Heating-unit like original Stratos?

[quick_andreas]

for next winter season I plan to replace the Hawk heating unit below the dashboard by

something similar to what has been installed in the original Stratos. The reason is that any

maintenance below the dashboard is getting difficult (I have also the wiper-motor below) and

bleeding the coolant system takes long. I have done it now twice and it will be the last

time with this unit. I wonder if anybody can give me a hint:

1) Which heating unit to go for (similar to original Stratos, installed in front of the

windscreen on left side (I have a RHD-car). Maybe somebody has gone this way already.

Reduced heating power is a non-issue for me, since the car is off the road in winter-time.

2) Any advises in generall to bleed the AR 3.0 V6 unit. Even Alfa claims that it takes

sometimes long to do so....even weeks after I get air out of the radiator bleeding-tap.

Many thanks, have fun

Andreas

[Stratos]

Andreas,

Before changing the heater, just to get a method of bleeding it, consider ways of fitting a bleed valve to it.

I don't know the layout of the Hawk heater system, but would you be Ok with a bleed valve on one of the heater pipes? If so, you can get silicone hoses with bleed valves fitted. (I have one going into my radiator because the radiator does not have a bleed valve.)

[quick_andreas]

Hi David,

I thought already to fit a bleeding-valve and I am sure to find a way - but I want the space below the dash free. It is simlpy too crouded there...

Andreas

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by quick_andreas
I wonder if anybody can give me a hint:

1) Which heating unit to go for (similar to original Stratos, installed in front of the

windscreen on left side (I have a RHD-car). Maybe somebody has gone this way already.

I guess you are after some sort of 'snail-type' fan assembly, which I thought was what Ken Tomblin had fitted to his car (the one with the Rothmans livery). I don't know where you get that type of unit, but I've a feeling some earlier British cars used something similar.

Also, I don't know if the heater matrix is part of the fan housing and assembly, or if that is mounted further along the system with ducting to it.

As for bleeding the Alfa V6, one requirement is that the coolant system includes pipework to and from the header tank, which allows some amount of self-bleeding as it circulates. There is a small bore pipe from the throttle housing, which should go into the header tank. There should also be a connection from that tank to a high point on the main water pipes, ideally somewhere near the thermostat housing.

There is also the issue of bleeding the radiator as well as the engine area in the Strat, since air will collect in the radiator without flowing through the pipework to the engine and the water pump.

[quick_andreas]

Hello John,

thanks for the hints. As for the bleeding issue I already installed on top of thermostat a new self-made plug connected with a small rubber hose ending in the header tank. Unfortunately in the first shot it ended above water level in the header tank. As a result the header tank at increasing engine temperatur (= pressure) pumped the air into this pipe, which was like anti-bleeding... Currently it is off duty, I think I will simply connect it to the hose BELOW water level.

The hose from the throttle to the header tank is in place (this is ending above water level) , I think my main problem is simply to have enough places to bleed (currently two: Thermostat and on top of the radiator, but not the heater). Currently anyhow the air is out and until next winter I wil not touch it again.

Many regards, Andreas

PS: Any hints as for the "snail-type" heater unit still welcome....

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

This one is a bit expensive but seems pretty close to what you're looking for.

John B.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1854933118

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by JohnB_SPY8808053
This one is a bit expensive but seems pretty close to what you're looking for.

Does sound quite expensive, even for a brand new part.

At least it gives us a clue as to what donor cars to look for if hoping to get this type of item...

I'm sure that something like this is/was fiited to the Triumph Stag, or something older than that, but British in origin. Anyone know?

[mogul_x]

John,

I think Guy Mayers knows which British model uses a similar blower. I know he described it to me once, but I can't remember all af the specifics. I'm pretty sure that it's what he has in his car, but I might be wrong there.

I seem to recall that the blower is from a Triumph, possibly a Spitfire or Herald. I think some modifications to the housing were required to make it look more like the unit in the Stratos. The end result is something that looks a lot like the unit that Ken Tomblin has in his car. Maybe I'll ask Guy to comment here on the forum.

