Beta crankshaft nut removal - how?

[mudhut]

Hi all

Nearly got the head off but...

Can't hold the crankshaft to undo the nut. Anybody tell me how to hold the crankshaft still without removing the gearbox and jamming the flywheel?

Is putting the car in gear/handbrake on OK? - looks like an awful lot of load is going on the gears.

We used to stuff rags down through the spark plug hole but somehow I think this will not be recommended here!

[strat6v]

Hi Peter.

Does the beta have an access at the bottom of the bellhousing(underneath) so you can jam the flywheel?

[pimms]

Hi Peter,
I used to jam the flywheel on my old Opel by removing the starter and then jam it through the starter mountinghole, maybe thats possible on a Beta?

[Sando]

Hi Peter
Remove the Stone (Sh1t) guard from the bottom of the bellhousing. Use a short lenght of flat bar with two holes drilled in it at either end. There are threaded holes in the back of the flywheel and using one of the stoneguard mountings you can bolt it up tight.

You'll need a very long bar on the very large socket. I recommend taking the back bodywork off to get a swing at it with the long bar if it's the engine in your car. As you can gues from this it is F. F. F. Tight. Another tip which someone may be to confirm here, as I can't remember (it was about 4 years ago I last had it off :eek:) .....Check with a Haynes manual first to see if is left or right handed, you don't want to be trying to tighten it up some more ;)

PS Definitly don't recommend stuffing anything down a plug hole.....ever!!!

Good luck
Rob.

[CorseChris]

Best bet is to use an air impact driver really, had to resort to this some years back when working on my old Beta Coupe IE....although I just used the long bar and stick it in 3rd technique on my Strat engine. If you can't get access to an air impact, Robs method for locking it sounds good as well.

It's a right-handed ('normal') thread BTW.

[shaun]

As a bodge it and scarper measure the cambelt can be pulled/pushed thru the crank pulley/block gap(carefully). The crankshaft nut can be 'hit' to flatten the internal threads to help get it off, I would insist a new nut after though - these, apparently, are very hard to find.

When I need to do this again the air impact driver is the way to go, nut should be 38mm.

Just out of interest, why do you need to take the pulley off?

[mudhut]

Thanks all for the help. Here's my view:

Rob - stuffing rags in the plug hole - did this with sidevalve engines - you put enough rag in to hold the piston well down the bore. Wasn't really planning to do this ;). Thanks for the info re a bar bolted up. Will get onto this.

Chris - in gear and long spanner - if I end up heaving on a long lever, I'm going to put loads more torque through the crank/transmission than it was designed for. This load wil be sustained and static, likely borne by the contact between single teeth in gearbox. Third gear would increase the torque at the diff. Didn't like the sound of this.

Pimms - this would be good if I could jam the flywheel effectively. Might try to get hold of an old starter and lock it up and fit it - or make a special device. Either way I'd need to get the inlet manifold off first, I think.

John/Rob - remove stoneguard from bellhousing - didn't know you could get this off on its own. Haven't been fully underneath it yet as it is quite difficult to get up high (wheel ramps narrow, ground clearance etc.) Will get onto this and later weld up new ramps etc.

Shaun - I did try a little but I didn't think the belt would come out through the gap without damage. Have to remove the belt to replace it while the head is off. If I can't slip it out, I can't get the new one in. Maybe I could have done this but don't want to get a new belt damaged/oily trying.

All - have bought an air impact wrench -and am prepared to use it. This is the Guy Croft approved technique, he told me today.

Guy Croft has suggested I get the head skimmed as a precaution and the block as well.

Here goes my next month's salary. Again, thanks to all.

[mudhut]

Shaun - could you elaborate a bit on the hitting of the nut to bruise the thread? Hit how - straight on?

I thought about drilling it and splitting it but then found a pic that shows a small spigot on the nut that extends inside the pulley hole.

New nuts are still available from the Monte Hospital but are over £8 each plus VAT.

[shaun]

Hit the nut via some form of large punch as if to push the nut further onto the crank. I have so far slipped the TC belts thru the gap, carb engine pulleys are easier than injection pulleys, I think. On the V6 the crank nut was a b'tard but after the hammer technique did eventually come undone. On the V6 I had a long 3/4 drv bar with an extension resting on an axle stand going to the 41mm socket(think it is 41) Someone else gripped the crank pulley with a loaned pair of the biggest pipe grips known to mankind. The pulley was protected with a pair of old jeans but did still suffer.

Alfa mechnics will advise the use of an air impact driver, so use an impact driver - it should be so much easier, even if you have to take the car to a garage.

Whish I'd never confessed to the hammer technique.

Of course, getting the nut off is only the start as on a bad day the pulley will be well and truly rusted on.

[alfagene]

I have used a piece of 1/4 inch rope pushed into the spark plug hole to lock up the engine. Just make sure that the cylinder is on the compression stroke so that both valves are closed. Also leave the end of the rope hanging out the plug hole so that you can extract it afterwards.

Another method I have used on my Alfa is to place a socket with a breaker bar on the nut, rotate the engine as necessary to wedge the breaker bar against the frame and then turn the key to run the starter. It spins the nut right off.

Both of these methods have been recommended many time on the alfa digest.

Gene

[CorseChris]

Peter, well, I did say an air impact was the best way! I've used the stick it in 3rd method quite a few times over the years on assorted TCs with no ill effects. The limiting item in the whole chain is the clutch - it'll soak up shocks (if you happen to be whacking the bar with a heavy object) and if the torque gets too high, it'll slip.

But an air impact is always the best way. No undue stresses through the crank, no long bars likely to fly off and break your knuckles, just lots of short, sharp shocks at exactly the right spot to undo the nut. Oh, and don't forget to use a proper thick-wall socket!

Shaun, no shame in the proper use of a hammer!! In extremis, I've been known to use a hammer and cold chisel. Always last resort though.

[quetech]

Peter

It is a nut and not one of the later units with a left hand thread bolt ?

Mike

[mudhut]

Hi all.

Nut is off. Bought a cheap air impact thingy and borrowed a rather asthmatic 1HP compressor. Took a full five minutes of going at continuously for the nut to start to shift. Didn't spin off either but unwound slowly - not rusty and as far as I can see, thread not crossed.

Right hand thread nut, not left hand bolt but thanks for the pointer in case I change to later unit, Mike.

FWIW, I have never had the "use the starter motor" method work - not even once - with the spanner starting from a jammed position. Always had to let the t-bar whip round with the crank and whack against something solid to crack the thread.

Head saga continues in new thread. Thanks for all the help so far.