Stratos replica history

[David May]

While most of us probably know the story of the Lancia Stratos itself quite well, I don't know where to find the history of the replicas.
Has anybody ever documented the cars and people behind them, particularly the various 'production' kits: Allora, Hawk, Transformer, Corse, ...??

David M

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by David May
Has anybody ever documented the cars and people behind them, particularly the various 'production' kits: Allora, Hawk, Transformer, Corse, ...??

I suppose that various bits have been written about this, with varying levels of accuracy, generally by customers of either of these kit types.

The problem with attempting to do this 'properly' would be the very real risk of writing something libellous - even if it could be proved true in court, it would be an expensive and damaging exercise for any and all concerned! :eek:

The general order of which kits were made when, the changes in ownership between the companies concerned, the updates to kit specifications and design - these have all been described over time.

An early Kit Car article featured both the Allora and Transformer kits when they both went into production. CCC magazine, at least, have compared various replicas with the original Stratos.

Is this something that you would like to know more about, in addition to whatever you may already know? Or were you just wondering if there was an 'official' publication containing this information somewhere?

[chris.richard]

Originally posted by rutthenut



An early Kit Car article featured both the Allora and Transformer kits when they both went into production.

I think I've got that article somewhere - circa 1990? I'll have a rummage and find it in case anybody wants a copy.

[David May]

What really interests me is the background to the kits and the people involved over the various passage of makes, not what people actually built. Who came up with the first ideas, how many cars they made, why they sold out ...

The road tests make interesting reading but are technically irrelevant since everybody builds their kit for a different reason and testers (magazine journalists) are a highly unreliable bunch!

John, your comment about the libel risk is very relevant - the story of the kits is doubtless chequered with human failures but you can hardly say it in words...

David May

[colin artus]

You're in luck. I can give you the story from the horse's mouth as it were.
I was involved in the Stratos replica business from its inception in 1985 until 1992 as part of Transformer Cars. The first idea for the project was discussed between myself, Gerry Hawkridge and Gordon Cruickshank (a journo at Motorsport magazine, currently dep ed). Gordon had been inspired by Alex Moore's 24 valve gp4 car that he had tested for his mag and it turned out when we mentioned the feasiblity of a replica to Gerry that he had already been thinking about this very idea. Initially the main obstacle to
overcome was the availability or rather unavailabilty of the windscreen for the car as they were like hens teeth back then and owners of original cars had real problems sourcing replacements. However, Gordon, through his contacts found an owner, Roger Perry, who had a spare screen that was cracked. This was all we needed to have a new mould made and when we returned Rogers screen to him along with a brand new replacement, it established our bona fides to the extent that Roger agreed that we could take a full set of moulds off his car in return for repainting it.
In hinesight what seemed a good deal at the time was probably
not as we ended up completely restoring Rogers car in return for the moulds and being able to jig off the chassis. It so happened that I could have bought the last Chequered Flag car (rough!) and a pile of spares for £14k at the time. Anyway Rogers car did have the advantage of being completely straight and unmolested.
By this time ( late 85) Gerry had been joined by an ex pupil of his called Graham Morris who assisted Gerry with the fabrication side of things.
The aim was to stay as close to the original as possible, to the extent of retaining as much of the original suspension geometery as we could since we didnt want to try to 'reinvent the wheel' as it were and the opening panelwork of the car meant that the mechanical underpinnings were open to view. An obvious advantage to making identical body and suspension parts was the possibility of sales to original owners, also helping to make them view a replica more favourably.
About this time it became apparent that this was not a one horse race and that we would have competition in the form of Stuart Gross and the Allora. Now Gerry knew Stuart and it may be that he gave him the idea for the car. Its a matter of conjecture and perhaps rather irrelevant after all this time.
In April 86 the prototype in rolling chasis form was featured in news items in both Autosport and Motoring News and the car was running and finished in time for the Stoneleigh show that year. I can't remember if the Allora was there or not but it was about not long after.
The Allora used a centre tub moulding taken from the Scheldt and Pettit car which was built using a crashed/repaired tub and used replacement body panels sourced in Italy. This led to the slightly odd nose shape and the rather flat roof of the Allora . It also points up the main differences between the cars; the Transformer aimed for visual exactitude and a basis for achieving original handling characteristics while the Allora was less concerned with an exact likeness but was better developed as a driving vehicle (at least back then). This would also seem to be the conclusion that CCC reached in the joint test they ran in their Jan 87 issue (thats Roger Perrys car in blue).
In fairness to Gerry who did all the design on the Transformer, we had alot of orders after the first show and we spent more time making the kits and less tinkering with the handling of the prototype than we could have. However we did ditch the subframe/ locked steering system at the back after the first four kits.
The fibreglass was made inhouse and the chassis were made for us by Midas Metalcraft at first (first 11 cars), then Spyder Engineering took over the contract and these chassis were quite
a lot lighter (next 70 or so cars). Finally (as Transformer cars) about 30 chassis were made by Safety Devices. There were also two cars based on prototype chassis that Gerry had made.
I'll stop there as although there is a lot more I could say I will let someone else have a say on the subject

