New Guy here scoping out the Eastern USA Stratos scene...

[fengshui]

Hi all,

I am a moderator over at www.clubwrx.net and have been a fan of rallying since I picked up my World Rally Blue WRX Sedan in June 2002. Ever since I have learned more and more about the best of all motorsports, and the most awesome cars to ever turn their wheels on a special stage. My all time favorite being the awesomely powerful Delta S4. The Stratos has always interested me with its rugged simplicity, and when I found this site along with Hawk Replica cars, I had to pop in and say hi. I live in New Jersey, USA and was curious to see who is undertaking a HF kit build in the area or had any detailed pictures of a build-up. I was originally thinking of a Caterham 7 build, but as a major rally fan I know nothing would beat a Stratos. Anyway I hope to learn more from this great site dedicated to one of the most butt-kicking cars of all time.

I do alot of Road Rallying in the US and my car is kitted out for it. Here is a link to my car if you want to check it out (the blue new-age WRX with the Hella lights): http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/showthread.php?t=87020&highlight=rally

-Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris,

If you're in New Jersey, then I am certainly the closest person to you with an HF in progress. I live in Kenilworth, which is very near Pottstown, Pennsylvania. I think the farthest I could possibly be from you is three hours, but I'm only an hour or two from most of New Jersey.

I took delivery of a new kit in March 2002, but haven't gotten a lot done owing to numerous distractions. The kit looks something like a car, but actually is little changed from its "as delivered" condition. You'd be able to get a very good idea what to expect if you were thinking about taking one on yourself.

I do have a few photos (the old fashioned paper kind) of the build so far, but since you're relatively close, you'd probably be better off coming to see it in person. Send me an E-mail or a Private message sometime, and we can try to get together. Otherwise, give me a call. You can catch me by day at 610-988-2549, or evenings and weekends at 610-705-0594.

Welcome aboard!

[fengshui]

Scott,

Sounds good. How far are you from Wellsboro, PA? I will be heading out there in a few months to spectate the annual Sussquehanna Trail Pro-Rally. I'd love to check out your build and see what difficulties would be involved. For us unlucky Americans who can't easily source some of the donor car parts that our European counterparts can, is it possibly to dump any old FF engine/drivetrain configuration in the back. I am thinking if I can't get an Alfa Romeo drivetrain, I think some of the best powerplants could be an Acura TL, Mitsubishi Eclipse DSM FWD Turbo 2.0L, or something that I can tweak to get a good deal of power out of. What sort of dimensions should I look for when researching transverse engine/transverse gearbox combinations. Thank for all the info. I'm sure it will be a few years off before I will be able to have the space for a build, but its nice to set some goals early and know what I need to know.

-Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris,

I'm about 4 hours from Wellsboro - a little over 200 miles. Wellsboro is in the upper middle area of the state, I'm in the Southeast corner, maybe 45 minutes Northwest of Philadelphia.

As far as donor parts go - you can get just about everything you need for the car over here. Notable exceptions are front stub axles (spindles) and related parts, and correct front indicator lamps for Stradale bodied cars, but they're getting scarce everywhere. The only other parts that you'll have to send overseas for are outer CV joints and hubs if you opt for a 5-lug wheel.

If you stick with 4-lug wheels, that isn't a problem, since Lancia Betas are still easy to find, and dirt cheap. Front stub axles come from the Fiat 132, a model never imported here, but are available through Hawk Cars, as they've taken the trouble to secure a limited supply for customer cars.

The engine bay is pretty roomy, so you shouldn't have too much trouble making the engine of you choice fit back there. The cars can be ordered with brackets for Lancia Beta 4-cylinder, Alfa or Ferrari Dino v-6, and Ferrari 308 v-8 power. I think there are a couple of Honda engined cars out there, but I'm not sure if that's available as a standard kit from Hawk cars. The big problem with picking something from a Japanese car is that you'll have to sort all of the engine mounts, halfshafts, linkages, etc. yourself. Probably require a layout of the engine bay, and a little trial and error to make it all work.

[fengshui]

How did you go about ordering your kit, how long until it arrived, and what condition did it arrive in? I know Caterham has a small, but budding US distribution chain of various vendors who will work with you to get the car you want to build. I also know there are far fewer people building Hawks than Caterhams and was curious if there is anyone this side of the pond facilitating getting the kit and parts over.

I am about 1 - 1.5 hrs from Philidelphia and my buddy lives just NE of Philly. Perhaps the next Road Rally we do in the area we can meet up. Most of our Rallies are in upstate NY, but we used to compete in the Tri-State series outside of Philly last year. I am hoping they run it again.

-Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris,

Ordering the kit was easy. I'd contacted Gerry Hawkridge at Hawk cars, discussed which options and accessories I wanted, sent him a written order via E-mail, then wired him a deposit. I paid GBP2000 up front, and the balance upon completion.

I ordered the car in early September 2001, and it arrived in March 2002. It was shipped on a heavy wooden pallet with a light wooden framework around it, and wrapped in several layers of plastic and bubble wrap. Eveything arrived in good shape, no problems.

Importation was also a snap, if a little pricey. I hired a broker to handle the paperwork, and I had to arrange transportation from the customs clearing house to my residence. The broker was cheap - it was the duties, dock fees, and transportation that added up.

