Road handling

[ChrisL]

Hi Guys

Ok, some newbie Q's

Since I have never driven in a Stratos replica nor the real thing, I am wondering about their road handling. I have quite alot of experience with mid and rear engined cars, have had a couple of porshces both na and turbos and currently a modified mr2 turbo.

I noticed that the wheelbase is quite short on the stratos, and that people have everything from 205 wide tires up to 345 in the rear on the gp4. I know most of you drive your cars quite hard , but how do they handle on the limit? With sutch short wheelbase and wide track and being mid engined , is it a unforgiving viscious beast when it comes loose on the back, or is it controlable?

Please do enlighten me with your driving impressions, I know there is some good track/rally drivers on this board that might want to share their different experiences.

Thanks
Chris

[DuncanM]

I suspect, with all the adjustability inherent in the suspension of these cars that it's possible to set it up to behave exactly how you wish. Check out the september issue of Cars and Car Conversions for a short article on this: http://www.cccmagazine.com/
Those with cars will be able to give further info I have no doubt.
It is also worth bearing in mind that the Hawk chassis have a slightly different configuration to the Allora/Corse chassis (and there may be a difference between those as well).

[David May]

This could be the start of a long series... But that comment about everything being adjustable (and the Allora/Corse being very, very different) probably sums it up.
Yes, it does have quite a short wheelbase and the V6 power-train especially is hardly a lightweight, but even the worst are probably more than just a 'point-and-squirt' to drive.
The better sorted examples are definately chuckable and capable of being driven very sideways, with a high chance of getting it all back straight again if required!

Dave M

[ChrisL]

Duncan, I'm eagerly awating the magazine, since I was at work in Africa when it was released, and just came home a couple of days ago, I had to ask my local news-stand to try and dig it up for me. I should have it in a couple of days :cool:

This could be the start of a long series... But that comment about everything being adjustable (and the Allora/Corse being very, very different) probably sums it up.

I'm aware of the fact that the Transformer/Hawk replicas are more "true"(if I can use that expression) than the Allora/Corse, but the Allora/Corse has been built with a better road handling. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
How big are these differences? I'm more of a performance kind of guy, so I'm not to woried about trying to keep everything as close to original. Would the Allora/coarse be a better choice for me, or are they all just as good?

Chris

[chris.richard]

The Allora / Corse is a performance kit car that looks quite like a Stratos on the surface; the Hawk is a replica of the original: how accurate a replica is up to the builder. The performance can be improved with some reduction in authenticity, where along that spectrum you choose to go depends on you and your money. (See Chris Jarvis's advert for a pair of original door handles, or cost up a V6 on throttle bodies with LSD and suspension to match to see what I mean)

[Andrew Way]

Does anybody know if the anti-roll bars used on a Hawk are a bespoke item, modified from an OE part or a non modified OE part? I'm just about to order some extras for my HF3000 an I expect these are something you can't do without.

Cheers,

Andrew.

[roger001]

Originally posted by Andrew Way
Does anybody know if the anti-roll bars used on a Hawk are a bespoke item,

These are bespoke item, I have mine off the car at present, If you want a picture of what you get for your money I can get a photo posted if you like.

[Andrew Way]

Roger,

a picture would be great if you get a chance. I assume you get more than just a bent bar for the £200 per end!!!

Cheers,

Andrew.

P.S. I'm v. pleased with your old seats, they're just right for the car.

[David May]

Although both kits have a similar front suspension layout, the Corse uses fabricated, modern parts all round, as opposed to the Fiat/Lancia components of the original and the Hawk.
The Corse I rear end is a parallel wishbone system (as opposed to the original McPherson strut layout) which should be capable of more geometrically-correct control. Ironically the same Corse does not provide for any anti-roll bars which probably cancels out any advantage gained from the layout.

Dave M

[mogul_x]

Dave,

I thought that both the Hawk and the Corse used the Fiat 132 stub axles in the front end. Or is that only the Corse S?

Also, the Hawk also utilizes a fabricated suspension.... it just replicates a lot of 30 year old Fiat/Lancia components. Unfortunately, it does still require two relatively hard to find parts - the 132 stub axles, and the Beta strut top mounts.

Aside from those, the only Fiat items that are absolutely required are the rear hubs, wheel bearings, and lower ball joints from the front suspension, which seem readily available from aftermarket sources.

Still, I guess your point was that the Corse uses a more modern design, which should provide improved contact between the wheels and the road.

[roger001]

Here is a photo of the anti roll bars:-
Another point is that if beta strut top mounts are a problem, you can get alloy replacements from companies such as Demon tweeks, see P253 of their catalogue, however this still means you have to find theFiat upright.

[Andrew Way]

Roger,

Thats what I call quick service! Thanks.

Andrew.

[Chris Jarvis]

I never fitted the front anti roll bar on my Hawk.

Can anyone tell me what difference it would make (have made)?

[David May]

I think the point with the Corse I (not the S) is that many parts were fabricated to provide a better goemetry, not just to replicate obsolete bits. Unfortunately some of the modern parts (Ford Granada hubs etc) are themselves out of production, although still common as spare parts. Its unlikley that anybody will ever be able to compare apples with pears, but my choice of a Corse I was based on not having to source from scrap-yards.

On the subject of anti-roll bars, I feel that they do make a tremendous difference to the response and the on-the-limit handling, particularly on a softly-sprung road car. Not only does the reduced body roll improve the turn-in, the lower roll keeps the tyres more upright and reduces the tendency to 'spring-back' once grip is lost over the limit. However if you only want to go slowly over rough roads, you can live well without them!

Dave M

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by mogul_x
Still, I guess your point was that the Corse uses a more modern design, which should provide improved contact between the wheels and the road.

As for 'more modern design', I'd hesitate to say that only really applies to the Corse 'i', which has the wishbone rear suspension, as the majority of Corse kits seem to have the same Chapman/McPherson strut rear suspension as per the original.

My opinion on this matter is that, as stated earlier in this thread, there is so much adjustability in all of these suspension setups that any theoretical improvement of one design over another will have less effect than different geometry alignments as chosen by the individuals that build the kits.

With options in caster,camber, toe angle, ride height, spring rates, damper choices, wheel+tyre sizes and types, tyre pressures, anti-roll bar configurations, bushes/rose-joint types and so on I think that gives more than enough scope for someone to choose either type of kit and make a good or a bad setup for the handling of their car, regardless of the particular suspension design used by their chosen kit.

We just hope to get the setup about for our type of driving.

Cheers all,

[Stratos]

I agree with John here.

The various models of the replicas have so much flexibility in setup that you can do anything you want with them.

After some advice from Dave Walker at CCC Magazine, I've even got my Allora handling well now, and mine is one of the earliest chassis ever made. All the later cars from the respective manufacturers will be a better starting point than my car, so should be able to be made to handle fantastically well.

At this year's Abingdon Sprint, Jerry Bailey won the Stratos Class in his Hawk HF2000, but what many of you probably do not know is that, in the overall sprint results, Jerry was only beaten by a few cars, mainly some single-seaters, and a twin-turbo Metro 6R4.

I think that says a lot for the potential of the Stratos Replica.

AND, when John was racing his car in the Auto Italia series, he was able to beat many more powerful cars, including Ferraris!!!


HOWEVER, the Stratos is a small mid-engined car, with a fair degree of rearward weight bias. It is prone to a degree of twitchiness due to it's inherent design characteristics, so it must be treated with a degree of respect when on the limit, or it will bite you.

BUT, it's fabulous to drive, and you'll love it!!!!