Colin Artus
ex Transformer Cars

[David May]

Colin, that's exactly what I wanted to know! Thanks very much for the trouble in posting the info (which residents in the UK probably know but is news to us overseas.)

Does anyone feel like completing the story...??

Dave M

[chris.richard]

I've got copies of the following, if anybody's interested. I suppose scanning them onto the supersite would be a copyright no-no.

Classic Replicas Oct/Nov 1989 - Comparison of Transformer HF2000 and Lancia Stratos

Component Car Classics April/May 1989 - Transformer review

Which Kit? October and December 1989 - Two articles on the Litton Corse

Kit Car December 1989 Report on the Litton Corse

Has it really taken me 13 years of dreaming before getting my own? - uncharacteristic self control!

[rutthenut]

Hello there Colin, nice to see some comments from you, especially with the level of detail you have provided.

Fancy informing the forum members on a few details about your current car, in another topic perhaps?

[Stratos]

Originally posted by colin artus
About this time it became apparent that this was not a one horse race and that we would have competition in the form of Stuart Gross and the Allora. Now Gerry knew Stuart and it may be that he gave him the idea for the car. Its a matter of conjecture and perhaps rather irrelevant after all this time.


I often wondered about the co-incidence of 2 "Startup" replica companies starting on Stratos Replicas at exactly the same time. I never realised that Gerry and Stuart Gross knew each other.

[Stratos]

Originally posted by rutthenut
Hello there Colin, nice to see some comments from you, especially with the level of detail you have provided.

Fancy informing the forum members on a few details about your current car, in another topic perhaps?

Colin,

Please do.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Stratos
I never realised that Gerry and Stuart Gross knew each other.

I don't know about the circumstances as to who might have actually started on their project first, but I understand that Stuart had made visits to the Transformer factory at the time Gerry was working on that kit, and that they were both going through the design and build process at the same time. Those visits would no doubt have been from common interests or common backgrounds.

[colin artus]

As I recall when Stuart visited Gerry he didnt actually mention what he was working on. At the time we were looking at the wheel from an early Lotus Esprit to see how it looked and this had been offerred up to the prototype rolling chassis. Strangely when the Allora first appeared it was fitted with those very wheels!

Colin Artus

[Stratos]

Originally posted by colin artus
As I recall when Stuart visited Gerry he didnt actually mention what he was working on. At the time we were looking at the wheel from an early Lotus Esprit to see how it looked and this had been offerred up to the prototype rolling chassis. Strangely when the Allora first appeared it was fitted with those very wheels!

Colin Artus

Colin,

I have an Allora, and I have some early Allora documention, and it mentions that Lotus Esprit wheels can be used.

[David May]

With the Kit Car activities at their peak in the mid 1980's, I assume that Transformer Cars, Gerry Hawkridge and Allora were all building assorted other vehicles a the time. Or were the Stratos so different that a company could specialise solely in the one model?

Dave May

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by David May
With the Kit Car activities at their peak in the mid 1980's, I assume that Transformer Cars, Gerry Hawkridge and Allora were all building assorted other vehicles a the time

I don't know the timing or order of things, but Gerry has also created copies of the 250 GTO and Daytona Ferrari's at some stage, as well as his current range of 289 and 427 Cobras and there was also the ill-fated 'Stewart & Arden' (that was a Minisprint, but BMW Rover lawyers told him not to put it into product - but that's another story).

