Kit progress

[catswhiskers]

Well its 4 weeks since the Corse kit was delivered and as you can imagine, I've had plenty to keep me occupied.
Whilst the Corse is normally based on Ford Scorpio running gear, I'm afraid I wanted to be different and use Alfa gear where possible. Several weeks of measuring and planning before the project commenced are now paying dividends and the chassis is now built using Alfa brake discs and Calipers all round, Alfa hubs and driveshafts at rear and purpose made 'Alfa' compatible front stub axles. This not only makes better use of the 164 donor car, but will allow me to run coffin spoke wheels.
As of last weekend, the engine is now in and mostly connected and the centre tub is scheduled for fitting next weekend with the help of John and Lionel from Napiersport.
Thats when the tedious work will begin I suppose, still plenty to do but June is still a long way off isnt it (isnt it)
Cheers.
Mick

[chris.richard]

You're fairly romping on! Is this a full time activity?

[catswhiskers]

Hi Chris,
No I'm afraid I have a real job that gets in the way occasionally. However, being self employed, I do have the benefit of only working 4 days a week, so that helps.
I think one of the main advantages, as has been mentioned in a recent post, is having space to work. A couple of years ago, I built a 3 car garage and workshop with this project in mind. I now have a 400sq.ft. central heated and insulated workshop together with 3 further garage spaces. Its a cosy place to go for a few hours when there's nothing on television ( most of the time just lately )
I hope to be at Abingdon in June but that will depend on the a few things, not least the bodywork and that eye catching 'Olio Fiat' paint job.
I'll keep pushing on and post updates as I go.
Cheers,
Mick

[Chris J]

Mick

Interesting photos. You're not hanging about are you?

What are the rear uprights and brake calipers from?

[Chris J]

Sorry, that's ALFA rear calipers (I've read it now), but are the rear uprights a special casting or adapted from something else?

[catswhiskers]

Hi Cris,
The cast uprights are supplied with the Kit from Napiersport. I did have to do a few small mods to fit the Alfa hubs but that was mainly machining to suit Alfa bearings.
As you can also see, the whole suspension is rose jointed as standard.
I can post more pictures if anyone is interested.

Cheers,
Mick

[John]

Mick,
you are doing us proud! That engine looks good in there. I see the adjustable torque arm now! Looking forward to seeing you this weekend, and I'm sure everybody will be keen to see more progress photos after that!

[Chris J]

Thanks for the photo of the rear upright, Mick.

Fixing a hand brake caliper AND a main brake caliper isn't going to be a problem is it?

The Corse kit does seem to have evolved a lot over the years.

[catswhiskers]

To be honest Chris,
I've toyed with the idea of fitting twin calipers at the rear, but seeing as the Alfa rear calipers have the handbrake fittings integral I think I'll wait and see how the brakes work out. I have the tilton pedal box with balance bar fitted so I have some adjustment. If it turns out that the rears are not up to the job, I can easily fit a second pair of calipers.
My gut feeling is that it will work out OK but then I've always been the eternal optimist.

Mick.

[Chris J]

Of course, you've got Alfa rear calipers.

I should think they'll give you plenty of braking power for road use, it all depends what you end up doing with the car.

Competition brakes hardly ever get a good workout on the road, and maybe not even on a short hillclimb/sprint.

[catswhiskers]

By the way, If anyone knows the colour code / reference for the Olio Fiat blue, that would be very much appreciated. I have the Yellow already.
Cheers,
Mick

[Bernard]

Hi Mick
Looks like good progrees is being made........... I will be up at the weekend and we can go out for a blast together..... or is that being too optimistic ?
Great progress though ! and looking forward to the Olio fiat colours.

Cheers

Phil (Bernard) or should that be Bernard (Phil) ???????????

[catswhiskers]

To be safe Bernard, I'd make it Sunday afternoon . That will give me chance to finish it after we fit the tub on Saturday. :D
Seriously, You're more than welcome to pop round anytime and take a look.
Regards,
Mick

[Swamprat33]

Hi Mick. Sounds like you are going to have the fastest built Stratos of all time.
Really like your idea to use Alfa brakes and driveshafts.
I really hope you do manage to bring it to Abingdon.