[Jeff Davison]

This may work, looks very similar:

http://www.mossmotors.com/cgi-bin/db2www/mossmotors/MossUSA/shop/ViewProducts.mac/report?T=33&PlateID=2854


Jeff Davison

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
This may work, looks very similar...

Good sleuthing! :cool:

Looks like the blower assembly could be used in the lower front location, with a longer connecting duct to the heater matrix, which may still be under the dash. If the matrix is mounted near to the blower, there is then a requirement for a new housing to hold that and then duct the warm air to the radiator vents.

Hey, I might even try to get one of these blowers to fit into my orange car, which (still) doesn't have a heater but just has a large fan fitted under the dash with no real ducting!

So, time for a nose around breakers yards for Midgets and Sprites, I guess.

[Chris Jarvis]

So, time for a nose around breakers yards for Midgets and Sprites, I guess.

John

I've got one of those in my garage. I tried it on my Stratos before I sold it for some force fed fresh air ducted through the bulkhead to the back of the dash. The fan didn't spin fast enough, or it didn't blow hard enough anyhow, so I took it off for some more head scratching.

You don't need to look for just Spridgets, they were fitted to just about every 1950s BMC car. I nicked mine from my Austin A30.

It's free to a good home. You might want to do something to boost the fan motor speed though.

I had thought of ducting some rammed air from that gap between the inner wing and headlamp box, then I saw that you'd already done that on your orange car.

[Jeff Davison]

Here's a pic from my archive that I came across.
If I can find a blower motor with it's "snail" in this orientation, this is how I'll get "forced air" in my cabin.

Jeff Davison

[guy mayers]

The picture posted by Jeff is of a genuine Stratos. On the obsessive detail thread only one person I know of has duplicated the inner wing detail with a blanking plate to cover the hole that was generally covered by Lancia once these units had been removed and replaced with a scoop fitted under the front of the car. That man is Geoff Turton! He also manufactured a replica of the heater core and box fitted under the bonnet into the bulkhead area. As far as I recall there was no fan on this car but I await Mark and Marcias reply to the contrary, being the current owners. On the practical side of things a good heater fan is essential, if the screen becomes fogged it can be impossible to clear. My car started life with Gerry's unit fitted, very similar to Austin Mini ones but specifically bracketed for the Stratos. Unfortunately the propellor type fan is too weak and I ended up modifying it a few years ago. I retained the heater matrix and casing, removed the bottom fan motor housing and replaced it with a Beta fan assembly, basically a snail housing a paddle wheel fan. The Beta assembly is too large to use complete but all I did was to cut it in half and use only one ot the two fan units. It all fits neatly under the dashboard and works brilliantly. Not very original though in this case I think practicality is more important. Guy

[quick_andreas]

In respect of the fan-unit I found out in the meantime, that Opel Vectras and Omegas around 95 - 95 must have had a very similar radial-fan from Bosch. I bought on from a used-part dealer for 30 EUR. It makes a lot of wind... Still open for me is the question of the heater-unit to be placed as in the original car. I measured, that the outer dimensions must not exceed 15 cm x 15 cm. Actually most current cars have bigger units. I have a friend at Behr, one of the biggest companies worldwide in making air-conditioning systems for cars. He tries to find out what could fit. If anybody else out there has an idea it is most welcome.

Have fun working on your cars...
Andreas

[guy mayers]

Hi Andreas, Geoff Turton used to make a small unit that looked like the original Stratos one, it fitted under the scuttle panel and lets air into the passenger compartment above the passengers feet. It does mean cutting a big hole in the bulkhead and some careful waterproofing but I will ask Geoff if he has an old one lying around and how much one costs shipped to you. I'm not sure if it included the heater matrix and valve or not but I will try to find out.
Guy

[Jeff Davison]

Found a heater core that is very close to original looking. The core is housed in a square box. The box would have to have a square hole cut (and caulked as Guy mentions) in the front firewall/scuttle. It is about the same size as original and the blower would need to be mounted in an original position (Stradale or Gp4 style).

The core / box is from a Ferrari 308.

