Query About Lamp Pods

[guy mayers]

Hi all, I wonder if anyone can give me a definitive answer regarding a specific car?
It's the 1978 San Remo No 4 car of Alen/Kivimakki in Pirelli livery and the question is, did it ever run during the rally with the two extra lamp pods at the front of the car attached?
Of all the models of this particular car I have there is only one that has them fitted and I haven't been able to find a picture showing the car running with them fitted. The only one I can find so far is in a 1993 magazine, Historic Race & Rally which shows the front of the car without the pods fitted but with the mounting holes clearly visible.
Thanks
Guy

[guy mayers]

After posting on the Le Mans thread re the piccies found on the net I went back to the reference books to find out when car 3 ran at San Remo and who drove........
Page 153 of Nigel Trows book shows Alen cleaning his windscreen, rally plaque clearly shows car 4 on the San Remo WITH the lamp pods fitted! Looks like the car ran in both guises during the rally!
Thanks to everyone who took the time to look on my behalf, it's really appreciated.
Happy Guy.

[chris.richard]

How is "Project Pirelli" coming on Guy?

[guy mayers]

It's progressing nicely! The only obstacles remaing are the pending MOT for the Alfa 145! That could use up the paint fund if it doesn't pass cheaply.

Ok Chris, the car has been SORNd since the tax ran out post Zolder. I didn't really want to use it until the brake fluid was changed anyway after teh incident! The crack in the screen that worsened at Abingdon 2004 meant that it had to come out as it couldn't be hidden by the wiper anymore.... So I spent a couple of very careful hours removint the ally trim without bending it by using a metal filler spreader ground razor sharp. The same tool was used to remove the bond around the screen pillars but in the end the screen just cracked too much and violence was resorted to. It cam out in 3 big pieces and about a billion little ones. With no damage to the paintwork.
The old dash came out easily enough and the new Gp4 one went in easily enough (magazine article pending) once the tricks were gleaned from Gerry. The steering column is back in the correct place and positions worked out for the gauges, fuseboxes, switches etc etc. It won't be original but then the chances of getting the correct (mechanical) gauges are remote so I'll be sticking with the Veglia ones. All the decals have been sourced and all that remains is to dismantle the car, fill the holes for the Stradale indicators, mount the Gp4 ones and drag it to the paintshop....... oh- and rebuild it, rewire it, ramove the wheels/tyres and paint the new wheels...
Hopefully it will be ready for the AGM in June at Abingdon (assuming that's were it is going to be!)
Guy

[chris.richard]

BIG project! Did you put the new screen in yourself, or is that going to be a late addition?

[guy mayers]

That's the penultimate thing that will go back in after the repaint Chris. The last thing will be the trim!
The new dash is much easier to work on than the Stradale one. Just being able to remove the top to get at the back of the gauges and switches is so much easier than removing steering wheels, stalks and the ally panel etc. But it's even easier with the screen out! I still have to work out exactly how to attach the handbrake to the steering column so that it will work a mechanical handbrake - it'll probably involve a spare clutch cable - but if I don't the MOT man won't pass it! The originals handbrake involved a length of steel cable from the handbrake to the balance bar... Not pretty and constantly rubbing on exposed wiring can't be ideal!
Guy

[chris.richard]

I still have to work out exactly how to attach the handbrake to the steering column so that it will work a mechanical handbrake

Now you've got me confused! What is the Group 4 set up?

[guy mayers]

Hi Chris - the Gp 4 had the handbrake lever pivot welded under the steering column, pointing towards the middle of the car, parallel with the face of the dash at rest, on when pulled out towards the driver actuating the balance bar on the master cylinder by using a steel cable...
See page 58 of the Nigel Trow book.
Guy

[chris.richard]

Hi Chris - the Gp 4 had the handbrake lever pivot welded under the steering column, pointing towards the middle of the car, parallel with the face of the dash at rest, on when pulled out towards the driver actuating the balance bar on the master cylinder by using a steel cable...
See page 58 of the Nigel Trow book.
Guy
You know, this is probably much easier to do than a hydraulic cylinder and vertical lever in the centre tunnel...Light bulb moment! :)

[tryphon]

Note that the Gr.4 handbrake is acting on all 4 wheels.

