Hi & Difficulty of build question

[kartaphilos]

Hi all,

I've been a member of the club for a number of months now and have been lurking on the site for a while so I thought is was time to ask a question that I've been wondering about for a while.

Being a big fan of '70's and '80's rally cars and '70's Italian cars in general the Stratos is definitely the car that I would love to have, especially seeing one in operation at a classic rally I was marshalling at in the early '90's. Building one seems to be an fun(?) and cost effective method of owning a Stratos, but is it a build that can be done by a first time builder or should I cut my teeth on something simpler, maybe a lotus 7 replica? Experience/skill wise I'm ok with mechanicals having done a fair bit of work on motorbikes and my first ever car being a fairly poor condition Fiat 124CC so I've had practice with 4 wheels as well. Bodywork and fabrication I have less experience with.

So what's the verdict, could I jump straight in with a Stratos or would it be wiser and less risky to try something else for starters?

Timescales are certainly not in the near future as I don't have the facilities or finances to start this within the next 12 months (at least), so its more of a planning exercise at the moment!

I'm hoping to head out to a couple of kit car shows this year and any club meets that are on to get to meet some of the cars and their owners. Any suggestions for a good show to visit and learn more (preferably near the South-East).

Cheers,
Matt

[guy mayers]

Hi Matt and welcome to the site! You'll get lots of opinions on how "easy" these cars are to build but neither kit is as easy as a lotus 7 type car. Mechanically they are pretty straightforward to put together. The finish of the bodywork is very important to the overall look of the completed car but it is all fiberglass which is easy to work and the occaisional mistake can be rectified with a bit of care.
Previous experience with kit car building isn't a pre-requisite for having a go at a Stratos but some mechanical aptitude certainly is. Facilities are very important, a good garage with plenty of space to work around the car will make the build less complicated. Enthusiasm and dedication are a must as the build averages about 3 years....
If you are serious about building a car then can I suggest you get along to the biggest kit car show in the UK at Stoneleigh in Warwickshire, just South of Coventry, it's held over the Sunday/Monday of the first Bank Holiday weekend in May and anyone who is manufacturing kits will be there. You'll also be able to meet owners/builders and talk to them about their experiences. It will also give you the chance to select a manufacturer, either Hawk or Napier Motorsport and to get an idea of the donor parts needed.
Whichever manufacturer you decide upon I would recommend that you use and Alfa 164 in either 12 or 24 valve form and start looking for a donor as soon as possible so you can use it before stripping it so you know the state of the mechanicals. Once you have made your mind up which manufacturer to go with you can also start looking for all the donor parts needed from other vehicles. It's amazing how much time you can spend refurbishing and preparing those bits and that will all be time saved when you take the plunge and get the kit.
Guy

[strat6v]

Hi there.

As far as kit building goes, i haven't had any previous experience but have always been handy with the spanners.My own thoughts echo those of Guy. A well equiped, well lit workshop with plenty of room is a must. I have developed basic sheet metal working and laminating skills which really helps once the build starts. the main thing you need is enthusiasm!. Planning in advance is a real good idea. Finding the right donor car can take a bit of time plus sourcing all the little bits and the strat has plenty! I have had many an enjoyable afternoon finding bits and bobs from old fiats and lancias in scrapyards around the north. If this isn't your thing then probably most of us can help out with things we have duplicated. Visit the manufacturers and also take a trip out to any shows so you can talk to other owner/builders or leave a message here, to see if anyone is in your area. This may be a good idea at this stage.

Regards.

John.

[chris.richard]

Wasn't it Corse Chris who built his "7" in 8 weeks, but so far has taken 6 years on his Stratos?

[guy mayers]

Hmm.... And Bob Sharp built his in under 3 years, sold it to Nico, bought a Caterham instead, built that in under 2 weeks only to find that it failed the SVA test as some of the (factory supplied) components weren't compliant!

[CorseChris]

Wasn't it Corse Chris who built his "7" in 8 weeks, but so far has taken 6 years on his Stratos?

Do you mind? 5 weeks, please :)

And sad to confess, my Corse build will hit 6 years on 1st May this year.....

Probably the biggest difference between these 2 builds for me has been finance. When building the Westy, money was available as and when it was needed - no holdups. Building the Corse, I couldn't afford to buy the pile of junk I laughingly call the 'kit' let alone do anything to it. (Must explain before anyone who hasn't heard this before gets the wrong end of the stick, I bought a huge pile of stuff including most of a 'previously enjoyed' Corse chassis, some very battered body parts, masses of Beta bits and some gems like instruments, handles, catches etc that were needed for the car).

