stratos replica

[syndicate]

on e-bay toay in west yorkshire whos betting how much item no 4584298588

[Sptwoman]

Maybe you mean item 4584298585 :D

[Sptwoman]

John,
What will be interesting is the amount of questions that are posted as the description doesn't give that much away! How much do 25 year old cars go for anyway?
Regards
Allen

[SUSIT]

A good start for someone wanting a competition car but quite a lot of work needed to make a nice road car.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4584298585&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsearch%2F search.dll%3Fsatitle%3D4584298585%26catref%3DC3%26 from%3DR2%26fvi%3D1

sorry cant remember how to rename links

[kolynos]

How much difference is there between the Hawk & the Litton?

[roger001]

Can't be a 1980 car as Littons (nor Hawks) were developed then.

[guy mayers]

It's probably dated as 1980 because that was the date of registration of the original donor vehicle.........................!

Guy

[chris.richard]

Which could be a big problem if it's registered as the donor - I'll ask him.

[chris.richard]

Which could be a big problem if it's registered as the donor - I'll ask him.

:eek: There may be trouble ahead....

Hi
Due to its age the car is registered as a lancia beta, as were all kit cars of the time, correct engine , colour etc
regards steve

[syndicate]

anyway the answer 2 the question arrived on my e-mail today as close to £15000 as possible sounds alot 2 me if he sells it mine will be on e-bay quicker than he can count his cash

[John]

This car is Steve Greenwoods. This is the guy who developed the Litton/CAE and now Napiersport car from the original Allora, for those who don't already know this. It was built to an ultra lightweight specification and so was probably the ultimate example of the car at the time.
Steve of course was (and still is!) a very accomplished engineer and anyone buying this car should be assured of an excellent product.

[strat fan]

[QUOTE=SUSIT]A good start for someone wanting a competition car but quite a lot of work needed to make a nice road car.

I know the car & have been round castle combe in it many years ago, The car has only been used as a road car (with the odd trackday) as far as I'm aware. The only thing required to make it more acceptable as road car are some carpets, the door panels & dash are already trimmed. The car already has a paint finish. The car was built to be light weight in the interests of handling/performance. I believe the car weighs under 900kg. The pedalbox & gear lever mechanism are works of art machined from billet aluminium, the removeable rear crossbeam is also nicely done & allows easy removal of the engine for maintenance etc.
The difference between hawks & littons will have been dicussed a hundred times but in a nutshell- the hawk is as accurate replica as possible ie all the chassis/suspension components are made to look indentical to the original car, the interiors are typically trimmed using either original/replica components etc. The Litton took the alternative approach of using late eighties materials & design practices & created an award winning space frame chassis underneath a classic shape, the suspension geometry & construction was of Mr Greenwoods design rather than Lancias. The upshot of this being that the Hawk was the most authentic/loyal replica looking like an original in as many ways as possible. I think the line was that many parts were interchangeable with the original. Whereas the Litton looked like a Stratos (having been moulded off one) but was a completely different machine underneath with the emphasis on engineering, performance & handling rather than authenticity.
This car would be good for either road or track depending on what someones requirements were, the car is ready to go straight into the SRGT challenge alongside Roger Donnans HF3000 or with trim & a damper rebuild it would make a very brisk road car.

[BAS]

Looks like it went for £11,600 bit of a bargain!

[John]

Anythink you want to tell us Roger?

[roger001]

Give us a clue...

[John]

Well, the guy that bought Steve Greenwoods car (or the highest bidder anyway) was a "roge 100" or something like that. Thought it might be your ebay identity.... Similar to your id here....

[chris.richard]

I noticed that too, and wondered the same thing. Having 2 replicas does seem fashionable just now...

[rutthenut]

But Roger D could only race one vehicle at a time!

[guy mayers]

But Roger D could only race one vehicle at a time!

Towcar perhaps?

[strat fan]

Towcar perhaps?