[mudhut]

Is this legal on a UK road car? I mean the hydraulic actuation, not the acting on four wheels.

[tryphon]

Hydraulic handbrake is not road-legal in most countries. Late Gr.4 car used 2 rear calipers. The Stradale 2 piston one was modified and added to the setup to provide mechanical handbrake.

On the thread's title subject of lamp pods you should know that the Megalux lenses fitted to original Gr.4 cars was a specific series developed for the Stratos. Only a few exist around the globe and of course none is offered for sale.

[mogul_x]

I'm curious - did the hydraulic 4 wheel handbrake give a different proportion of braking effort to the front and rear axles than the pedal operated hydraulic brakes? I'd assume that, since the handbrake cable is attached to the balance bar, it would give a more rearward bias? Couldn't see the point of it otherwise. :confused:

[tryphon]

Acting on the handbrake has the same effect as acting on the brake pedal. The Stratos' short wheelbase would initiate the oversteering once the car was positioned on the bend.

[chris.richard]

If the cable was attached to the "rear" end of the balance bar, it'll act mainly on the rears. The Tilton balance bar can go at least to 65% / 35% split from the pedal, so a cable pulling on one end will act mainly on the rear.
I need to get more details from Guy when he's back. I hear he's been wowing Giorgio Pianta with his cat in Turin.

[Bob]

I understand he's wowing Georgio Pianta with his cat


Did you mean he's meowing Georgio Pianta with his cat!!! :D ;)

[chris.richard]

Did you mean he's meowing Georgio Pianta with his cat!!! :D ;)

Oops! :D :D

[catswhiskers]

Is this legal on a UK road car? I mean the hydraulic actuation, not the acting on four wheels.

I was informed by my local SVA inspector that hydraulic handbrakes, as the only form of parking brake, are not legal.
If one is fitted, it must be supplemented by a cable operated unit too.

Mick

[guy mayers]

I need to get more details from Guy when he's back. I hear he's been wowing Giorgio Pianta with his cat in Turin.

Back ok! Had a very long conversation with Giorgio Pianto at the Fiat test track at La Mandria. However Customs wouldn't let me take the cat.. :D :D :D

My handbrake is very much a hybrid! There are two mechanical callipers on the rear wheel (of dubious ability) actuated by using a clutch cable attached to the original horseshoe. In addition there is a steel cable from the lever to the balance bar itself, not the pivot point, but operating mainly on the front circuit. It works just fine!

Guy

PS how did you hear I'd met Giorgio?

[chris.richard]

So your cable-to-the-balance bar handle is used as your parking brake, rather than as a hairpin-assisting handbrake? Do you think it would work as one if I attach the cable to the "rear" end of the balance bar? There just isn't the room really for a vertical handbrake and hydraulics, and I can't find the elbowroom for using the proper one. Can you post some pics of your setup Guy?

P.S. Leo Capaldi

[guy mayers]

Hi Chris - I'm hoping to get the car out for next weekends Lancia do at Gaydon and I'll take some piccies then and see if I can post them here. No promises as I struggle to work these computer toys!
As you've guessed I use it as a parking brake so it's not important to me that it works on one circuit only, merely that it holds the car in one place on a slope! I'd be careul about attaching it to one end to assist the rear end, you might want to try finding out how far the bar has to be moved on the rear circuit to be effective and how that affects the front circuit. I guess you'd have to attach the cable to the outside of the balance bar rather than between the central pivot and the cylinder pushrod. If you use a steel cable be aware that it will stretch and should be plastic coated to avoid chafing any wiring under the dash!
Guy

[Bob]

Guy, further to your original request for info on the Pirelli cars running the extra lamp pods - you've probably enough info now, but the last page in the current Autosport has a picture of the mentioned San Remo Stratos with the lamps on (yellow lenses).

[guy mayers]

Thanks for the tip Bob - looks like I'm on the lookout for the magazine and some yellow lenses.... And I already sold some! Wonder if they went to Austin?