Harnesses

[chris.richard]

4-point, 4-point with crutch strap, 6 point - any opinions or warnings out there?
I take it we use the Caterham or single seater style?

[mogul_x]

Guess it depends on your intentions regarding competition. You'll want to pick something that conforms to whatever rules you will be racing under, if that is your intention.

I've been told that 5 and 6 point harnesses are somewhat fiddly to install, as there is no mounting point for the crutch strap(s) on the Hawk. You'll need to sort that out yourself to make sure everything clears the seat.

I opted for a 4-point harness, as my car is primarily for road use. I'd recommend against using Sparco Clubman harnesses, as the shoulder straps are much too long for a 2-seater. I haven't found a set of 2" belts that fit properly, so I'd be interested in hearing anyone's suggestions.

Safety regulations here in Pennsylvania require a pushbutton release on the harness buckle, so camlock style harnesses are not suitable for my needs.

[SUSIT]

6 point are a must for me for competition in a stratos, However the floor in the Allora is 2.5mm thick steel not alloy

[CorseChris]

I bought Westfield style 4 points for mine (for road use). They are E marked so OK for SVA. Code SPT422W from Demon Thieves. They have a conventional button latch like an inertia reel belt rather than the aircraft buckle. Mounting points on the Corse are one each side of the seat, low down, two on the cross member behind your shoulder, so spot on for these. The Westfield type have bolt-on plates for the lap strap and shackles for the shoulder straps. IIRC, the Caterham type have bolt on plates for all 4 straps but are otherwise the same. They have nice short shoulder straps and reverse adjusters that are easy to get at in the more snug cockpit....

These might suit your needs Scott.

[mogul_x]

Chris,

Those Westfield style harnesses sound like they'd do the job for me - but I can't seem to find them.

Um... am I correct in assuming that "Demon Thieves" is a euphamism for Demon Tweeks? I tried entering that product code on Demon Tweeks website, and it did not bring up any matches.

Are the harnesses you ordered branded Willans? There are a few harnesses listed under "Caterham / Westfield", and the Willans product description most closely matches yours.

[CorseChris]

Hi Scott,

Demon Thieves (Tweeks)...noted for profit-optimised pricing policy.....

They are indeed Willans - not sure why the code failed, but to be fair, I ordered them quite a while back by phone and they have expanded their website quite a lot recently.

Just had a quick look - the new code (for black) is SBRSPT422WBK so the core product is the same. They come with all the bolts as well. They are plastered with approval marks of all sorts so should satisfy your regualtory bodies hopefully.

Depending on which seats you have and where the back comes in relation to the rear bulkhead, and where the harness slots are in relation to the fixings on the car (what a mouthful!) you may need to 'adjust' things to get the whole lot to fit - I had to slightly skew my seats to get the harness slots to line up with the fixing points on the car. Only slight, but embarrassing if you don't do it. :( As it happens, the skew ever so slightly improved the comfort in terms of wheel & pedal offsets. YMMV :)

[Sando]

Hiya
4 point single seater type for me. Fit fine. The Sabelt ones I went for were the clip on type and come with the eyes, so straight forward fit for the Hawk.
Rabster :cool:

PS were fine for SVA - no questions about the buckle.

Demon squeeks (http://www.demon-tweeks.com/catalogue/product_detail.asp?PCODE=SAB901119&GRP=MC023&PGRP=MP016&CLS=MSPORT&code=SAB904119&from=search)

[Arthur]

I used Willans 6-points from Demon Tweeks.
I think (this was a while ago) they were the "Silverstone" pattern single-seater 6-points. They have FIA approval.

Immediate problem - no room to put eye bolts in the sides of the CorseI and still get the seats in. This means using the flat plates on the belt ends, and bolting them down. Second problem, you only get one type of belt end, so the flat plates can't be used with the eyes on the rear bulkhead, and using bolts means the plate lies flat at 90 degrees to the direction of pull.
So I got round this using climbing Karabiners to attach the flat plates to the rear bulkhead eyes. These cost about a tenner a go, and the load rating (certificated and stamped) is well in excess of SVA, and well sane for a cometition off (about 4 tons per Karabiner when closed, depending on Karabiner). Also was accepted by SVA without a murmer. (I now use one as an engine crane hook).
(Speaking of which, for SVA I think the total load restraint required for your belts is 3/4 ton per seat, split equally among the mounting points. No way you'd compete or even track-day with this kind of rating, so any sensible competition set-up will be fine as far as load capability is concerned.)

On the other hand, I wouldn't necessarily use Willans belts again, simply because the adjusters on the lap belts are bloody awkward. They need setting to length, then bolting down, and are then pretty much non-adjustable other than for a seat fitting.

The anti-submarine straps are attached to the same bolt as the lap belts, adjustment is the same.

