Fuel Pump / Filter

[AndyH]

Hi,

Getting closer with my build and now getting on with electrics...

I'm fitting a 3.0L x 12V Alfa engine and need a fuel pump / filter for it.

I'm hoping one day to upgrade from the 12V to the 24V

I didn't keep the pump from the donor car.

Anyone have any recommendations on a good pump / filter combination.?

Many Thanks

Andrew

[SUSIT]

Look on ebay. I got a new Bosch high pressure pump for £28 if I remember right. Various people use different solutions. I think Dave watson has always used pumps out of a 2 litre fuel injected vauxhall with no problems and he is using a motified 3 litre alfa V6
filters try here http://www.europaspares.com/
Also thread about filters here http://www.stratossupersite.com/forum/showthread.php?t=889

[CorseChris]

Early Golf GTi unit is a good option - includes swirl-pot (vital), pump & filter in a single unit.

[AndyH]

Many Thanks for the info,

Does anyone have any info on fuel pressure and flow rates??

Andrew

[Sando]

Hi Andy
I've recently looked at this too, all the books I've read recommend Bosch or AC delco as the best. Try FSE (http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/injection.htm) They have the graphs and details of the popular Bosch pumps. About 2 litres per min flow rate at 3 bar should be ok. If you go too mad you'll just pump fuel back to the tank all the time in a big heating up cycle, or has happened in some cases overflowing one tank. In Turbo engines high flow at high pressures is crittical as the injectors are fighting against boost, but in a normally aspirated engine so long as there is good enough flow for max power at the right pressure then ther is no point in just circulating hot fuel.(IMHO :) )

Another consideration is the fittings on the pump and if you want threaded or tube type ends

Hope that helps
Rob

[AndyH]

Many thanks for the info.
E-bay.. why didn't I think of that before... now got a BOSCH fuel pump.
Cheers
Andrew

[igosling]

All,

This is more for information that anything else. Whilst I could see that a certain Bosch pump was a compatible part, I couldn't find the exact details on the forum (may be I just haven't searched deep enough)

Bit of digging and the Bosch Part No is - 0580464070

This thing is fitted to loads of cars from BMW's to Land Rovers.

Runs at about 2.3 Ltrs/Min @ 3 bar, which is what is needed.

The following link will provide any info if you want to go digging around a breakers

http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/otp.pdf

Regards

Iain

[chris.richard]

includes swirl-pot (vital),

Or is it? The bottom of the Hawk tanks are about the same area as a swirl pot, I doubt if the fuel surge in that area is enough to get air in the lines.

[strat6v]

The pump and swirl pot assembly has the return line connected to it also. Much better in my opinion. Gone that way myself.

[chris.richard]

The pump and swirl pot assembly has the return line connected to it also. Much better in my opinion. Gone that way myself.
The problem with connecting the return to the swirl pot is that the hot fuel returning is then recycled back to the engine again. If the return goes to the tank, you feed the engine cooler, denser fuel.

[strat6v]

The return swirls around the pot and mixes with cooler fuel at the same time. Also after the pump there is a metal coil which the fuel passes through which would be cooled by the volume too. As i see it if the pump/swirl pot was no good and didn't work properly then they wouldn't be fitted as standard. The other plus is that the pump is sucking fuel from a volume and not from a t piece in a pipe. If fuel levels were low and during a long hard corner, the fuel kind of migrated over then the other side would let air in.The thinking these days is to have a swirl pot to feed the injector pump and another low pressure pump to fill the pot, or in our tall tank case, just stick the complete assembly in and save on the second pump. If return temps are a problem then just stick another coil of metal pipe in the return at the tank bottom. Any decent forced induction installations always have swirl pots to save frying the motor with lean fueling due to fuel starvation.

People keep telling me to keep it simple, so i did. Why re-invent the wheel?
saves on buying another pump too!!

John.

[rutthenut]

I doubt if the fuel surge in that area is enough to get air in the lines.

You would be surprised...

I run the fuel supply and return from the left-hand tank, with a large balance pipe between the two (which I shut off when racing to stop fuel transfer and subsequent overflow).

Long, hard cornering gets the fuel running up the (sloping) side of the tank and the car splutters when trying to accelerate out of the corner.

Keeping at least 1/3 full seems to avoid the problem.

I also have tank foam, and that leads to fuel aeration as it circulates from top to bottom of tank. When running low fuel levels, that results in a lean mixture.

If you take the feed from a T-piece between the tanks, fuel transfer from side to side *can* lead to air being drawn in from the pipe, but only when fuel levels are low and has all moved to one side.

J.R.

[pimms]

The thinking these days is to have a swirl pot to feed the injector pump and another low pressure pump to fill the pot, John.

What type of low pressure pump do i need to fill the swirl pot?

[strat6v]

Have a small tank made and stick the complete alfa donor assembly in.

[Martin K]

In all the tanks I have seen that are built for competition and include a swirlpot, the return line always feeds into the swirl pot. If you are worried abou the heat in the fuel, a cooling it before it returns to the tank is the best option of course; trying to cool the fuel already in the tank as it enters the system (i.e. before or after the pump) would be far less effective.

[pimms]

Have a small tank made and stick the complete alfa donor assembly in.

Thanks John,
But i already have a swirl pot ( 1 ltr. capacity, and a hi-pressure pump, all i need is a lwo pressure pump to fill the swirl pot, any ideas on that?

Cheers, Pim

[Martin K]

Thanks John,
But i already have a swirl pot ( 1 ltr. capacity, and a hi-pressure pump, all i need is a lwo pressure pump to fill the swirl pot, any ideas on that?

Cheers, Pim

We use two facet red tops in parallel - but that may be a bit over the top in terms of capacity for your application and just one may suffice.

However, red tops are interrupter pumps and quite noisy. I believe there are quieter rotary pumps available that will do the job. I don't have further info but hope that will help.

[pimms]

However, red tops are interrupter pumps and quite noisy. I believe there are quieter rotary pumps available that will do the job. I don't have further info but hope that will help.

Would this be a suitable pump: http://cgi.ebay.nl/ELECTRIC-FUEL-PUMP-BRAND-NEW-UNIVERSAL-FACET-12vol_W0QQitemZ330098388067QQcategoryZ33555QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem ?

[Timberwolf]

The car builder solutions company that advertises in PPE Which Kit etc does one:
http://www.nfauto.co.uk/fuel_pump.htm

it's like a modern version of the su one fitted to the likes of mg's etc just sits and ticks quietly to itself. I have one on my Lotus elite ( :eek: I have a seventies wedge fetish only recently sated by a stratos!), fuels twin delloto's merrily. Swivel input and outputs help installation. Plastic body so is quite light and two bolt fixing IIRC 'bout 4-5" long 3" dia.

Hope that helps