Good luck
Tim

[catswhiskers]

Nice to hear from you again Tim,
we really must get together one of these days to compare notes on the Corse.
Regarding using the Alfa parts, it really isn't a major ammount of work to make them fit. It does also make a lot better use of the donor car.
I am documenting all the mods I'm carrying out in order to make the kit 'Alfa friendly' as it were, and when I am happy everything is OK, I'll be passing all the drawings and information on to Napiersport so they can offer these 'options' on future kits.
Brake pictures enclosed. With regard to the driveshafts, the nearside one was exactly the right length and the offside one just needs a spacer due to the fact that the engine is slightly offset in the chassis.

Regards,

Mick

[Chris J]

Mick

If I wanted to order some calipers and discs like the ones in your photos, which model and year of 164 are they from? and...

...Do you (or does anyone else) know the internal diameter of the discs (the part that mounts to the hub)?

[catswhiskers]

Chris,
the Alfa 164 was a 1989 12v model. With regard to the brake disc sizes, I do have them on a drawing at home so I will post that info this evening. Obviously if there's any other sizes you need, let me know before then.
By the way, I purchased the new discs from a local motor factors and I think they only cost about £12 each. I'll confirm that too.
If it's of any interest, I also have a spare pair of brand new front vented discs which, due to a change in plans, are surplus to my requirements. £20 each if anyone is interested. (pick up or + carraige of course)
Best regards,
Mick.

[Chris J]

Thanks Mick

This is all very useful info. The dimensions are a key thing though. I hope they'll do the job. Especially at £12 each!

Are your spare discs on an Alfa 5 stud fitting?, and what diameter and thickness are they?

[catswhiskers]

Chris,
Yes they are 5 stud fitting. Sizes, I'll have to post later on today with other info.
And guess what,
My Coffin Spokes have just arrived. Wow, what a piece of kit.

cheers,
Mick

[Chris J]

Mick

Coffin Spokes!

I can see it's all coming together there. 'Makes a Ferrari seem dull. If that's possible?

You might find yourself taking the wheels out of the box and staring at them in disbelief.

You already have.

[catswhiskers]

Chris,

Already been there. They do have to be seen to be believed dont they.

All I need now is to get the tyres by my wife. (I see a bunch of flowers coming on)

Mick

[Swamprat33]

Hi again Mick.
i am quite envious, that you will be running coffin spokes on your Corsa.
I would love to, but that would mean ditching my lovely (huge) Brembo's for some Alfa brakes.
I think the cost of new wheels and tyres, new brakes and hub conversions would be way to much to change now.

I will continue to dream.

I am sure I will be able to venture north again later in the year, so we can meet up Mick.

You will probably completed it within the next 8 weeks, so id best get my skates on.

Cheers
Tim

[catswhiskers]

Tim,
8 weeks might be optimistic but June is still on the agenda. If you're up near Nottingham anytime, let me know and you can pop in for a coffee. (or a beer)

Now, about these flowers...........

Mick.

[catswhiskers]

Information for you Chris.

Rear Brake disc;
Internal diameter is 126mm. and is 44mm deep from face. Overall diameter is 251mm and disc thickness is 10mm

Front brake disc;

Overall diameter is 284mm and thickness (over vents) is 22mm. Obviously 5 stud pattern.

Hope this is useful.

Regards,
Mick.

[strat6v]

Yeah yeah, ok, i'll look after it cos it might get lonely, heard it before.

Mick, seems like everybody wants to come and have a look so why not host a small get together?. I'm sure we could help ya finsh off the left over christmas cake as well while we have a look at the corse. What do you think?

John

[catswhiskers]

Well John,

Why not. I'm all for picking other brains and listening to suggestions from like minded folk.
I dont think you're far away are you? I know Bernard and Sando are almost within shouting distance. Suggest a time & date, lets see what we can organise. Dont know about the Christmas cake, but there's still plenty of wine and beer left.
Look forward to it.
Could be a local media scoop. All these Strats converging in one place.

Over to you.

Mick.

[Chris J]

Mick

Thanks for the disc dimensions. That info. will be very useful. "Knowledge is power" so somebody once said?

I would'nt mind a look at your car, too?

