Beta powered Strat - Water pump query

[Jeff Davison]

Here's a question (or 3) for all of you guys who've had the Beta powering your Strats. This would include both the Alora / Corse and the Transformer / Hawk.

Have any of you ran into heating problems using the Beta issued water pump? The Beta was (as you know) a FWD car so the distance from the pump to the radiator and back isn't as long as it would be from the mid-ship position of the motor inthe Stratos.

I've been told that the Scorpion (USA) / Montecarlo pumps were of a higher capacity and while the diameter of the blades of the pump are the same as the Beta, the vanes are just a bit longer.

I have a Scorpion and can verify the differences. The vanes don't seem that much longer.

The potential issue would be flow capacity and it's adequacy or inadequacy.

The reason I ask is that I want to use a late model Fiat 124 Spider water pump (whose blades are identical in dimensions to the Beta), because of the pulley alignment and it's heater hose outlet spiggot (I want to use that for my water cooled bearing turbocharger). Also I'd like to use an underdriven pulley as well for a bit less parasitic loss of power.

A side note on my Scorpion -- it is also turbocharged with a water cooled bearing and I'm using an auxiliary cooler on the outflow so not to put any extra heat into the cooling system.

The Scorp / Monte pump would make life a bit more difficult in the particular engine build up for the Hawk, hence the question about all the collective experience running the standard issue Beta pump.

Thanks all,

Jeff Davison

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
The potential issue would be flow capacity and it's adequacy or inadequacy.

...

Also I'd like to use an underdriven pulley as well for a bit less parasitic loss of power.

Not having run a four-pot engine, I can only pass on comments I've heard in the past. No real problems reported with the overall performance of the Beta cooling system when mid-mounted in the Strat.

But, there are two things that can lead to some amount of overheating when the car is stationary for an amount of time (i.e. in heavy traffic). The first is that the Beta water pump doesn't seem to work well at tickover speed, with the recommended solution being to raise the tickover rpm slightly to avoid the potential problem of overheating in traffic. The second point, which I guess would contribute to the first, is that the water pipes through the centre spine should not be too small a diameter. This can result in less efficient water flow and hence cooling, although the theory may indicate that it could actually help at low pump speeds.

The choice of radiator core and radiator fan(s) may have a bigger effect though, so long as the water is circulating around the system in the first place. I thought this had been covered already in another topic though.

I'd be a bit concerned about your suggested use of an 'underdriven' pulley, as I would think that increases the potential for problems when the engine is at tickover rpm. I can see how it would offer some sort of gains at higher revs though.

If you're really that interested in gains of this sort, I would think that the electric water pump solution would sound most suitable for you though.

[Stratos]

Several people, who have since converted to V6, have commented to me that they had over heating problems with the Twin Cam installed. The water pump seems to be marginal on that engine, and as soon as you are stationary for any length of time, overheating starts to occur.

However, having said all that, there are several people running the Beta engine who have never ever experienced overheating problems, so maybe as John says, you have to ensure that the pipes front to back are wide enough (are these not supplied as part of the kit?), a good condition radiator and fans, and an uprated tickover speed.

I had terrible overheating problems with my car when it was fitted with a twin-cam. When I converted to V6, I kept all the same pipes, radiator, fans, etc that I used for the twin-cam, but I've never yet had a problem with the V6 overheating. AND I don't even have an oil coller fitted.

Mark Chapman was having overheating problems with his twin-cam, and has now converted to an electric water pump, such as John suggested.

[GMC]

Yes I was one of the few who had the Beta twin cam fitted and no over heating problems at all. the pipes to the rad are alloy and are 31mm and I think the rad was from a Princess (this part I am not 100% sure as I bought the car finished)
Would it be possible to have a larger water pump pulley wheel made to increase the water flow at tickover ? instead of raising the idle speed and increasing more heat ?
but I still took Dave's suggestion fitted the Alfa engine. No overheating, just broke the rotar arm in the distributor after 24 miles !

[Matt No VAT]

Beta engines are very prone to overheating - even in Betas - I have had 5 of them and they all do it - even the one I have now and spent many years and many £££'s restoring.

In the Beta the darn pump is only 15" from the rad and it still can't cope, I have always thought it as inadequate. Maybe its the combination of core size and flow capacity as some people have had it working without issue but these coolant systems may well have been modified.

Even by upping the tick-over (which I have done) still doesn't fix the issue.

On a warm day (rare as they are in the UK) when driving a Beta in traffic you have to have the windows down and the heater on to dissapate the unwanted heat.!!

I've tried manual fan override switch to have the cooling fan on when I want. Run water wetter in the cooling system, all without much success - I think I'd look at 12v electric booster pumps first to increase the flow capacity. This is what I'm considering for my Beta now.

[BETANUT]

Have to agree with Matt . I've had more than one or two Betas and even in the original installation the cooling was less than ideal - and that's with a reconditioned radiator and new pump.

Although I have been told of different solutions I agree that an electric pump seems to be the way forward - either as a replacement for or as an augmentation to the original set up. I'm not too sure how it would work - perhaps a swirl pot is the answer?

Very worthwhile looking at the thermostat and changing to the 'in-head' type by re-engineering the top rail to accomodate the thermostat and 'play around' with the plumbing. This method is described in Guy Crofts book on 'twinks'.:D