Sewing thread...

[CorseChris]

Well, it's been a bit quiet on here lately, and as I have just started page 1 of 'How to trim your kit car', a colleague of mine (who finds the sight of me sat in front of a sewing machine in my lunchbreak highly amusing...) suggested I start a new thread....on sewing.

(Sewing, thread....get it?? :D )

So, anyhoo, yesterday I did my very first French seam....and it turned out remarkably well all things considered. Just need to practice (a lot) and then I can think about starting to make the trim for real. As the car is away being painted (at last...), I only have the dash & instrument binnacle to work on at the moment. Sadly, the binnacle is probably the hardest part to do so I think I'll do the dash first....

I did think about doing upper surfaces in charcoal and lower ones in black, but the concensus seems to be that it'll just look like I didn't order enough of one colour (which isn't true - I seem to have enough material to trim a couple of stretch limos...) ......thoughts and polite suggestions welcomed :)

[Swamprat33]

what is a French seam. This seems very strange to me....

[CorseChris]

A most seemly seam it is indeed..... My Ladybird Book of Car trimming tells me that if I can do a French seam and a Flat-fell seam then I can trim an entire car....allegedly....

(is this silly enough yet or should we keep going??)

[Marmott]

OK, sew where are we going here?
Trim, what is this, if we answer this we can decide if its useful.
Its heavy!
Most will burn

lost interest, dont want it , dont understand and is decidedly wussy

Bare alluminium is where its at , with the odd bit of roll cage padding.
Rallying with trim , now thats a new concept,
it would reduce the noise, maybe insulate from the heat.

No , I'll do without and then I don't need to learn about French dressing or such

Best of luck Chris
Gary

[CorseChris]

:D

Well, another lunchtime and another few feet of practice seams....

[Chris J]

Chris

What are you trimming the dash with?, and what type of dash is it?

[CorseChris]

Hi Chris,

I shall mostly be using.....

...Alcantara (on top of standard 'scrim' foam). Got the Alcantara & foam from M&M (along with some door & boot seals). Mark is a helpful chappie and no mistake!

It's a Hawk dash & binnacle as it happens. Fits the Corse with a bit of persuasion. Using it because it came with my Pile-O-Shite (tm), more than any other reason, but I think I prefer the look of the Hawk/original one anyway.

[Andrew Way]

It's a Hawk dash & binnacle as it happens. Fits the Corse with a bit of persuasion.

It must have been designed for the Corse rather than the Hawk then ;)

Who are M&M? I've been on the hunt for Alcantara for a while without much success (well, I gave up when a boat trimming company quoted £50/m).

[CorseChris]

Hi Andrew,

When I say 'persuade' I mean using and angle-grinder and a MIG welder.........I persuaded the car to fit the dash really.

...sorry, £50/m is the going rate for this fake (sorry, replica) suede :( I had some with my collection that is quite thin and not very deep nap. The stuff I bought from M&M is much thicker, feels really nice to the touch and is way more 'stretchy' so should be easier to apply. It's a 3 layer cloth with the middle layer being very thin foam.

M&M are listed in the Suppliers forum I think...

[chris.richard]

Bare alluminium is where its at , with the odd bit of roll cage padding.
Rallying with trim , now thats a new concept,


Even the works cars had headlinings :p

[David May]

Yes, even mine's got a headlining, but it's only there to soften the blow when it meets the head or helmet! I don't consider it decoration...
I wish I could boast lots of bare aluminium - I see mostly (rusting) steel from where I sit...

[Chris J]

'Woolies' are doing alcantara now. I don't know what the quality is like though.

On my blue car there was only a line of stitching on the main dash, none at all on the binacle, if I remember right.

[Swamprat33]

I've just blagged a load of Carbon Fibre from a mate of mine who works for the Jaguar F1 team. Plan to make up a center console some time.

[Sando]

Not being of the sewing persuasion :eek:
Chris Smith pointed me to Martyn Beddow at Auto Interiors near Hinkley in Liecs. http://www.auto-interiors.org They do the Noble interiors amongst all sorts and are next door to the Noble workshops. I'd seen photos of their work on the orange car Chris did that went to America (see gallery somewhere I think.

They had about 25 different colours of Alcantara and did an absolutely brilliant job of my dash. It does cost at least £50+ per metre and I think it came to about £250 all in to cover the dash and binnicle. Well worth it I think, as I couldn't have done as good a job and it's staring you in the face every time you get in the car! This is the only job on my car that has been 'farmed out' (so far!!)

Cheers
Rob

[CorseChris]

Well, I have done the dash now and almost finished the binnacle. I'm quite certain it's not up to professional standards, but I'm a picky sod, and I'm pretty happy with it. It's nothing fancy, just plain black Alcantara with French seams in all the right places (Oh la la...). I'll crack on with it for now, get the car finished and on the road, and see how it stands up to daily scrutiny.

I was going to get the door panels 'flocked' but decided the extra thickness of material would be a better idea, so they are next on the list. Could be tricky......

Rob, £250 doesn't sound too painful, but it's easy to see how this could soon become £1000 - £1500 to do a full interior. Not that there is much of one on a Strat. I've probably spent about £350 on materials which should do the whole car with some (lots of certain items) left over.

[CorseChris]

The finished article.....

[John]

Chris,
tell us you don't take the dash binnacle to bed with you.....

[chris.richard]

The finished article.....

The airbag's inflated wrongly, Chris

[David May]

What's that instrument on the RHS with 3 hands? Does it wake you up too?

[CorseChris]

John - No it doesn't share the bed with me (usually)...but it does have exclusive use of one of the spare beds. The other is home to the seats.....

Chris - Damn - more work needed. I thought the soft fluffy quilt would make the SVA man happy as well...

Dave - Yep, 06:00 every morning, plays a recording of a Stratos ripping through the Welsh forests......


:)

[John]

Chris,
in my forlorn efforts to be humorous, I did neglect to say that it does look brilliant. Credit where credit is due. Are you now accepting commisions?

[CorseChris]

:) Most kind... It did turn out better than I could realisitically hoped for, given I've never done anything like it before. Thanks again to Gerry Manalo for encouraging me to have a go at it, for lending me his dash templates, and a copy of some vital pages from a book on the subject.

Commisions??? Mm, probably not, as it took me a very long time...although I suppose I'd speed up with practice.. I think I'll leave it to the experts.....

[stableblock]

Looks like a really nice job!

what was the book called? author too?

Thanks

[CorseChris]

All these nice compliments....it'll go to my head you know :)

Book & author - don't know of the top of my head but I'll check tonight. It was a specialist automotive trim book, not a generic sewing one, so had some real top tips. It's an american book, and in the section I have, all the references are to big industrial sewing machines, but I bought a pre-enjoyed Huskvarna Viking of late 70's vintage and it did the job a treat. It's got a low-speed gear that runs about 1/5th normal that was fantastic for doing the very tricky tight corners.

I've yet to do the carpets, but I don't expect that will be too tricky as I plan on keeping things simple......

[Sando]

Top job Chris.
Will the Mrs now be getting you to make up sets of curtains and other sewing jobs for the house?
:)

[CorseChris]

Rob, ...she can ask......

Peter, I think the book is called Automotive Upholstery Handbook by Don Taylor. Amazon sell it.

[stableblock]

Thanks Chris

[Chris J]

I thought I'd bring this one back rather than start a new one.

I just need a bit of advice from anyone that's trimmed a Stradale dash.

I'm having the Stradale dash trimmed. Much earlier than I'd planned, but there you go.

I'll need to get all the mounting holes into the dash (especially the ones you can easily see along the top of the dash and base of the windscreen) and binnacle won't I? Including the two large round holes for the dash to windscreen demister vents?

When the dash is trimmed, is it a case of finding the mounting holes and poking the fasters through, or is it best to punch a hole with something? I'm planning to use M4 fasteners into captive nuts and cup washers.

I'm guessing it isn't a good idea to have the round dash vents too tight in their holes to allow for the thickness of the dash covering?

[guy mayers]

Hi Chris, I recommend that you get the dash fitted into the car with the binnacle attached before you get it all trimmed. That way you know it's a bolt in job when it comes back. If you are using the Ferrari type vents they have a flange that covers the top surface of the dash and cover the trim so there is no need to return the trim under the panel. And don't think you'll be able to remove the dash once the screen is in place! The fixing screws will foul the inner surface of the screen.
Guy

[armourerdoug]

nice trim job!
I have just re-fitted my dash and binn' cut the holes for the de mist vents then I tried plastic primer and a stunning gloss black acrylic spray paint, it went on like a dream, am building to a NO budget so I think trim is out for me for a while :( oh well , I can dream and droowel at everybody elses nice trim,,,,mumbel mumble grumble! :D

Doug

[chris.richard]

nice trim job!
a stunning gloss black acrylic spray paint,

I understood that reflections from the dash were a problem, and a proper non-reflective coating like flock or alcantara was required. :confused: I did a DIY flock on mine - not concourse, but at least non-reflective.

[armourerdoug]

there is a flocking company near my house that does all the lotus interiors, so will try to get mine done there at some point

Doug

[Chris J]

Doug

It's like Guy says. Once the screen is in place, your only chance to do something with the covering of the dashboard has gone.