I didn't know you could tow bars for hawks!! :D

[roger001]

Sorry, - not me, I'm Roger without a d. the 001 come from when I had the original club membership cards printed some time back in the 80's and took the first one for myself hence membership number 001.

[catswhiskers]

Well, my twopence worth, I notice our newest forum member is Paul164. Welcome Paul hope you enjoy the community. I did notice your full name is Paul Rodgers and you joined on 26th October. Go on, tell me, am I right for a change? ;)

Mick

[Paul164]

Yes, It is me.

I bought Steve Greenwoods Corse S, just got to figure out how to fit in it
I am 6"1.

I did see Clarkson driving one so I must have a chance !


Regards

Paul

[catswhiskers]

Well what do you know, I got that one right. :D Welcome again Paul and well done on your purchase. Hope you have lots of fun with it. :)
This really does seem to be a good year for Stratos replicas doesn't it. ;)

Mick

[CorseChris]

Nicely done Paul. Welcome. Pretty special car you have there.

Ask Andy G about lowering the floor. He is a tall chap (6' 3" wasn't it Andy?) and is in the middle of the process of lowering the already lowered floor on his Corse S

Gary Lomas (Marmott) may advise too, as he originally built the car Andy has...and has another one now. Again, a tall chap! His solution involved a lowered floor and a roof bulge this time.

[John]

Aaah well got that wrong. Welcome Paul. Perhaps we will get to see you and the car at Abingdon next year. If not before!

[Paul164]

Thanks for the info.

I am sure that I will have more questions in the not to distant...

I will read through all the old postings so not to cover old ground


Thanks Again Chaps

[strat fan]

Welcome to the forum & stratos replica ownership.
The car is a unique so enjoy.
The Corse cockpit is quite spacious you just need the correct seat pattern & pedal position, Steve isn't as tall as you but is still around 5'11 so pedals should be well positioned already.
Where abouts in the country are you based?

[Paul164]

I am in Bacup, near Rochdale, lancashire

Any members live nearby ?



Regards

Paul

[guy mayers]

Hi Paul - Liverpool close enough? Welcome to our world!
Guy

[ANDYG]

Used to be 6'4 1/2" Chris, until my racing accident - now 6'3"!!
Trouble is i seem to be getting as wide as i am tall??
In response to Paul, getting in is the easy bit, you fall in! :) - getting out is the tricky bit!! :(

[syndicate]

one lunatic in sunny blackpool totherside o pennines

[Chris J]

So, is 'registered as donor' a big problem, or not such a big problem?

I suppose anyone who's gone to all the trouble of SVA - ing will say yes, it is a big problem, and anyone happily running a registered as donor won't say anything at all!, and I wouldn't blame them.

Don't anyone pipe up if you don't want to.

I'm not going to find anything out here, am I ??

[chris.richard]

Being registered as a donor will be found out sooner or later - once online MOTing etc is fully operational, for instance. If the V5 says Beta and the insurance or MOT says something else, you ain't going to get a tax disc. Insurance is another problem, if they think they're insuring a beta, and it's actually a Corse or Hawk, they'll walk away from your claim, and you were driving uninsured. the only way round it is to re-register and go through the SVA.

[Chris J]

Chris

You're in the third camp here. That is, pre SVA, previously 'registered as donor' but now properly registered, and inspected by the local VLO at that time (the time of the registration scare when SVA was first announced).

The thing is, I have'nt heard of any cars that were/are 'registered as donor', were NOT inspected by the VLO in the pre SVA period and have been offered for SVA inspection since.

It hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it ever will as long as description is vague enough and the V5 doesn't have the 'Beta' word on it.

[Chris J]

While I'm here.

Just in case anyone has a comment to make here, please DON'T mention the names of any Stratos replica owners who you think might not have the correct registration.

[CorseChris]

Well.....FWIW, despite all the angst I suffered before and during...I don't see SVA should really be a big problem. A properly built car will only potentially have a few areas that need addressing to pass SVA. Pretty much exclusively the minimum radius type things that can be got around one way or another I'd expect.

