bodywork prep

[strat6v]

I need advice regarding preperation of my strat bodywork. The panels have been mounted and gapped pretty good, Question is, do i try and match the face planes so to speak and if i do, do i use body filler, or grp, or a combination of both.
The tail spoiler has gaps between it and the rear section, not by the boot lid but in the semi circular areas next to the lamp surrounds. Am i being picky or would anybody else use grp to extend it that last little bit till it meets the rear section?

Any bodywork advice would be really appreciated.

John.

[stableblock]

Hi
I'm still working on mine.

I've used more thicknesses of mat and resin for the larger areas (passenger door) where the plane surfaces dont match and quite a lot of choppies elsewhere including the curved bits around the rear spoiler. Fianl finsih for both these is a thin layer of filler - most of which is then rubbed away.

If your'e doing this now (ie in the cold) then be sure that the resin goes off properly - use enough catalyst and apply some warmth (but be careful as the materials and vapour are highly flamable) between layers of things might start moving / sinking later and this would spoil your paint finish

This all takes ages but I think the result will be worth it???

Peter

[strat6v]

Could any more of you fellas let me know of your panel nightmares, it may save me a load of hassle!

[stewart]

Doors....

Perfect at trial fit and test drives before and after undercoat stage. Not quite so good alignment after painting but got it almost perfect. 6000km and 12 months later not at all perfect. Many weekends (several hours at a time) spent to get them right again...how they hit in the new places is beyond me.

Got them pretty good but not perfect again with lock mounting holes in doors filled and redrilled. Bolts all tightened, trims back on locks etc operating doors good but not great...several days against those rotten door rubbers and top of drivers door out again...Give Up!

Have decided to pretend it is a real Stratos built on a friday and will blame Luigi a long lunch and vino...

It's all fun!

[Sando]

Just a quick one about heat and GRP.
Don't clip a lead lamp to your cage when you're working for hours inside the car doing the wiring in a dark Garage......unless you want that dimpled roof efffect!

Cheers
Ho Ho Ho.... My Ass.
Rob :)

[chris.richard]

Don't clip a lead lamp to your cage when you're working for hours inside the car doing the wiring in a dark Garage......unless you want that dimpled roof efffect!

Voice of experience, eh?
Don't clip it to your rear view mirror with the bulb against the windscreen either.......... :rolleyes: :mad:

[David May]

Rule #1: no naked bulbs in the workshop. (Only fluorescents allowed!)

[John]

A question definitely related to this topic is.... Does anyone have any experience or information relating to postcuring of GRP panels using heat? I have read that it can be beneficial to long term dimensional stability of the panels and also can diminish the effects of paint systems on the panels while painting. Question is how much heat and for how long?

[Arthur]

Self-forming GRP?
Spit.

The rear spoiler. I set mine in first time, held it with nuts/bolts, and foam-filled the bugger to close the (0.75 inch) gaps.
First time I leaned on it, craaaack.
Spit.
Second time, I reckoned sod the gaps, lets just get the thing solid (has to be - you stop on the road/stage, first thing that will get pushed-on is........). So I broke the thing clear, used the aborted nuts/bolts through the flange returns to set it in place, carved about 4 holes in the boot through to the hollow of the spoiler, and hand-laminated boxes internally to hold it together, 1 in each side section, 2 across the width of the back.
It's solid.
I still had to foam it to fill the gaps, then cut the foam back and "filler" the resulting fillets to get a painting surface.

The boot lid, however, is held by a single centre hinge, and folds neatly up at the sides. This is not how it used to be. It used to fold DOWN at the sides,and the single hinge pulled it tight and secure. Until it came back from the paint shop, when it looked like a Lada sunroof. I still haven't summoned the arsedness to sort this out.

I have paint rubbed where there appear to be half-inch gaps. The front doors clip the tub on opening, when they were nowhere near before painting.

I have it on long-suffering, tear-streaked advice (try the Cobra boys - those long fronts and inset bonnets) that whatever you bloody do, the panels will move for years at least, if they ever stop.

Do the best you can.
Its all you can do.
No two are the same.
I could cry sometimes.
I really could.
But it goes like sh*t off a shiny shovel
And sticks like s*it to a blanket.
Sod the GRP, who cares.

Happy building.
Arthur.

[David May]

Absolutely agree with you Arthur. If you want a pretty body (!)forget GRP and get a panel beater! And in case you feel the urge to be neat and tidy, look very closely at a real Stratos! Talk about panel gaps!

[stableblock]

......so the answer is to take years to build the thing so all the panels stop moving. At least I've done something right first time!

Peter

[Sando]

:D :D :D

[chris.richard]

Sailing dinghies are made of the same stuff, and the same thickness, but they don't move. The difference is the plywood framing employed inside - could be a remedy for doors and possibly boot lids.

[David May]

The bootlid is a particularly bad case as any flat panel is inherently unstable (even with a thin lip.) It's no coincidence that cars are full of curves and seams! I stopped mine before it happened by moulding in some plywood ribs underneath, but I still wish I had fitted the twin catches I was toying with.

I'm afraid there's little hope in the long-slow-build theory - it all starts flexing when you heat it up and bang it about...

[guy mayers]

The bootlid is a particularly bad case

Agreed but some are worse than others. The best ones I've seen are the replacement aluminium ones made by Geoff Turton. He also did some ally louvres for Nicos yellow car. Expensive.

I think half the trick with these panels is not stressing them. If the louvres are put in under compression they will warp. Similarly, if the headlamp mounting bracket is put in under tension it will cause dips on the top of the nose panel the first time the car gets hot. Doors just seem to have a mind of their own! I can't remember the last one I didn't see with scratches from the lock catching!