The Ferrari uses two, one left and one right. The Stratos would use just a single.

Next time I'm at the local Ferrari breaker, I'll take a digital shot of it and post here.

Jeff

[chris.richard]

Is this any use? from www.holden.co.uk

Austin Healey Sprite Part number: 080.236
Intake is 4" (102 mm) diameter, outlet is 3 1/4" (83 mm) dia meter. 12 volt operation.
Stocked in:
Each Weight: 0(kg) Price: £112.00 Colour: n/a Size: n/a Catalogue page: 106

[chris.richard]

also:-
Austin Healey 3000 Part number: 080.232
As shown in the picture, for opposite hand to this refer to 080.235.
Stocked in:
Each Weight: 1.518(kg) Price: £143.00 Colour: n/a Size: n/a Catalogue page: 106

[Chris Jarvis]

As I said on the first page of this thread. I've got one of these Smiths blowers, if anyone wants it. It's off an Austin A30 not an Austin Healey.

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
Next time I'm at the local Ferrari breaker, I'll take a digital shot of it and post here.

Jeff

They don't really have a dedicated ferrari breaker, do they?:eek:

[mogul_x]

Originally posted by chris.richard
They don't really have a dedicated ferrari breaker, do they?:eek:

Chris,

I'm afraid so. If Jeff's talking about the company I think he is, it's a place called T. Rutlands. They specialize in new and used Ferrari parts. I bought a pair of Ferrari Dino dash vents from them for my Stratos.

And they are located in Tucker, Georgia, which is probably only 25 miles or so from Jeff. So, he really does have a "local Ferrari breaker".

Truth, as it turns out, IS stranger than fiction....

[Jeff Davison]

OK....as promised

a shot of the 308 fan and heater core assembly.

There are more shots in the photo section
(give me 15 minutes as I'm posting here first).

The shots in the gallery are a bit larger.

the core case is made of plastic and should fit very well in the front bulkhead giving a very stock / original appearance.

Jeff Davison

[mogul_x]

Jeff,

That 308 heater unit looks very tidy. Do I even want to know how much it costs?

Yeah, I suppose I do. How bad is it?

Thanks,

[Jeff Davison]

I can estimate the cost. I cleaned it up a bit for the photos.

I bought a pile of stuff yesterday from Rutlands and Ted gave me an all inclusive "dead Presidents" price. (for you brits that just means a cash deal that doesn't get booked)

I bought 1 pair of 308 intake manifold to head gaskets, 8 head coolant rail gaskets for the 308, an oil filter block gasket. a pair of head coolant rails (I have to modify them for clearance with the to be mounted supercharger) and the heater core, all for $150.

My seat of the pants figuring is $75.00

YMMV (webspeak for your mileage may vary). Depends on Teds mood and if it's a booked sale or not. Also I think he gave me a bit of a break cuz ofa secondary shared business / friend relation.

I'd say worse case would be $120 or so for someone off the street with a credit card.

I got the fan elsewhere but it's a standard SPAL with a SPAL part number. Probably can be sourced many places. A used one probably could be gotten from Rutlands as well as I saw more than a few laying around. Can't tell you what he wants for em however.


Jeff

[quick_andreas]

Since I started this story here is my status:

I found a very small heater-unit from a Suzuki SJ413 Jepp, it is about 15 cm x 15 cm plus the inlet and outlet on one side. Curently I am on the drawing-board to design the box, made of Alu-sheets. The fan I found is from Bosch out of a Opel-Vectra, similar to the one pictured above, but it needs some modification. Both parts available AND cheap. As soon as my drawings lead to something ready I will post it in the picture-gallery.

Have fun, Andreas

[quick_andreas]

The heater is ready now. Next step is is to fix the blower. As soon as everything is ready I will make an article for the newsletter, or publish it in the forum.

Have fun, Andreas

[quick_andreas]

I placed some pictures about the build-history in the picture-gallery. Keyword: Heater

The text to the pictures I place here, because this file format is not accepted in the picture gallery - why?

Have fun

Andreas

PS: The heater works great, even below 0 Celsius...