Jeff Davison is currently Hawk Cars' U.S. representative. He's in Atlanta, Georgia. I know he can supply you with literature and information, but I'm not sure if he's actually importing new customer cars yet. He was going to work out landed costs, but demand has been very low, so I don't know if he's had the opportunity. If you want to contact him, you should be able to look him up on the member list here. His username is "Jeff Davison".

I also wanted to let you know up front - the Hawk is in a totally different league than the Caterham in terms of build difficulty. It requires a lot of hand finishing, and many more hours to finish. Hawk cars' estimates 400 hours of labor, and I've heard several opinions that it's actually upwards of 1000. It's definitely going to be a lot more involved than a Caterham or Factory 5 kit.

[chris.richard]

Chris,

The only other parts that you'll have to send overseas for are outer CV joints and hubs if you opt for a 5-lug wheel.



Didn't you get the Delta Integrale in the States?

[fengshui]

We didn't even get the Delta, period. There are a ton of great Japanese and European cars that never made it over. Escort Cossies, Skyline GT-Rs, Lancia anything except the Scorpions (I believe), until recently the Impreza WRX (STi) and Lancer Evolution, Lotus Elises (until now), Morgan Aero 8s (although that is changing), and a bunch more. I would love to own a Delta Integrale (or even S4 :p ) as I heard from auto journalists that they can be considered the spiritual ancestor to the modern day Impreza Turbo (WRX).

-Chris

[mogul_x]

Chris R.

Lancia stopped importing cars into the USA in 1982. The Beta range was the last new Lancia officially imported. We got the Coupe, HPE, Scorpion, Spyder (called a Zagato over here), and I think the Beta sedan, although I've never seen one.

I know there are a couple of Integrales over here, but they were smuggled into the country privately. I've been trying to figure out how to get my hands on one of them. There is no dealer network to support them, so all parts have to be imported. I carried the Delta CV joints home in my luggage the last time I was at Abingdon.

[stewart]

Hi Chris,

I'm a fellow WRX owner, MY99, fairly heavily modified but not used for anything other than a daily driver at this stage. I also have a Hawk with a Nissan Maxima (Cefiro) 3L V6 in the back. Was a major exercise to get it in with a lot of modifications but it can be done and I'm happy to send you some photos of the build if you like. I have some but my scanner is playing up so you may have to wait a bit until I get it fixed to get more.

I'd certainly advise from my experience to try really hard to get the Alfa engine. It would make the build a lot easier, quicker and cheaper. Mind you, now that the 350Z has the VQ35DET motor which is an advance on my VQ30DE I am thinking that there will be lots of go fast goodies for the future if I ever progress that far!

Let me know if you want some photos and good luck if you go down the path.

cheers,

[fengshui]

I can certainly see this is going to be an expensive undertaking, but no worse than a top of the line Caterham build-up (money-wise). I am curious to see how folks with road worthy Stratos compare the drivability and handling to something similar like a Lotus Elise, but with much more suspension travel. I am also wondering what the most common set of tools and automotive skills are needed to complete a build (do I need to know how to weld?).

I keep seeing cars getting heavier and heavier and requiring massive horsepower to make them move the same as older, lighter cars. I just want a true tarmac terror with gobs of mechanical grip and "flickability" in a short wheelbase, that can also swallow up whatever the road can throw at me. The Stratos was the first purpose-built road car with only rallying in mind and represents, to me, the ultimate tarmac car.

Stewart,
I'd love to see the pics of your Maxima engine'd Hawk. It'd be cool to get a handle on the engine bay dimensions to determine what kinds of cool powerplants can take roost there. I'm wondering if a 4G63 with FWD DSM gearbox can fit. People have gotten massive (500+) horsepower from the 4G63s and that would be awesome in a light RWD car.

-Chris

[David May]

I don't think I would draw too many comparisons with a Caterham. These things weigh about a ton all up and you're talking big wheels, big brakes and big just about everything else too. And there is a whole lot more tricky bodywork to get right.
If you're very conservative and use only common kit parts you may get away without welding but must people seem to end up milling and turning at some stage. Any strange engines and you're certainly into real fabrication.
The engine bay is generous for a transverse V6 but cooling air is only just adequate for a small radiator; oil coolers and intercoolers have nowhere to go and need ducts and fans.
I doubt that any 2 kits were ever set up the same way so it's fairly academic to compare handling and roadholding. You certainly get the short wheelbase flickability but if you're after enough power to unstick the back then you've got a lot of weight swinging when it does step out!

[mogul_x]

Chris,

Not sure how expensive a Caterham is... I estimated about $35-40K for my Hawk in 2001 dollars. With the current exchange rate and kit prices, it'd probably be a little closer to $45-50K for a similar spec today.

As David said - if you're fitting a "non-standard" engine, you'll definitely need a welder. Otherwise, access to a machine shop, basic mechanics' tools, and a little experience with fiberglass and automotive electrical systems are all you really need.

I can say from my own experiences that Stratos replicas are very fast cars, even without a lot of power. 150-200 horsepower in a Stratos will accelerate impressively. Only things I've driven that felt close were a 2004 GTO, and a Corvette Z06. Can't imagine what a Stratos with more than 300 horsepower would be like. I'd imagine it would be quite a handful!

[chris.richard]

I am curious to see how folks with road worthy Stratos compare the drivability and handling to something similar like a Lotus Elise, but with much more suspension travel.



There's a thread on that comparison in here somewhere - use the search function. ;)