[strat fan]

sorry to be a pain. i'm new to the site but with reference to your front suspension I am sure your steering arms are on the wrong side and hence the wrong way up which will give you horrendous bump steer. The rod end should be higher on the upright to bring the tie rod to an angle somewhere between the track control arm and the top wishbone, i.e if the track control arm is at 0degrees and the top wishbone is say at an angle of 15degrees up then the steering arm should be at approx 10degrees up given the relationship of the rack to the respective wishbones

[strat fan]

with reference the kit shown looks pretty much identical to how it was in 1996/7 when CAE were in control of the project, the main difference will be the body molds which i believe have been re done since napier took over

[David May]

Funnily enough, I too thought the steering arms looked odd and rushed out to the garage to see how I had fitted mine! Exactly the same! I know my bump steer is OK, having spent may hours on the ramps at my local tyre fitters moving the rack up and down to elimate bump steer (the Corse I has adjustabke rack mountings.)

[catswhiskers]

Hi Craig,

Thanks for your input. I have to confess I dont know whether you are right on the steering or not, but will check it out anyhow. I've have Lionel and John from Napier here all day helping me set the centre tub and checking fits on the other panels in readiness for fitting. They didnt pick up on this so I'm not sure.
David, are you saying your streeing is set up same as mine and works OK ?
If that is the case I will wait to road test.
With regard to the moulds, yes, a full set of new moulds has recently been made and the early indications are very favourable. One main advantage is that the rear body section (in group 4 format) is now manufactured with the arches integral. I'll post a picture of the body shortly to show you what I mean.
Good to hear from you all.

Cheers,
Mick

[strat6v]

Hi mick,

How would a meet at yours sound for a week next saturday(29th) in the early afternoon, say 1 ish?. Sando and bernard have expressed an interest and so has chris J.If the date was posted on the forum then there may be a few more who would like to come along.

I'll gladly help out with organising things.I think it would be a good idea to be carefull posting your address up, maybe just send it by pm or email to those interested in coming. Let me know your thoughts.

Home tel: 01246 550590
Batphone: 07976 254499

John.

[David May]

Hi Mick,

Yes, I compared your photos with my setup and they look identical as far as I can see. (As I'm sure you too have found, there are several bits in the suspension and brakes department which can be mounted in different ways.) I had no trouble adjusting out the bump steer, but that's not to say that it's the most stable car in the world at high speed! My fault for using extreme camber angles and high-ratio steering, but then you don't win many pots for going in a straight line!

[catswhiskers]

Hi John,

Saturday 29th Sounds fine to me. Lets make it between 12 mid day and 5pm. It will be nice to put faces to names at last.
I agree with your comments about posting addresses so when we have a list of interested folk, I'll send PM's or contact by phone etc.
Depending on weather, it would be nice to see a selection of Strats on the drive too.
All tips and suggetions will be gratefully received.
I look forward to seeing you all soon.

Best regards,

Mick

[strat6v]

Mick,

This would be the first time that i have helped organise a meet!.
I'll post details up around lunchtime today, just got to finish my plasterboarding.

John.

[strat fan]

it would possible to achieve neutral bump steer with the steering arm that way round but i would imagine that alot of castor would need to be used to achieve it. typically 5degrees is in the zone on those uprights. I would recommend checking bump steer before the car sees the road though. perhaps susit could post a photo of his steering arm as i know that car to built to factory spec

[strat fan]

many apologies i mean swamprat with the red corse I

[David May]

Hi Craig,
I'm still confused as to how you think the Corse I steering arm should sit. They are handed, so won't just go left/right and if you tried, the arm would face inwards and move the ball-joint way inwards. Even if you did manage to invert the position and get the joint hanging downwards, it would be only fractionally above the original position. The (only) photo in the CAE build manual (taken from above) seems to agree with Micks.

[strat fan]

David I hope this explains what i was trying to say
Are visitors still welcome on saturday Mick?
best regards Craig

[catswhiskers]

Craig,
Yes you're more than welcome to come over on the 29th. I'll let you know address details and contact number by PM next week.
The drawing does make sense I must admit but I'm seeing John again at the weekend so I'll run it by him for comments.
Thanks and see you soon.

Mick

[John]

Mick and Craig,
I have just caught up with the dialog here and looking at the pictures Mick you do have the steering arms on the wrong sides! Being intent on the bodywork last weekend I did not see it at the time. They will swop over from one side to the other no problem. Put it wherever you feel it should be on the To Do list Mick and we will sort it over the weekend!
Craig,
Did we meet at Donnington last september? You used to work with Hugh did you not?

[catswhiskers]

John,
Thanks for your input. Craig, I owe you one. I will get them changed round today.
See you next Saturday. I've sent you a PM with details.

Cheers,
Mick