Hawk Alfa rear brake gotcha

[chris.richard]

I've just managed to get my rear wheels to go round. Everything seemed fine until I bolted the wheels on, when it seized solid. It turned out to be the brake disc fouling on the caliper mounting bracket. My Alfa 164 brakes come from a 24v, and fit fine without the dogbone 2mm spacer. It was the offset caused by the spacer that was causing the jam. There might be a difference between 12v & 24v brakes.
Hope this helps somebody save some time - took me ages to work it out! ;)

[Bernard]

Hi Chris
I had the same problem.... I think I mentioned it on the 4 to 5 stud thread about a year ago !....Mine were off the 12V car.
This area needs to be approached carefully. particularly when the assembly is fully loaded i.e. on the road !
Bernard

[Sptwoman]

Apart from slightly different size dimensions the 164 12V and 24v have, can someone quote the difference in the inset / offset please? I'd like a little more inboard positioning of the disc if possible.

[mudhut]

Can measure a new Alfa 164 24V front disc for you at the w/e if you'd like.

[Sptwoman]

Peter, That would be very helpful, thanks. There was an article I read by Roger D and Chris Richards I think re the 12 & 24V offsets but I can't find it and I can't remember if there was any ref to the actual dimensions.

Allen

[Chris J]

Allen/Peter

Here's the measurements that Mick gave me for standard Alfa discs a while back:

Information for you Chris.

Rear Brake disc;
Internal diameter is 126mm. and is 44mm deep from face. Overall diameter is 251mm and disc thickness is 10mm

Front brake disc;

Overall diameter is 284mm and thickness (over vents) is 22mm. Obviously 5 stud pattern.

Hope this is useful.

Regards,
Mick.

[Sptwoman]

Chris, The front dimensions quoted are for the 12V I'm wondering what the 24V is as they are different inc the offset,

Allen

[Sando]

Allen try the EBC catalogue for dimensions EBC (http://www.ebcbrakes.com/catalogues.html)
The later 24v discs are 1mm less offset I think, but it tells you in their catalogue on the right hand side.

May be worth looking the later Integrale evo as well, but may be the same disc though. Some of the discs on other Alfa Diesels are big too. There was one on there that was just over 300mm and 5 stud if I remember right.

cheers
Rob

[Sptwoman]

Thanks Rob, Been through a few catalogues and I'm struggling with alternative discs. What other marques use 98mm PCD and 5 stud like the Alfa I can try?
Also any ideas on front and rear master cylinders required for the following setup using a Tilton balance bar and standard Hawk brake pedal?
Front = 4 pot with 38mm /32mm pistons.
Rear = 4 pot with 28mm / 24mm pistons.

I've read a few articles, which have resulted in a headache(s)!! Help would be appreciated.

Allen

[Sando]

Hiya. Mainly just the Fiat empire I think. I'm still on 4 stud so I haven't looked much further. They tend to be the same discs used across all the cars though ie Fronts - Fiat coupe turbo same as early Integrale etc. If you are looking for solid discs you may have more to choose from. I'm stilll single m/c too so can't advise on that other than whats already been said in the other threads.

Have you considered a spacer outside of the disc (and slightly longer studs if needed) to give you more wheel clearance. Not ideal, but much cheaper than having some bells made up to give you further inboard Willwood / AP or the like rotors....... but thats where I think I'd be looking next. Willwood do some blank bells to fit their discs that may help. - (Rally Design.)

I have similar issue fitting front Brembos with the clearance on my road wheels. Unfortunately budget at the moment just doesn't allow for changing m/c to suit, or change everything to 5 stud. So I've stuck with big single pots for now.......... but prooving ample. :)

cheers Rob

[mudhut]

Hope this is of some use. The dimension marked 38mm may be a little less, around 37mm - had to measure it at home without all the correct stuff!

[Sptwoman]

Thanks Peter, Accordig to the EBC catalogue the disc height of the 12V is 43mm and 24V is 44mm. This is measure as if the disc was placed on the floor and you measure it's full height. How does this relate to your dimensions?

Allen

[mudhut]

The thickness of the material at the bottom of the disc is 6.7 (I omitted this from the pic - will redo and repost it).

The "38mm height" was variously 37.9mm down to 36.8mm so the dimension you want could be anywhere from 43.5mm to 44.6mm. Seems 44mm is a good number to use.

I'm somewhat embarrassed that I cannot measure this properly at home so I'll take the thing off the Alfa and put it on a plate, do it properly and post a correction. The brakes are all out at the moment anyway.