probably pushing it, I'm sitting down at the moment, but I did go to University so did have some education applied to me at some point ;)

[chris.richard]

Welcome back Arthur! I was beginning to think you'd sunk! ;)

[CorseChris]

Arthur,

Can comfirm that sunken screw is a gallery bung.

...and I found those bolts as well.

......and it seems I decided to use the water manifold with the round outlet.

If it's any kind of guide, the oval type was on a much earlier engine than the round one. Also, the later engine has the small oil cooler fed with water from the water manifold area. The holes are present on the early one but blanked off with plugs.

[Arthur]

Thanks very much for that - when I'm feeling limber I'll bend meself into the gap and reseal that thing.

No idea about the adjuster - I didn't know I'd need the knowledge 6 years ago when I put the lump in - and the lump itself was constructed from bits lying around Mike Buckler's workshop, not so bad cos I got the heads done, rings and bearings renewed all for the same price, but it does mean that any mention of state of tune or specific engine queries are a bit hazy - I've no bloody idea, really. Does 209 bhp on the rollers, so I'd believe its in Cloverleaf trim on its poor little 12 valves.

As for my reported demise, I'm still here - just about ready to go back to work, in fact. I spent this leave on training courses fitted around a complete strip-out and rebuild of my kitchen, plus Xmas and all, and two grandkids, so it all got a bit pear-shaped on the car front.

[CorseChris]

Arthur,

Most welcome - hope it's not too awkward a job to get at. The hydraulic tensioners are renowned for leaking so it's possible it could be that maybe? I've just renewed the seals on the one I'm using. I find it telling that the the stores bloke at Mangoletsi knew exactly what I wanted just from the part number. Probably sells lots.

There seems to be loads of discussion on the tensioners thing. One of the common causes of leaks is damage to the O rings on the hollow top bolt apparently. I can see why! I'll be moving to one of Lionels fixed type soon no doubt.

Was that 209bhp at the wheels? Pretty good if so and not too shabby if it's calculated flywheel either. Certainly more than a standard 12V like mine.

[Arthur]

Chris,

The 209 was at the flywheel on a computerised losses calculating rolling road, so all the usual disclaimers apply. Came out as about 178 bhp at the wheels if memory serves (which it usually doesn't).
209 occurred at 5800 revs, with 217 ft.lbs at around 4800. Loads available from about 1800 revs, and feels just like that in traffic. (only engine I've ever seen where the numerical torque number is higher than the final BHP number. Suggests there's a lot of scope for tuning with enough money, specially mid-range and up). It will happily roll about in 5th at 1000 to 1200 revs, but prefers a change-down to accelerate (I'm geared for 25 mph/1000 revs, all up with the tyres). On the other hand, it will get to around 45 in 1st, 70 something in second, 120 something in 3rd, god knows what in 4th, and 5th seems to be tagged on to no purpose other than cruising.

I can see I'm actually going to have to find out what kind of tensioner I have fitted. Bugger. Access is a bit restricted cos of the ally underach wheel covers, and also my home-made ally heat-protection plate at the rear, complete wit its seized retaining bolts. I can feel the summer coming on already.

All the best, and thanks again
Arthur.

[CorseChris]

Hi Arthur,

Those figures certainly look useful....and the torque higher than bhp does indeed suggest some capability at the top end with some work doesn't it. The Rover V8 in the Marcos we used to have was a 4.2 and standard apart from a mild cam. It made 226bhp and 250ftlb..so that 3.0 V6 is looking pretty good compared to that! Bodes well for my long-term supercharging plans.

Good luck getting at the tensioner! I've yet to experience the joys of working on the V6 once it's in the car. Soon though if all goes to plan.

Cheerrs

Chris

[Arthur]

Chris,

I like the sound of the blower - if I ever go the forced-air route, that would be far and away the first choice. I work with turbo-blowers (bloody great big ones) as part of the job, and they permanently do my head in.

Working on the engine in the car is not so bad, but.......it's as well to hoy the back off, take out any wheel arch covers and/or heat protection plates, then jack the car up a foot or so.
The only way in to the front bank, below exh level, is from underneath - fuel lines, pumps, filters, etc. Rest of it is actually pretty good.
It's at these kind of times, as you withdraw your lacerated arms, that you curse the number of trimmed-off tie-wraps you used.
I can't get the differential cover off mine in the car, but I'm assured I can get the whole thing out should I wish to - haven't put it to the test. But getting the whole lump in and out is one of the simplest jobs, and I made efforts to wire the car accordingly - everything but the fuel pump cables run along the engine, so the unzipping of I think three weatherproof plugs, the removal of the stay bars, and the uncoupling of the drive shafts leaves it free to come out. With malice aforethought, I shelled out about 3 quid per nut to put proper aircraft spec K-nuts on the exh manifold studs - at least they'll come off again when they need to.
I had to put a remote oil filter head on after the exhaust fitter smashed the original can flat, then put the tubes over it. Just barely had room to get the remote in, and it relies on a lot a lot of heat protection cloth for the rubber oil pipes. Now it's in, I would recommend anyone to take the trouble - makes cooler installation and filter changes a doddle.
The gearbox oil drain (one of 'em, anyhow), almost fouls the chassis tubes, and some advance provision here may make life simpler in the future. I have to get it on ramps and bugger about for ages to get it out and in again.

Bit of planning now pays much dividend later!

All the best
Arthur.

[CorseChris]

Thanks for the thoughts Arthur. All helpful stuff at this stage. I plan on making the top rear crossmember a bolt-in and moving the left & right diagonal round tubes way out to the sides to clear the water pump/pipework and 5th gear casings. I'd thought of using the Alfa engine loom and multi-way as the current TC installation is a bit messy.

I went to the bother of installing a removable rear bulkhead section so I'm hoping I'll be able to access some of the stuff from inside the car when the time comes. Still got to take the seats out, but that's not too tricky.


Starting to wind myself into taking the hacksaw to the chassis this coming weekend.....so any other thoughts always welcome.