Shoulder strap adjusters are fine, and don't slip at all.
Centre buckle is turn-type.

Summary - Willans are good belts.
Adjustment is a bugger on these single-seater belts. May not be a problem.
Karabiners can make life easier, legally.
You need single-seater pattern belts with the rear bulkhead right behind the seat.
Anti-submarine straps can happily be mounted to the same points as the lap straps.

TTFN
Arthur.

[chris.richard]

Anybody any experience of Schroth harnesses?

[John]

Chris,
no, but they even sound uncomfortable!

[Sando]

Anybody any experience of Schroth harnesses?

Isn't that a surgical support? :D

[Swamprat33]

what is a Schroth, and why does it need a harness - is it dangerous??

[chris.richard]

problem, you only get one type of belt end, so the flat plates can't be used with the eyes on the rear bulkhead, and using bolts means the plate lies flat at 90 degrees to the direction of pull.
So I got round this using climbing Karabiners to attach the flat plates to the rear bulkhead eyes. These cost about a tenner a go, and the load rating (certificated and stamped) is well in excess of SVA, and well sane for a cometition off (about 4 tons per Karabiner when closed, depending on Karabiner). Also was accepted by SVA without a murmer. (I now use one as an engine crane hook).

Summary - Willans are good belts.
Adjustment is a bugger on these single-seater belts. May not be a problem.
Karabiners can make life easier, legally.
You need single-seater pattern belts with the rear bulkhead right behind the seat.
Anti-submarine straps can happily be mounted to the same points as the lap straps.


Anybody know if the karabiner approach would pass muster for competition use? My seats and harnesses have arrived ( :) :) ), but I was expecting the ends to be shackles, coz that's what the piccy showed and they didn't say different. Apparently all single seater harnesses just have bolt on plates. Bolt ons useable for the lower 4 mountings, but no use for shoulder straps as Arthur says. The westfield ones somebody said had shackles at the top and bolt plates at the bottom, but they're only 4 point. Don't know if Demon Thieves will be keen to swap as I think they're made to order. Bollox! :confused:

[alfagene]

Racers Wholesale in the US sell a snaphook harness end that will work with eye for mounting. The link to the page is http://www.racerwholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RW&Category_Code=Harness+Mounting+Hardware
I have not seen a Stratos so I do not know about the actual harness mounting but based upon the discriptions in the posts it looks like these might work for you.

Gene Brown

[chris.richard]

I must be able to get those in the UK. If I can use these and not invalidate the FIA recognition, that's the way to go!

The holes in the bolt plates are 9mm ( 3/8) while the threads for the eyebolts are ? 7/16.

[Arthur]

I haven't tried to "RAC" the Karabiners, but they do come stamped, and with a test certificate, they can be purchased as snap-lock or as screw-lock, and when you think of their designed intention, they seemed like a damn good idea to me.

regards
Arthur.

[chris.richard]

[QUOTE=chris.richard]I must be able to get those in the UK. If I can use these and not invalidate the FIA recognition, that's the way to go!
QUOTE]
Only on the crutch straps- the other plates are sewn into the haarness, so can't be changed. :(

[JohnB_SPY8808053]

I may have a spare set of those snap-on plates. I'll look this weekend and let you know.

John B.

[Sptwoman]

Is it recommended to go for the single seater harness or is there enough adjustment in a saloon harness to lose the added length of the rear straps? Cut and restitch?? :rolleyes:

[chris.richard]

Speak to TRS, the will do you a custom at a reasonable price. I returned them a pair of SS harnesses and they swapped them for/modded them to (don't know which) SS length snap on straps for £15 each. (SS harnesses are all bolt-in fitting)

[strat6v]

Choose your seats first. some cars fair better with a 3" shoulder and 2" lap strap harness. Rotary buckle type belts are easier to put on and take off ;) You don't need to be double jointed, just a quick flip of each shoulder strap instead of contorting your arms here, there and everywhere. Its even worse when you have a passenger! I have the rotary buckle Sabelt harnesses, as above. Can't remember if it was the westfield or caterham version, its the one with snap hooks on the shoulder straps. Also have 't' type crutch straps too, just thought the single strap version could be more damaging to the anatomy. Dread to think for female passengers :eek: :D :D

[chris.richard]

3" lap straps are not a good idea - they are difficult to tighten properly when they go round corners, as they do going from our sill mounts through the side holes of the seat. 2" lap, 3" shoulder is the best option.

[vindi49]

I've got a set of Willans 2" lap, 2" shoulder harnesses in my current kit car (vindicator, 7 type) and a set of Schroth 2" lap, 3" shoulder harnesses in my road car. Schroth are the company that made the first Hans devices, and are way up at the quality end of the market.
Russell