It's the thing you see most, so it's worth making a good job of it?

Guy

Yes, I'm using the Ferrari vents, so I just make them fit tight(ish) into the fibreglass?

[guy mayers]

Hi Chris, they don't need to be tight. In fact that can be a disadvantage as squeezing the base into the hole in the dash can distort it and this will stop the upper half of the vent rotating easily. So long as there is sufficient fibreglass to screw the vents to it will work, the trim underneath the vent will seal any gaps there might be.
Whilst we are on the subject of ventilation it's really important to have a strong flow of air onto the screen so make sure that the ducting to the vents is airtight and not likely to shake free. It's better to have solid ducting than the springy tube type in my experience. Also take into account the efficiency of the fan! The propeller blade types don't give enough flow. Try to get a snail type fan to fit, it will shift much more air.
Guy

[armourerdoug]

thanks guys, am going to do it before, dont worry, I dont even have a windscreen to put in! mine was broken before I bought the car. I will have it flocked first, sydicate's flocked interior was stunning!, I have got a flock gun made by the company who do the lotus dash's so may do it myself if I can get the correct adhesive from them too!

cant help but droowel over the stitched versions though!!

Doug

[philfingers]

Doug- Syndicate's car to my knowledge is alcantara. It belonged to a friend of mine before and the story was it was trimmed by a guy who trimmed GT40 rep's usually. I saw it the other day and it seems to have faded somewhat. What colour it was originally I have no idea, it does look good tho, no doubt. As others have said when you driving it's what you see most!

[rutthenut]

Gloss paint? I'd recommend a matt finish, as you will get reflections in the windscreen from any shiny dash panels...

J.R.

[guy mayers]

I'll second Johns comments! The Gp4 dashes were painted matt black for this reason.
If you need a flock sprayer I'll dig out the number for a company in Wolverhampton I used more than a few years ago to do my door panels. These have stood up very well with only the upper edger of the bins showing wear. The company does the Jaguar glove boxes and can do almost any colour so long as they have a big enough batch. Black and green ensures a quick turnaround and I seem to recall they liked cash....
Guy

[armourerdoug]

Ok boys and girls my last explination, wanted to put some paint on the dash so it diddnt look like the piece of fibreglass crap that it is, and, so painted it with an amzingly easy to use paint, I AM going to flock it! before I buy a windscreen, which is probably one of the last things I will do, as for sydicates, I thought he told me it was flocked, my mistake I guess, never been too good with my memory! he he
Guy, thanks mate but the compant I know is 2 miles from me so will use them I think

If any of you ARE painting any pats gloss, the paint I used ROCKS!!!

Ta
Doug

[Chris J]

I'm just offering up the Stradale dash for the first time.

Is it only fastened in with the fasteners along the line of the bottom of the screen?

It looks as if I need to removed some of the dash where it fits around the roll cage legs on either side. Is that usually the case? Otherwise it won't come far enough forwards to be close to the windscreen base?

Looks like I might have to remove a tiny bit where the dash is close to the steering column mounting bracket. Is that normal too?

[strat6v]

Chris,

My dash sides fitted straight up between the cage and f/glass door shut. A bit needed trimming around the column mount.

[Chris J]

Thanks John.

Something's not quite right then?

What about the fasteners?

[strat6v]

Just around the screen base, no more supports as yet.

[chris.richard]

Are you both talking about the same manufacturer?

[strat6v]

Yes. Same chassis too i think.

[strat6v]

CJ,

I have a gap between the screen base and front edge of the dash moulding of about 10-12mm. i was just going to stick some trim on it to tidy it up.

[Chris J]

John

I was aiming to get it closer than that. More like 2 to 4mm. Unless I'm trying to do something that's not possible?

I HAVE noticed that the driver's side roll cage leg on mine isn't quite as 'snug' a fit to the fibreglass 'A' pillar as the passenger side. I think if I take a little bit off the edge of the dash it'll go in fine.

Chris R.
John's is a Safety Devices I think. Mine's a Spyder. Not that it makes any difference. Well I doubt it does? No, we're not comparing Corse with Hawk without knowing!

[Chris J]

CJ,

I have a gap between the screen base and front edge of the dash moulding of about 10-12mm. i was just going to stick some trim on it to tidy it up.


This is more or less as close as I can get it too. Well, at the driver's side at least. It fits closer at the passenger side, but I'd better make it the same at both sides. (See attached photos of how it 'fits' at the moment.) The first one shows how close to the windscreen it is on the passenger side and not on the driver's side.

I'm wondering whether to trim a bit of the edge of the dash to make it perfectly parallel with the bottom of the screen?

The thing is, is a 10 to 12mm gap the norm?

Really I'm stuck with this amount of gap, but I don't know whether to pull the passenger side back a touch or trim the leading edge of the dash to balance it up?

[Chris J]

Here's another:

[Chris J]

'Just looking at a couple of other dashboards to see how close the edge of the dash is to the base of the screen.

Here's Sando's first, but the fasteners aren't in so I'm not sure about that one?

[Chris J]

Here's another. I think this one's Jeff Davidson's.

You can see a captive quite near to where the base of the screen would be. That's a bit closer than I can manage?

[chris.richard]

Remember that this is not so easily seen once the screen is in - the gap might not be noticeable? It is at the far side of the dash (obviusly), and from outside you're seeing it through the screen. I'll try & get pics of mine later.

[CorseChris]

Does the Hawk screen have a black border printed on? The COrse one does and this covers quite a decent area of bond-line....which also obscures this area as well.

[strat6v]

Chris,

Let the sides of the dash sit in the place it should, support it so the crescent shaped screen area sits correctly, then mark an even line all the way round. trim the dash moulding to that line. When you come to trim time either paint the area that shows a similar colour as your trim or, stick a strip of trim material all the way round, just lapping over on to the return that the screen bonds to. :)

[chris.richard]

I didn't fit mine, so I don't know what trimming was done.

[chris.richard]

right hand pillar base

[chris.richard]

left hand pillar base

[stableblock]

On mine (Hawk Midas chassis) the dash goes almost to the edge of the screen aperture. Only 3-4 mm gap at most.

[Sando]

....
Really I'm stuck with this amount of gap, but I don't know whether to pull the passenger side back a touch or trim the leading edge of the dash to balance it up?

Hi Chris
A bit of both I think. I cut back and slightly re shaped the corners around the cage to get mine in a little further. As John suggested, a little bit of whatever you trim the dash with glued on to the lip that the dash bolts to, will hide the the gap more. (and same trick on the pillars to if you need to) you can take this over the edge where the screen is going to be bonded. my gap was probably somewhere around 6-8mm in the end I would think.

If you are going to cover it all up it doesn't really matter too much about altering the corners or even extending the edge, so long as its all sanded flat ready for trimming.

Oh and the windscreen edge. The guy that fitted my screen used a black 'die' or etching primer all the way round the edge to help the mastic bond to the glass. This left a nice clean black edge that hides most of the edges all the way round anyway.

If you are passing on the way down to the Historic MS show next week you are welcome to come and have a goz at mine.

cheers
Rob

[Sando]

corners.. :)

[Sando]

and trimmed..... deceptive as the additional bit of covering you can see is going around the edge to where the screen bonds. A foam tape is put around the edge by the screen fitter to stop the mastic from coming into the car. This went on top of my bit of trim so that the bond to the body wasn't affected. If that makes sense?

[Chris J]

Thanks very much for the advice from the following: Chris S. Chris R. Sando, Peter and John H. I think I can carry on with this job with a bit more confidence.

The last photo from Rob of the dash without the binnacle says a lot. I've been discussing with Chris S. the need for a hole to be cut between dash and binnacle. I like the idea of trimming the 'gap' in the same material, I'll see it that's going to be possible.

I take the point about the added black edge to windscreen that tidies up the sight of anything that isn't 100% perfect in the screen bonding and dash edge area. Having the black as a standard part of the screen is a great idea on the current Corse screens (Chris S.). That's something that all modern cars have, now that all auto glass is bonded in?

I'd forgotten how the black edge looked on my old blue car. (see photo attached, sorry it was taken with one of those 'steam film' cameras) This has also reminded me that there is also some trim material between dash and screen on that car too. That tallies with what people have said on here.

Looking at the position of the dash captive in the photo of Jeff's car and also what Peter says does seem to suggest that it is easier to get the dash closer to the screen on later Hawks, but that's just a guess?

[b-w]

the black strip embedded onto modern windshield glass is there for the purpose of giving the sealant around the glass a rough surface to stick to-so i've read somewhere.
the fact that they make it black, though, i guess is to help surrounding trim to look even.

[strat6v]

Chris,

Both dash mouldings i have, have most of the area under the binnacle cut away so all the wiring etc is easy to get to. I'll try and attach a pic, otherwise it will be in my gallery.

[Chris J]

Once I've got to the end the fitting and trimming of the dash and binnacle, I'll try and right some sort of article. Just to guide anyone starting out on this job. Not to say that it's GOT to be done as I describe. Anything to save someone else from too much head scratching?