[Chris J]

Chris

If what Chris R. says is right and the sands of time are running out for 'registered as donor' cars then having to buy and fit a new E marked windscreen (for example) would be a big problem and a very unwelcome expense.

[CorseChris]

Well, this is what I mean by 'got around'. Is a windscreen a requirement?? I don't believe it is.......just that if it's fitted, it must comply. And cracked screens are not unheard of.

[Chris J]

Thanks for that Chris.

I did mention this not fitting the windscreen for the SVA before, but I was afraid that anyone reading it would think I was being a bit silly for asking. I wonder if, in that situation the SVA inspector would think that it was a dodge too far, and that you were taking the micky for offering a car that obviously needs a windscreen, without one.

[CorseChris]

I agree it would certainly give pause for thought and could well upset an inspector if they had a mind to take it that way....but I get the impression they aren't in the slightest bit daft. My side windows would come into the same category really - I arrived with them in, they were failed as I didn't have documentary proof...so I took them out. Clearly, the vehicle was intended to have them, but if they aren't there, they can't be tested.

...but how much is a screen? Always nice to have a spare I suppose.....

(this is probably the kind of thinking that leads me to the financial state I'm in now :( )

[chris.richard]

...but how much is a screen? Always nice to have a spare I suppose.....

(this is probably the kind of thinking that leads me to the financial state I'm in now :( )

Think £500 - £800 IIRC

[chris.richard]

The thing is, I have'nt heard of any cars that were/are 'registered as donor', were NOT inspected by the VLO in the pre SVA period and have been offered for SVA inspection since.

It hasn't happened yet, and I don't think it ever will as long as description is vague enough and the V5 doesn't have the 'Beta' word on it.

There may be some out there which have been mothballed for a long time.

Picture the scene:- you've pranged your Stratos replica (or had it pranged for you a la SUSIT) :( the nice loss adjuster comes to view the wreckage and says "That's not a **** (insert the woolly description from your V5 here), it's not what the underwriters thought they were covering, sorry mate"

[Chris J]

Chris

As far as incurance goes, V5 description and insurance description don't need to tally.

Classic car insurance policies nearly always include a couple of photos and club or expert valuations. I doubt they could wriggle out of anything there, value wise.

The tax disc is the tricky one, but if it says just the word 'Lancia' and no model type and Lancia Stratos replica on the insurance and 'Lancia' on the MOT, that would do it.

Failing all that, it's time to take out the old windscreen, fit a big padded steering wheel and book the SVA?

[chris.richard]

I doubt if insurance documents say "Lancia Stratos replica" do they? That's saying what it's not. Transformer HF2000 or Allora or Napiersport Corse I is what it is.

[Chris J]

On the insurance my car was described as (after the above board V5 description change) 'Hawk Stratos Replica'. So, a bit of both. Before that, it didn't have Hawk OR Transformer in the insurance description, but that's when it was a Lancia Beta, (but not really a Beta).

[mudhut]

On the insurance my car was described as (after the above board V5 description change) 'Hawk Stratos Replica'. So, a bit of both. Before that, it didn't have Hawk OR Transformer in the insurance description, but that's when it was a Lancia Beta, (but not really a Beta).

If this is the car that I now have Chris, then I'm certainly glad you did the change of vehicle make when you did (March'98). On the V5 it is down as a Hawk HF2000 and is known by the same name to the insurers. The insurance certificate only has the registration mark though.

[ANDYG]

I doubt if insurance documents say "Lancia Stratos replica" do they?