Guy

[stewart]

Oh, I can relate to those dips in the top of the nose panel...##@@## and sorry Peter long build time doesn't make one whit of difference in my experience.

It's all about character....

[CorseChris]

I had all the panel gaps looking pretty darn good on my car last year. Then it went to paint......Most annoying one (so far) is the rear body section - the top left corner now sticks up above the roof line and is quite obvious without the spoiler on.

Can't vouch for the doors as I still have to align them again...but I'm not that optimistic it has to be said.

I don't know if it'll help much in the long term, but I bonded a doubler into my bootlid. I made sure the lid had a curve on it at the time - idea being that curve will keep the corners tight.

[Chris J]

The alloy boot lid on my blue car was made by Graham Bates. The fibreglass cross brace from the original boot lid was bonded into the alloy lid.

[Arthur]

I like the Yachting theory.

Just to keep it historically Kosher, I think we should research very carefully whether or not Lancia ever intended to clinker-build the bodywork.
Certainly worth thinking about, especially considering the car's propensity to accumulate water.

Next consortium project - how about an SEC members-only wailing wall for frustrated builders? (in slighlty warped GRP perhaps).

All the best,
Arthur.

[chris.richard]

Arthur, I went through Runcorn on a train twice this week. Couldn't see any sign of your boat though. :confused:

[John]

Panel gaps are not a problem on a dinghy are they?
I suppose they are if you don't want to get your feet wet....

[Sptwoman]

Is there a certain technique to manipulating GRP to fit the correct profiles using heat? I'm fitting the rear panel and am following Gerry's article, using the correct reference line. The gaps are now good but the issue is that the profiles are out as if the thing has drooped. Just need to pull it outwards both sides a bit to fit.
What type of heater is recommended?
How much heat?
Technique???
It's that or 5 Kg of filler :mad:

[strat6v]

Body panel locating kit.

[Chris J]

Here's some photos of a locating device for a round arch group 4 rear end.

It's Terry Bunn's car, so I'm guessing they were made by Graham Bates.

[Chris J]

and again...

[Chris J]

another view...

[Chris J]

last one.

I've some of the rear catches and other bits of detail if anyone's interested?

[Sptwoman]

Chris, You have a PM.
Gerry has mentioned that the original cars also had small screws with rubber bits on their heads, same as used for x19 headlamp stops, to " jack body panels" into alignment. Does anyone have any pics??

[strat6v]

Three tabs on the top cage tube in the engine bay. Each take a rubber headed bolt which once adjusted to the correct heights line up the rear section with the tub. You can also fit one each side by the fuel caps. You will still need a body alignment kit to stop the panels moving around. I made my own for the rear arches and have a set from grumpy on the front.
Do my best to email some pics but take a close look at my rear as shown in the last sec newsletter :p If you look along the roof line and by the tank filler areas you will see the bolts plus there are alignment plates set in the arch section of the tub. Oh, the bolts in the top are stainless m6 with push on rubber caps from thema boot lid hinges.

John.

[Chris J]

Oh, the bolts in the top are stainless m6 with push on rubber caps from thema boot lid hinges.

John.

Another trick is to use caliper bleed nipple rubber dust covers on top of the bolt heads. 'Seen on David Jowsey's Allora. I can't claim it as my idea.

[Chris J]

Allen asked for the rear catch photos too (I think?). Anyhow, here they are:

[Chris J]

2nd photograph:

[Chris J]

and another one:

[Chris J]

Last photograph:

[Sptwoman]

Thanks Chris, I'll save the pics for phase 2.

I've looked through issue 70 of the news letter and can't find any pics of John's rear end he mentioned. Am I missing something? It's the hard copy as I'm missing the CD version.

[mudhut]

Crikey Chris - you have more pics of my car than I do. Ah, I suppose you did have it longer than I have had it!

[strat6v]

apologies Allen, thought it would have showed but you are correct. Pm me your email again and i will go out and take some pics.

John.

[Chris J]

Crikey Chris - you have more pics of my car than I do. Ah, I suppose you did have it longer than I have had it!

Peter, I took those at Keith's house before it headed far south!

I needed them for reference. When I looked at the car at that time it was surprising all the details on it that I'd forgotten. Sloping bulkhead for one.

There are some others of the interior trim, chassis leg panels, headlining etc.

[Shaun II]

A quick picie or the headlining would be interesting, I've never thought to look at that bit before.

[mudhut]

Chris - do you have a pic of the headlining too? If not I'll get out and do some tomorrow. Rather nice it is too - so much so that I'd hesitate to fit an air vent.

[Chris J]

Peter

Terry didn't want to mess up a nicely trimmed roof by fitting an air scoop either. It's not worth the hassle really is it? I don't think it fits in with the cool colour and road car look? I used one of those window tube air intakes on hot days. They work really well.

I have some good photos of the roof trimming, I'll put them on later today.

[Chris J]

Here's the headlining:

[Chris J]

Another one of the headlining:

[Chris J]

This is taken from a similar position to the last but pointing at the top corner of the nearside a post/sun visor area.

[Chris J]

'Just one point regarding the sun visors. When they're in the 'down' position you can't see where you're going!!

[mudhut]

'Just one point regarding the sun visors. When they're in the 'down' position you can't see where you're going!!

Absolutely true but at least you aren't dazzled as you crash.

More seriously, I can make use of them with difficulty as I think I'm a bit shorter than you. Lowering the seat would help considerably but looks to be tricky.

[Chris J]

I'm only 5'7"ish. I seem to fit Italian Cars anyhow!

'Trouble with lowering the seat Peter, is that you'll have an even worse view over brows in the road. You can't win?!

[mudhut]

I'm only 5'7"ish.


Ah well that's that then - I'm 5' 10".