[Chris Jarvis]

If the moulds for the Stradale Transformer kits were taken from Roger Perry's original Stratos, where were the early group 4 rear end moulds taken from?

[colin artus]

Grenville Griffths Gp4 car was used for those moulds. He was a friend of Gerry Hawkridge.
There was a test of this car in CCC many years ago that is included in the Brooklands Books Stratos compilation.

Colin

[Chris Jarvis]

Thanks Colin

That's interesting.

What did that car look like, the colour etc.?

I remember a great shot of a Stratos parked up on the Great Orme in CCC. It was a red group 4 one with yellow coffin spoke wheels taken from the side and above if I remember right. Do you know that one?

[colin artus]

Yes I know the one you mean. I think it belonged to Christian Meneef who at one time had both a stradale and a gp4. They both appear in the cover shot for the Brooklands compilation of tests.
Grenville Griffiths car was white for a long time but could well be another colour by now.

Colin

[omicron]

Roger Perry's car is now in Japan. Roger Perry ran Classico. He applied for a job with us, but his illness prevented him working on cars, so we suggested he got a computer and started a small spares business.

When he died we bought his parts from his widow, Kate.

Hence the name Classico on our letterheading and when we answer the phone.

The Grenville Griffiths car I believe has been sold. Something tells me it went to Norway, but I could be getting confused.


Andrew

[David May]

The ex- Rowan Atkinson Gp 4 car went to Starvanger, Norway. Thats not the same car is it?

Dave May

[omicron]

No, different car, the Rowan Atkinson car did go to Norway and soon had some sort of unpleasant engine problems.

[Jeff Davison]

Found this, but don't recall where.
Looks like a 3rd manufacturer in the past.
Never heard of them in any relationship to the "Big Two".

Anyone have any knowledge of info????

Jeff Davison

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by Jeff Davison
Anyone have any knowledge of info?

I hadn't heard of this kit before, nor seen the report.

But I do know of Pilgrim (they make/made the Sumo - a Cobra replica that used Cortina parts, etc). This company is/was owned by Den Tanner (aka 'Bent Spanner'), who is/was also the owner of Kit Car magazine. I think a lot of the company ownership stuff has changed for Pilgrim, the Sumo and Kit Car recently, so that's probably no longer accurate.

As for the 'MX2', I wouldn't be at all surprised to find this was a wind-up printed in the magazine. Do you have the issue date in which the article was printed? I'd guess it might have been April!

If not, apologies to Pilgrim for not being aware of their top model!!! :eek:

[Chris Jarvis]

This Pilgrim car,

Would it be an Allora sold under a different name?

Are the Esprit wheels a clue to that?

[colin artus]

As I recall, and it was a long time ago mind you, this was basically a bit of a punt by Pilgrimto test the water i.e. they never actually made a car.
I believe that Pilgrim had been doing the grp work for the Allora and when Litton ceased trading they took over the project with a view to production in the same vein as their Cobra - cheap and cheerfull. However as everybody here knows, the Stratos is just not that sort of car. I dont think there was a market for that sort of approach and they couldn't have made the kit cheaply enough to achieve any return.

Colin

[Stratos]

I remember being by someone (can't remember who now) that there were a set of moulds in Southern England, and that a Ford-based chassis had been developed, but that it had never reached production. Looks like this was probably it.

[chris.richard]

I've emailed Pilgrim a copy of the article and asked what the story is. I'll post any reply here.

[chris.richard]

I spoke to Pilgrim. The MX2 was never produced, not even a prototype. They produced a set of moulds for someone else, who then did a runner on them. They think they've still got the moulds. I suppose the car in the article picture was the one they took the moulds from.

[omicron]

Tony Holmes, the director of Pilgrim has said the moulds were destroyed a long time ago...

[Stratos]

I was talking to Barry Purrett a few weeks ago.

He did all the production of the Allora Chassis and Bodyshells on behalf of Stuart Gross of Handmade Cars, and I asked him about these other moulds.

Apparently, they were done for Stuart Gross of Handmade Cars when Handmade Cars went belly up, because Barry was owed money and wouldn't release the moulds and bodyshells, etc back to Stuart Gross until the debts were paid.

Apparently it never went beyond the stage of making the moulds.