Skills-wise, there isn't too much different between building the two IMHO, more a question of amount of work. Body on a Westy is a pretty trivial exercise. Body on a Start needs a lot of care and time to get it looking OK in terms of panel fit. As mentioned, you'll need to learn some basic laminating skills. Mechanically there is nothing special about the Strat kits at all.

So I think I'm saying the same as Guy & John really. I especially agree about having space to work. As it happens, I don't have much room and this has also contributed to the long build time. My garage is just about big enough to put the car in - no way you can work on it in there so I'm forced to work outside. This of course puts me at the mercy of the weather to a fair extent. I did buy an 8 x 16 EZ Up awning which has been a great help, but this time of year it's a non-starter as the flippin' thing tends to blow away.

Don't think I can add anything to the good advice you've already had - pick your car, then start collecting those parts! Having time to pick & choose will likely save you a few quid as well. V6 is a good call (number of options available), although a decent turbo TC would still be fun! Ferrari V8 is even nicer of course...... My car has a standard spec Monte Carlo TC at the moment, but the Alfa V6 is sat at the back of the garage awaiting the time I can afford to fettle & fit it. I did run a donor 164 for a year or so and the engine was fine, but personally I wouldn't consider intalling it in the Strat without at least replacing all the bearing shells, the oil pump and the valve guides.

Best of luck!

[kartaphilos]

Thanks Guy, Chris, & John for the responses, its given me a bit to think about. I never thought about getting all the little bits needed for the kit, before getting the kit (seems obvious really!) so I guess deciding on a kit is one of the first things to do.

Space is something that I am considering at the moment. Having spent most of my life in a sunnier climate I'm a bit of a woose when it comes to doing things outside in colder weather so I'm looking for a garage that is a reasonable size. I guess a double sized garage is then a requirement, with enough room to keep body parts, engine, bits and be able to move around the car?

I'd like to get to stoneleigh but I may be busy at that time, what is the show at Detling in Kent like?

So for another 'piece of string' question, what sort of build budget would be expected for your average build? (alfa v6 probably)

Cheers,
Matt

[strat6v]

I gave up counting the cost a long time ago!. The last count would have been about 20 but i can't resist those bargains. Only problem now is i have strat number two to build, so you see that duplicating parts is a good idea.

Hopefully number one will be done soon. The missus is getting sick of all the junk thats piling up around the house.

[chris.richard]

Budget £20 - 25k.
The more space the better - it's amazing how much space the bits take up. I bow to those who manage in a single garage, but those who do it outside in the UK must be made of stout stuff!

[CorseChris]

20k sounds like a fair place to start....depending on luck sourcing parts & final spec.

My build is about £23k now. Nothing left to spend for now apart from SVA & Insurance fees. Fitting the V6 will put another £1500 or so on the cost.

A decent double garage would be a huge help, a large single would be OK I guess. The worst things about having to work outside are worrying about rain and all the time wasted in setting up and clearing away every day.

[Chris J]

Or, just buy a completed car for £15,000.

Build time - zero.

[CorseChris]

...true...but it's not likely to be exactly the car you want unless you get extremely lucky, and there will always be questions about what's under the skin IMHO.

Certainly an option though. Plus point would be that if it isn't the ideal car, at least you can drive it while you contemplate any modifications.

Takes your choice and pays your money I guess. Has to be said that more than once during the build I wish I'd waited and bought a complete car! But then if I had, I'd never be happy with it, so I'd then spend years fiddling with it...but to be fair, that's just me being my usual perverse self!

[catswhiskers]

Hi Matt,

glad to see you're interested in joining the 'build club'. I've been planning mine for about 2 years before I took the plunge. Regarding build budgets, to date, I've parted with £17K. Thats is for a 164 donor from which I used the engine,calipers, and driveshafts.
Everything else is based on new parts from Napier (plus new discs, bearings etc.) and includes Coffin Spoke wheels too.
The only main items I have to source are Seats, Harnesses, Tyres, internal trim and, above all, the paint job.
I expect to be at around £22K when finished. So the earlier estimates seem fairly realistic.
As for space and facilities, see my other post 'Kit Progress' and you will see that having space not only makes life easier, but saves enormously on time because you dont have to set up and pack away after every session.
Personally, I believe this is one of the aspects that keeps me motivated knowing I can just pop into the garage for an hour and get an hours work done.
Best of luck.
Mick.

[Chris J]

I must have been lucky then.

I think I took it for granted too much. I wouldn't have been so quick to sell it if there had been so much of my time wrapped up in the car.