clutch problems

[DaveAk]

Hello to everyone using the forum, I would like to introduce myself as a new member before asking for people's help.
I built a transformer stratos replica from 1989-91, and enjoyed using it as a second car for several years, then got the bug to convert to V6 power!

I am coming to the end of a very lengthy conversion from Lancia twin cam to alfa V6 (4 years).

The car is running great thanks to a lot of hard work by Chris Smith, the problem is I can only select gears when the engine is turned off. I fitted a complete new clutch assembly before installing the engine.

I am using the standard X19 clutch master cylinder (new) and the 164 slave cylinder also new.

It seems as if the clutch is almost engaged when the pedal is fully depressed.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this, it is now starting to hold me up I resign myself to missing out on another summer without driving the car.

[rutthenut]

Originally posted by DaveAk
I am using the standard X19 clutch master cylinder (new) and the 164 slave cylinder also new.

It seems as if the clutch is almost engaged when the pedal is fully depressed.

Has anyone else experienced anything like this, it is now starting to hold me up


I found that on my car the clutch did not disengage as much or as well as I would have liked, with the same hydraulic components.

In my case I chose a simple solution and that was to lengthen the pushrod that comes out from the Alfa slave cylinder. There seemed to be an amount of 'slack' in this area, which translated to wasted travel at the pedal end.

I replaced the standard item with an a slightly longer alternative that I made up from a (smooth) section of steel coach bolt. Round off both ends for where it works against the piston and the clutch release lever and see how you get on. No need to play with the hydraulics either, just unbolt the slave cylinder, replace the rod, bolt things up again and see how it works.

A correct part should have a machined slot for the rubber cover to be held in the correct place, but that doesn't affect the actual operation.

As for the length, I cannot tell what I used (and don't know if I've written it down anywhere), but I worked out the desired length by a bit of 'guesstimation' in determining the amount of free play, which you may also work out when removing the slave cylinder and its mounting bracket.

Only other thought on your clutch problems is if you have skimmed the flywheel in any way or used different clutch parts. I had done this on my car and presumed that may have led to different amounts of free-play in the mechanism.

I'm not sure if anyone else has experienced these problems, which is why I assume it was my specific installation that was at fault. If you do find this longer pushrod is needed, do post the overall length here in case others want to give it a try.

If this is a more common problem, I'll let Gerry know that maybe a new pushrod should be included in the installation kit for the V6...


Another tweak on the Alfa installation can be to put an external spring onto the clutch release arm lever, so helping the slave cylinder to return to its normal position more quickly/easily. If you have larger bore pipework for the clutch hydraulics then this is less likely to matter, but it's an easy and cheap add-on with no harm if it's not really needed.


A further tweak to get the absolute maximum pedal travel on the Hawk assembly can be to modify the pedal itself. Actually, just the base of the pedal 'arm', behind the pedal surface, where it meets the bulkhead (or carpet, if you have some there - maybe clear that area too if the pedal meets it).

This was described in an early SRC newsletter for hydraulic clutch conversions using MonteCarlo parts on Beta/VX engines. Essentially, you can just cut a small (half-inch) slot in the back of the pedal arm at its lowest point, then fold in the tubular walls at the end to give an angled face. Alternatively, you could just grind off that part of the arm.

You could get a tiny bit more pedal travel from the system with this sort of modification and if your system is marginal then maybe this will make the difference (I didn't go this route at all). It is also possible to modify the master cylinder mounting holes to try and remove any slack at the master pushrod area too, or to modify the X1/9 pushrod for a slightly longer length. Again, only if you need to.

All of these measures can be considered as ways of increasing the amount of travel onto the clutch release arm, which would presumably help to fix your problem of incomplete clutch disengagement.

Oh, in case you hadn't found out already, the slave cylinder end is much more easy to work with...

... resign myself to missing out on another summer without driving the car.

No, don't give up too soon, you don't want to wait forever!

[DaveAk]

Thanks for your reply John, You have certainly given me much to think about, and to try out, to get my clutch problem sorted.

I will forward any modifications on to the forum.

Best wishes

Dave Atkinson

[chris.richard]

Dave, which worked for you? I'm approaching that stage and trying to plan the work, so your experiences would be helpful.

[David May]

I too had a similar problem after heavily skimming the flywheel, which I fixed by tapping the end of the release arm and screwing in a threaded cup (a turned down bolt) to accept the push-rod.
Funnily enough it seemed to fix itself later when I took the lot out to change the crankshaft oil seal.

Dave May

[kens]

Also, it should be noted that there are two type of clutch mechanisms on the 164. One version pushes the pressure plate to release the clutch, 164S and 24V models pull on the pressure plate to release. I suspect that both clutch types provide inadequate travel with an X19 master.

The pull type clutch slave cylinder points to the left side of the engine while the push type points to the right side. It would be helpful if anyone had this work without modification to identify the clutch type.

[Stratos]

Although, as Ken states, there are 2 types, they both use the same slave cylinder - it's just the bracket that holds the slave cylinder, and the way that the Clutch Arm pivot inside the bellhousing, which is different.

[chris.richard]

Has anyone got the bore / stroke dimensions of the 164's master that goes with the slave? Then we could calculate the swept volume required to adequately activate the slave .