Actually Chris, mine does!! - and has done for the last 3 years. Reason was because when i tried to insure it as a Litton Corse, the chap had no idea, Hawk? - still no idea but when i mentioned to him that it looks like a Lancia Stratos and is a replica, he said that he now knew what it was and was able to offer cover.
I have never worried about (until now), but for me, whether the car is an Allora, CAE, Hawk, Litton or Napiersport, it is still a Lancia Stratos Replica. :cool:

[Sando]

Hi all
just a little tuppence from me. If you go back to the beginning of this thread it was about the new MOT test and it will be this that catches people out (IMHO)
The new linked computer system will have all the names of recognised manufacturers of mainstream cars and replicas of cars that have been through SVA and are registered as Hawk, Transformer, Litton, Corse, Napiersport or whatever. (This is now used for the correct emmissions test for each vehicle)
What I dont think it will recoginse is 'Lancia Stratos Replica' or if it says Lancia Beta on the log book and it clearly isn't one sitting in front of the inspector. They could then refuse to do you an MOT until you go through SVA/Reg as the car is not on their database.

However saying I'm sure that for a while at least there will still be Stations that will put it through as a Beta or whatever, if they are are not sure what to do. MOT testers I've spoken to are struggling with the new system though as it is very black and white filling in the screens on the computer to issue a ticket and there is not much room for any ambiguity.

Another quick point. if you do need to go through SVA/Reg and you haven't got things like the original reciepts and donor log book, it is highly likely that you would be issued with a Q plate too......

Sorry if it all sounds a bit negative, I don't mean to be. :) I hope people do continue to be able to use their cars and not fall foul of this, but I also think if someone is going to buy a car that they should go into this with their eyes wide open, as I believe it will catch up with us sooner or later. For instance MOT, Reg details AND insurance details are all now held together on computer by big brother to be checked against each other.......even from a moving Traffic Police car.
To end on a positive note though this does allow you to TAX you car on line now :rolleyes:

Cheers
Bobster

[rutthenut]

Fair comments Bobster!

The V5 documents I have for my two (one-and-a-half) cars show the manufacturer as 'Transformer Cars Ltd' and 'Hawk Cars Ltd'.

You can look this up on-line if you have the vehicle registration and the manufacturer name, as the directgov motoring site http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/?SKIN=directgov

This will of course tally with what is on your V5 document if you've got that.

Believe that insurance documents may not have to have entirely the correct description for actual cover, so long as it is clear it is not being incorrectly declared as (say) a Beta when it is a kit car of some sort.

But I can also see potential problems with that at Road Tax (Vehicle Licence) time, which is now more electronic.

And there are definitely likely to be problems with MOT tests of unknown/incorrect manufacturers when they eventually get the on-line, higher-cost, service working...

[Chris J]

You're right that there may be difficulties when it comes to MOT identification.

I can't believe there will be a day when the MOT man will have enough data to tell the difference between a Vindicator Sprint, an Allora and a Silva Mojo?

[SUSIT]

Whats an Allora?

[SUSIT]

I know a man who does MOT tests who states as long as the chassis plate and the details on the computer match he is happy

[Paul164]

What If you get a copy of a block insurance policy, you can tax any car with that, ?

just the Reg doc and Mot need say the same thing, you can say to the MOT station the vehicle is a Lancia Beta Stratos !, if the car is registered as a donor. I doubt the MOT station would know that it is not the real name for the vehicle, so they enter lancia beta in the computer, same as the logbook. :confused:

or am I just talking twaddle, as usual ?.

Paul

[Sando]

Hard to say Paul. As Steve says, his local tester is fine about it and if your Man is less than 30 he may not even know what a Beta is.....

It would probably be more obvious to a tester if it was a more well known car such as a Cobra replica and it said Jaguar on the Log book.

Seriously, I'm glad anyone in this position is still getting their MOT / insurance and TAX ok and long may it continue for them, I don't want to come acrass as all negative about this at all, I want to see as many cars enjoyed as possible.
I had little choice, as I had to SVA and register mine for the first time anyway. Even so I think I would have transfered the name on the log book to the correct one if it was pre SVA anyway, but that pehaps just me. There was a couple of year window to do this when SVA was announced.

I do think it is unfair though if someone sells the car as properly registered, (even if they are unaware) when there is still some ambiguity about it. I would say Properly registered means it is in the name of the kit manufacturer, so do think about it, and the options carefully, if you are looking to buy.


Cheers
Rob :cool: